History of the ATD

[BenchBrawl]

Please stop claiming you started this. You weren't even in the first few draft attempts made before the first ATD. The ATD was in the mock draft board at the beginning.




The 2003 draft wasn't the first attempt, but it was the first to last through to the last pick. That thread was the continuation after the great restart (a mod moved all posts site wide to a single thread accidentally, so everything was lost). Luckily, we had just started the draft, so we didn't have to recreate more than a round or two of picks.

A legend returns ! When are you making your grand come back in the ATD? We would love to have you here next year.

Thank you for your explanations on the origins of the ATD. Do you remember who it was that came up with the idea?

As it is now you seem like both the father of the ATD, and the father of VsX, which is an awesome pioneering legacy.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Archive photo of the mod in question reporting it to the admins:

View attachment 387763

I'm sure if this happened we would experience some sort of renaissance in many cities and neighborhoods.

 

[tabness]

My first draft was last year. I signed up as a guy with like thirty posts and still managed to get two teams lol (I remember people being worried I'd flake out cause I didn't check every day and my posts were so low)

I've known about HF since like 2006 though. Those were the days it seemed like all online hockey talk was consolidating here at that time. No big social media either, was funny times with the main board and all the Crosby/Ovechkin arguments and the lounge. The draft used to be in the hockey video games forums I think? Starting since like 2010ish it doesn't seem the same.

I guess I had more of a life back then lol (still being in the Detroit area meant I had people to talk to in person about hockey) as basically all of my posting has been in the last few years, most of it being on the draft.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Here's a screenshot of Metroboards.com, which I found on Web Archive:

Not sure if this looks familiar to anyone else. This was the site I mentioned in my long post - I did my first ATD there with @Daryl Shilling. I tried clicking through a few of the forums to get a list of posts, but unfortunately none of those appear to have been saved.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

This thread intrigued me, so I'm continuing to dig up what I can about my first ATD:

I found a very old Word document on my computer - dated April 20th, 2005. It's a series of posts announcing my first 14 picks in that initial ATD. Each player had a brief (~250 word) profile that briefly outlined the player's style, a quick overview of the awards they won, some basic stats, and a few quotes about them. These profiles are elementary compared to what we have today, but quite impressive for the time.

I wish I could find my full roster, or at least the preliminary line-up. My fourteen picks in order were - Shore (12th pick overall), Hasek (13th), Lindsay (36th), Jagr (37th), Park (61st), Conacher (62nd), Boucher (84th), Denneny (85th), Stewart (108th), Seibert (109th), Apps (132nd), Keon (133rd), Gadsby (156th), and Joliat (157th). Even taking into account that this was a twelve-team draft, I got a ton of bargains.

I also found the names of the other eleven participants (excluding me): Bman, Daryl Shilling, Flyerfan, Gambit (the organizer), Gordfish, JB, Man Utd, Murphy, PDO, Red Racer, Rover. I previously mentioned that @Daryl Shilling had an excellent (and sadly forgotten website) about hockey stats and history. Fifteen years later, none of the other names jump out to me.

 

[overpass]

This thread intrigued me, so I'm continuing to dig up what I can about my first ATD:

I found a very old Word document on my computer - dated April 20th, 2005. It's a series of posts announcing my first 14 picks in that initial ATD. Each player had a brief (~250 word) profile that briefly outlined the player's style, a quick overview of the awards they won, some basic stats, and a few quotes about them. These profiles are elementary compared to what we have today, but quite impressive for the time.

I wish I could find my full roster, or at least the preliminary line-up. My fourteen picks in order were - Shore (12th pick overall), Hasek (13th), Lindsay (36th), Jagr (37th), Park (61st), Conacher (62nd), Boucher (84th), Denneny (85th), Stewart (108th), Seibert (109th), Apps (132nd), Keon (133rd), Gadsby (156th), and Joliat (157th). Even taking into account that this was a twelve-team draft, I got a ton of bargains.

