Hindsight Drafting, One Draft That Could Have Built A Champion?

[WingsFan95]

Okay, so looking back at some drafts, assuming no draft day changes were made, just different picks, what one draft could have made a team a Champion that in reality did not contend?

84 Draft:

Wings pass on Stéphane Richer, take Shawn Burr and Doug Houda ahead.

Wings pass on Patrick Roy, could have been taken in 1st, 2nd or 3rd Round.

Brett Hull is taken in the 6th Round.

Cliff Ronning is also taken in the 7th Round right after Detroit's pick.

Luc Robitaille is taken in Round 9.

Obviously if you make all those picks you have a dynasty, but suppose the Wings took Hull and Robitaille or Richer, Ronning and Roy.

You have a Cup Contender by the late 80s, hell Roy was a major boost to the Canadiens alone.

Click to read more...

 

[ForsbergForever]

Okay, so looking back at some drafts, assuming no draft day changes were made, just different picks, what one draft could have made a team a Champion that in reality did not contend?

84 Draft:

Wings pass on Stéphane Richer, take Shawn Burr and Doug Houda ahead.

Wings pass on Patrick Roy