I also found the names of the other eleven participants (excluding me): Bman, Daryl Shilling, Flyerfan, Gambit (the organizer), Gordfish, JB, Man Utd, Murphy, PDO, Red Racer, Rover. I previously mentioned that @Daryl Shilling had an excellent (and sadly forgotten website) about hockey stats and history. Fifteen years later, none of the other names jump out to me.

I remember Daryl Shilling’s website! That’s going way back.

 

[Johnny Engine]

This thread intrigued me, so I'm continuing to dig up what I can about my first ATD:

I found a very old Word document on my computer - dated April 20th, 2005. It's a series of posts announcing my first 14 picks in that initial ATD. Each player had a brief (~250 word) profile that briefly outlined the player's style, a quick overview of the awards they won, some basic stats, and a few quotes about them. These profiles are elementary compared to what we have today, but quite impressive for the time.

I wish I could find my full roster, or at least the preliminary line-up. My fourteen picks in order were - Shore (12th pick overall), Hasek (13th), Lindsay (36th), Jagr (37th), Park (61st), Conacher (62nd), Boucher (84th), Denneny (85th), Stewart (108th), Seibert (109th), Apps (132nd), Keon (133rd), Gadsby (156th), and Joliat (157th). Even taking into account that this was a twelve-team draft, I got a ton of bargains.

I also found the names of the other eleven participants (excluding me): Bman, Daryl Shilling, Flyerfan, Gambit (the organizer), Gordfish, JB, Man Utd, Murphy, PDO, Red Racer, Rover. I previously mentioned that @Daryl Shilling had an excellent (and sadly forgotten website) about hockey stats and history. Fifteen years later, none of the other names jump out to me.

By any chance, is PDO the individual who developed the commonly used shorthand model for “puck luck”? As I understand it, the model was named after someone’s screen name, and not “percentage driven outcomes” as commonly thought.

 

[Professor What]

Is there a reason that the first few drafts were numbered but they're named by year now?

 

[Hockey Outsider]

By any chance, is PDO the individual who developed the commonly used shorthand model for “puck luck”? As I understand it, the model was named after someone’s screen name, and not “percentage driven outcomes” as commonly thought.

That's a great question. I was wondering the same thing. Unfortunately I have no idea.

Is there a reason that the first few drafts were numbered but they're named by year now?

Originally the drafts ran twice a year (spring and fall) so naming them by the year wouldn't have made sense.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

This will be the last in a series of posts that are probably pretty self-indulgent...

It's amazing what you can find when you keep digging. The website that I mentioned before was the wrong one. (I'm fairly sure I posted there in the early 2000's, but who knows - in any event, that's not where the ATD was). The website with my first all-time draft was the aptly-named www.hockeyforum.com - still online, but with very little activity over the past decade.

This thread has the complete results of the spring 2005 ATD: Post Your Nominations for 2005 Post of the Year Here

I've already posted my first 14 picks. Apparently I rounded out my roster with Ted Kennedy (180th!), Bill Quackenbush (181st), Johnny Bower (204th), Butch Goring (205th), Doug Mohns (228th) and Doug Bentley (229th).

From what it looks like, the teams were split into two conferences. Posters (whether GM's or not) were asked to pick their four favourite teams in each conference. There wasn't any ranking - you either gave the team a vote or you didn't. I vaguely recall there being a team comparison thread, but I can't find it.

In the end, there were final standings for the twelve teams (vote for the 4 best teams bracket 2). Seven teams made the playoffs, and two teams (tied for 8th) were scheduled to do a wild-card matchup. From what I remember (and can see in this forum), no playoff round ever happened - so I suppose Murph was the winner.

My team was tied for 10th out of 12. Looking at my roster, it was almost certainly one of the top two or three teams (along with Daryl's). Sure, you can say I'm not being objective when I'm looking at my own team, but trust me - I'm not losing any sleep over an online draft from 16 years ago. The challenge was what I alluded to earlier. Daryl and I picked great pre-expansion players who were hugely underrated - but because everybody else in the draft didn't know very much about these players, our rosters weren't given the credit they deserved. I only had two players who were active after 1985 - that cost me. Daryl only had one.

I'm not at all suggesting that the voters were dishonest - just that they genuinely didn't know better. For example, they're not going to let Ted Kennedy drop to 180th, and then turn around and treat him like he's on par with Forsberg. (Maybe I could have persuaded them with a lengthy discussion period, but I don't think that happened). I'm thankful I found HFBoards soon after this.

 

[BenchBrawl]

This will be the last in a series of posts that are probably pretty self-indulgent...

This is the thread for it, fire away ! I find those posts interesting.

 

[Theokritos]

@Daryl Shilling had an excellent (and sadly forgotten website) about hockey stats and history

It's partially available through the web.archive: Hockey Project Rating

 

[Leaf Lander]

Please stop claiming you started this. You weren't even in the first few draft attempts made before the first ATD. The ATD was in the mock draft board at the beginning.




The 2003 draft wasn't the first attempt, but it was the first to last through to the last pick. That thread was the continuation after the great restart (a mod moved all posts site wide to a single thread accidentally, so everything was lost). Luckily, we had just started the draft, so we didn't have to recreate more than a round or two of picks.

My old nick was deenumberone/ancient spiritguide/leafsdomain/ gilmours way

I was indeed part of that discussion
And I stil claim it was my idea.

Not to say other discussions were occurring without my knowledge anything is possible

Ps you sound like a grumpy old man now Brian jk

 

[BenchBrawl]

A post of mine from 2019; updated it with the 2020 results.

I checked which GMs made the Final Four each draft. Possibly some of them changed their username and I mistakenly count them as two separate GMs. If you see such a case please warn me so I can correct it.

Compiled in good faith.

ATD#6

Hockey Outsider vs. God Bless Canada
BM67 vs. The Lone Elvi

Hockey Outsider vs. BM67

Winner: Hockey Outsider

ATD#7

kruezer vs. reckoning
Hockey Outsider vs. pitseleh

kruezer vs. pitseleh

Winner: pitseleh

ATD#8

Hockey Outsider vs. BM67
Nalyd Psycho/Sturminator vs. pitseleh

Hockey Outsider vs. pitseleh

Winner: Hockey Outsider

ATD#9

pappyline vs. shawnmullin
EagleBelfour vs. Rick Middleton/Sturminator

pappyline vs. EagleBelfour

Winner: pappyline

ATD#10

Hockey Outsider vs. EagleBelfour
Sturminator/Transplanted Caper vs. vancityluongo/Evil Speaker

Hockey Outsider vs. Sturminator/Transplanted Caper

Winner: Sturminator/Transplanted Caper

ATD#11

Sturminator/Evil Speaker vs. spitfire11
arrbez vs. seventieslord

arrbez vs. Sturminator/Evil Speaker

Winner: Sturminator/Evil Speaker

ATD#12

EagleBelfour vs. Mr Bugg
Hedberg vs. TheDevilMadeMe

EagleBelfour vs. Hedberg

Winner: EagleBelfour

ATD2010

TheDevilMadeMe vs. arrbez
Stoneberg vs. hungryhungryhippy

TheDevilMadeMe vs. hungryhungryhippy

Winner: TheDevilMadeMe

ATD2011

Dreakmur vs. seventieslord
TheDevilMadeMe vs. overpass

seventieslord vs. overpass

Winner: seventieslord

ATD2012

Rob Scuderi vs. arrbez
Nalyd Psycho vs. nik jr

nik jr vs. arrbez

Winner: arrbez

ATD2013

Nalyd Psycho vs. BenchBrawl/Sturminator
TheDevilMadeMe vs. Rob Scuderi

BenchBrawl/Sturminator vs. Rob Scuderi

Winner: BenchBrawl/Sturminator

ATD2014

BraveCanadian vs. Hawkey Town 18
TheDevilMadeMe vs. markrander87

TheDevilMadeMe vs. Hawkey Town 18

Winner: TheDevilMadeMe

ATD2015

TheDevilMadeMe vs. markrander87
Rob Scuderi vs. Billyshoe1721

markrander87 vs. Rob Scuderi

Winner: Rob Scuderi

ATD2016

monster_bertuzzi vs. BraveCanadian
Rob Scuderi vs. Hawkey Town 18

monster_bertuzzi vs. Rob Scuderi

Winner: Rob Scuderi

ATD2017

BenchBrawl vs. ResilientBeast
Hawkey Town 18 vs. markrander87/Stoneberg

BenchBrawl vs. Hawkey Town 18

Winner: BenchBrawl

ATD2018

VanIslander vs. rmartin65
ImporterExporter vs. papershoes/Hawkey Town 18

rmartin65 vs. ImporterExporter

Winner: rmartin65

ATD2019

BenchBrawl vs. TheDevilMadeMe
Hawkey Town 18 vs. Dreakmur

TheDevilMadeMe vs. Hawkey Town 18

Winner: Hawkey Town 18

ATD2020

TheDevilMadeMe vs. Dreakmur
VanIslander/Habsfan18 vs. ImporterExporter

TheDevilMadeMe vs. ImporterExporter

Winner: TheDevilMadeMe

ATD2021

ImporterExporter vs. Dreakmur
TheDevilMadeMe vs. BraveCanadian

Dreakmur vs. BraveCanadian

Winner: Dreakmur

ATD2022

Sturminator/BenchBrawl vs. Hawkey Town 18
TheDevilMadeMe vs. ResilientBeast/rmartin65

Sturminator/BenchBrawl vs. ResilientBeast/rmartin65

Winner: ResilientBeast/rmartin65

--------------------------------------------------------------

Number of times GMs made the Conference Final:

TheDevilMadeMe: 10

Sturminator: 6
Hawkey Town 18: 6

Hockey Outsider: 4
Rob Scuderi: 4
BenchBrawl: 4
Dreakmur: 4

Nalyd Psycho: 3
markrander87: 3
EagleBelfour: 3
arrbez: 3
BraveCanadian: 3
ImporterExporter: 3

BM67: 2
seventieslord: 2
pitseleh: 2
Stoneberg: 2
Evil Speaker: 2
VanIslander: 2
ResilientBeast: 2
rmartin65: 2

overpass: 1
papershoes: 1
Billyshoe1721: 1
nik jr: 1
monster_bertuzzi: 1
God Bless Canada: 1
The Lone Elvi: 1
kruezer: 1
reckoning: 1
pappyline: 1
Shawnmullin: 1
Rick Middleton: 1
Transplanted Caper: 1
vancityluongo: 1
spitfire11: 1
Mr Bugg: 1
Hedberg: 1
hungryhungryhippy: 1
Habsfan18: 1

Number of times GMs made the ATD Final:

TheDevilMadeMe: 4
Sturminator: 4

Hockey Outsider: 3
Rob Scuderi: 3
Hawkey Town 18: 3
BenchBrawl: 3

pitseleh: 2
EagleBelfour: 2
arrbez: 2
ImporterExporter: 2
rmartin65: 2

markrander87: 1
monster_bertuzzi: 1
BM67: 1
seventieslord: 1
kruezer: 1
pappyline: 1
Transplanted Caper: 1
Evil Speaker: 1
Hedberg: 1
hungryhungryhippy: 1
overpass: 1
nik jr: 1
Dreakmur: 1
BraveCanadian: 1
ResilientBeast: 1

Number of times GMs won the ATD championship:

Sturminator: 3
TheDevilMadeMe: 3

Hockey Outsider: 2
Rob Scuderi: 2
BenchBrawl: 2
rmartin65: 2

seventieslord: 1
Hawkey Town 18: 1
pitseleh: 1
pappyline: 1
EagleBelfour: 1
arrbez: 1
Transplanted Caper: 1
Evil Speaker: 1
ResilientBeast: 1

 

[ResilientBeast]

Despite my grumbling about a couple years ago, honestly feel pretty proud to be apart of that group to at least make a conference finals.

With all this focus you have on ATD history @BenchBrawl I'm working on a project you might be interested in.

When I'm done I'll post it in here.

 

[ImporterExporter]

So much fantastic info, memories and stories.

Really glad I decided to venture in here 6 odd years ago.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Despite my grumbling about a couple years ago, honestly feel pretty proud to be apart of that group to at least make a conference finals.

With all this focus you have on ATD history @BenchBrawl I'm working on a project you might be interested in.

When I'm done I'll post it in here.

Curious to see what it is.

Yeah I like document the history of things... including our documentations of the history of hockey.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Despite my grumbling about a couple years ago, honestly feel pretty proud to be apart of that group to at least make a conference finals.

Looks like I made it to the final 4 twice and didn't make it over the hump, either!

Maybe this year.

 

[ResilientBeast]

I was thinking about this project, was initially worried how it would be perceived before @rmartin65 suggested it could be interesting for everyone

This project is not meant to demean or degrade our fellow ATDers, I will not post complete results to avoid such a situation. If you're curious about your numbers you can openly ask or pm me privately for your ATD "playing career". (Especially since mine make me sad)

The ATD Elo Project
​

I sat down and transcribed the playoff series from ATD 6 forward. I've included MLD, AAA and OPPF drafts as the point of this project is to track "skill" at playoff debate and team building. This system doesn't penalize for missing the playoffs or compromise for being awarded a bye. This does seem to impact some GMs a little heavier than others (like me). Making an 8 team playoff out of a field of 12 teams comes up a lot and there isn't an elegant way I can think of to reward those GMs. So keep that in mind. I condensed every GM into their active name, I believe the list is accurate and totals 145 unique GMs.

To track the "skill" I used Elo. If you're unfamiliar (Elo rating system - Wikipedia). Essentially the higher skill opponents you beat the more points you're awarded. If you lose to way higher skill opponent you lose less points. The system by default is symmetrical, the winner gains X the loser loses X points in a matchup. With this in mind let's jump into some results.

I've divided the ATD into 3 different reasonable equal sections
Section 1: ATD 6 - ATD 12: Before entries are named by year
Section 2: ATD 2010-AAA 2015: The last AAA draft
Section 3: ATD 2016 - ATD 2020: OPPF is a regular side activity with good participation

So let's breakdown the active top 5 (highest score) in ELO over these different drafts (in order)

Section 1:

1. @Hockey Outsider
2. @Sturminator
3. @EagleBelfour
4. @Transplanted Caper
5. @pitseleh

Section 2:

1. @Rob Scuderi
2. @TheDevilMadeMe
3. @seventieslord
4. @Sturminator
5. @arrbez

Section 3:

1. @Rob Scuderi
2. @TheDevilMadeMe
3. @seventieslord
4. @Hawkey Town 18
5. @BenchBrawl

The overall standings (top 10):

1. @Rob Scuderi
2. @TheDevilMadeMe
3. @seventieslord
4. @Sturminator
5. @Hawkey Town 18
6. @Hockey Outsider
7. @BenchBrawl
8. @Dreakmur
9. @arrbez
10. @markrander87

Now some immediate conceits, since this metric evolves and grows over time, those who participated mostly in section 1 will be disadvantaged since all GMs in ATD 6 start with 1000 points, and all added GMs also s They are in the top 25 just nearer to 25 than to 10.

I have all this playoff information as well, so if you're curious about your W/L record in the playoffs is feel to ask.

For example, mine is 12W-20L and my peak ELO is ~50th on the list, 37th in section 3.

With this information available to me, I can also calculate the average Elo of opponents faced on each of these different championship runs.

Please note, that reflectively these runs could look way different, but please consider what the GMs had done up to that point only. As that is what matters

The top 10 hardest ATD playoff runs (out of 18)

1	ATD 2019	Hawkey Town 18
2	ATD 2017	Benchbrawl
3	ATD 10	Sturminator
4	ATD 2014	TheDevilMadeMe
5	ATD 2013	Sturminator
6	ATD 2015	Rob Scuderi
7	ATD 8	Hockey Outsider
8	ATD 2010	TheDevilMadeMe
9	ATD #7	pitseleh
10	ATD 2020	TheDevilMadeMe

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

The top 10 hardest MLD playoff runs (out of 15)

1	MLD 2017	Hedberg
2	MLD 2016	Hedberg
3	MLD 2014	Rob Scuderi
4	MLD 2011	TheDevilMadeMe
5	MLD8	mxd
6	MLD 2010	Hedberg
7	MLD 11	Dreakmur
8	MLD 10	Nalyd Psycho
9	MLD 2013	seventieslord
10	MLD 2012	TheDevilMadeMe

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

The top 5 hardest AAA playoff runs (out of 8)

1	AAA 2010	seventieslord
2	AAA 2011	Rob Scuderi
3	AAA 2013	seventieslord
4	AAA 2012	seventieslord
5	AAA 10	Dirt 101

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

The top 4 hardest OPPF playoff runs (out of 4)

1	OPPF 2020	Benchbrawl
2	OPPF 2019	TheDevilMadeMe
3	OPPF18	TheDevilMadeMe
4	OPPF16	Benchbrawl

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

The overall top 10 hardest ATD subforum playoff runs (out of 45)

1	OPPF 2020	Benchbrawl
2	MLD 2017	Hedberg
3	ATD 2019	Hawkey Town 18
4	AAA 2014	Rob Scuderi
5	MLD 2016	Hedberg
6	MLD 2014	Rob Scuderi
7	ATD 2017	Benchbrawl
8	MLD 2011	TheDevilMadeMe
9	OPPF 2019	TheDevilMadeMe
10	AAA 2010	seventieslord

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

So looking at this table, you need to consider the word average, minor league drafts typically only have the hardcore draft junkies so the competition level relative to the field is perhaps a smidge higher. And a reminder, this considers everything the opposing GMs had done to date when determining difficulty.

So yeah, if you have any interesting questions you'd like answered about ATD playoff history fire away and I'll see what I can find.

I'd like to stress I did this out of interest in ATD history and not to make people feel bad or anything like that.

I hope someone on this subforum finds this as interesting as I do.

 

[ResilientBeast]

The top 10 GMs to never hoist the Milt Dunnell Cup (by peak Elo)

1. @Dreakmur
2. @markrander87
3. @Hedberg
4. @Dirt 101
5. @Nalyd Psycho
6. @ImporterExporter
7. @BillyShoe1721
8. @overpass
9. @Leafs Forever

 

[Dreakmur]

The top 10 GMs to never hoist the Milt Dunnell Cup (by peak Elo)

1. @Dreakmur
2. @markrander87
3. @Hedberg
4. @Dirt 101
5. @Nalyd Psycho
6. @ImporterExporter
7. @BillyShoe1721
8. @overpass
9. @Leafs Forever

So, I'm the skinniest kid at fat camp? The tallest midget?

 

[BenchBrawl]

5	ATD 2013	Sturminator

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Why am I not included in ATD2013, if team-building is taken into consideration? Sturm handled the debates but this was my championship too, and I care about it

My username was "Jafar" back in those days, though I had "BenchBrawl" prior to it, then went back to it around 2015.

Anyway this is a cool project, but it's hard to take it seriously when a laid-back draft like MLD2019 is considered the 2nd hardest run ever. If we went back and check the threads, would we find any all-out war in any series during that draft? It doesn't pass the smell test. And my own OPPF2020 championship the hardest run ever? It was a hard run, but even restricting it to my own runs, still doesn't compare to ATD2017.

Still, I appreciate the effort you put into this. I played a PC game that used some "Elo system" in the past.

 

[ResilientBeast]

Why am I not included in ATD2013, if team-building is taken into consideration? Sturm handled the debates but this was my championship too, and I care about it

My username was "Jafar" back in those days, though I had "BenchBrawl" prior to it, then went back to it around 2015.

Anyway this is a cool project, but it's hard to take it seriously when a laid-back draft like MLD2019 is considered the 2nd hardest run ever. If we went back and check the threads, would we find any all-out war in any series during that draft? It doesn't pass the smell test. And my own OPPF2020 championship the hardest run ever? It was a hard run, but even restricting it to my own runs, still doesn't compare to ATD2017.

Oh, so in the case of co-gming I used the ELO of the higher ranked GM, and the way I pulled the data I just grabbed the GM I used for the Elo value. Don't worry I know Reen, Jafar and BenchBrawl are all you

I agree, but because TDMM's score is quite high now, the average Elo of your opponents (what was used for difficulty) will be jump.

OPPF 2020 - your opponents in order were Macho King, TDMM and IE. On the back of his two ATD finals appearances IE has a strong score and so does TDMM.
MLD 2019 - Habsfan defeated tinyzombies and then TDMM. At this point Tiny had participated in 2 drafts (I think) so the system hadn't rate him appropriately.

Essentially if you can beat TDMM in a playoff series, you get a sizable bump, but that's what happens when you win 7 drafts, and finish top 4 in countless others.

I think you're confusing the strength and the struggle of the debate to what I'm using as a proxy for that.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Oh, so in the case of co-gming I used the ELO of the higher ranked GM, and the way I pulled the data I just grabbed the GM I used for the Elo value. Don't worry I know Reen, Jafar and BenchBrawl are all you

I agree, but because TDMM's score is quite high now, the average Elo of your opponents (what was used for difficulty) will be jump.

OPPF 2020 - your opponents in order were Macho King, TDMM and IE. On the back of his two ATD finals appearances IE has a strong score and so does TDMM.
MLD 2019 - Habsfan defeated tinyzombies and then TDMM. At this point Tiny had participated in 2 drafts (I think) so the system hadn't rate him appropriately.

Essentially if you can beat TDMM in a playoff series, you get a sizable bump.

I think you're confusing the strength and the struggle of the debate to what I'm using as a proxy for that.

I think I understand what Elo does, I used to play a PC game that used it, though I haven't bothered the check the nitty-gritty details, so I'm not 100% sure.

What I meant, was pointing out two clear cases of the Elo system failing to represent what really happened on this forum.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Oh, so in the case of co-gming I used the ELO of the higher ranked GM, and the way I pulled the data I just grabbed the GM I used for the Elo value. Don't worry I know Reen, Jafar and BenchBrawl are all you

I agree, but because TDMM's score is quite high now, the average Elo of your opponents (what was used for difficulty) will be jump.

OPPF 2020 - your opponents in order were Macho King, TDMM and IE. On the back of his two ATD finals appearances IE has a strong score and so does TDMM.
MLD 2019 - Habsfan defeated tinyzombies and then TDMM. At this point Tiny had participated in 2 drafts (I think) so the system hadn't rate him appropriately.

Essentially if you can beat TDMM in a playoff series, you get a sizable bump, but that's what happens when you win 7 drafts, and finish top 4 in countless others.

I think you're confusing the strength and the struggle of the debate to what I'm using as a proxy for that.

Can you give us the peak Elo for everyone, and the time when they hit it?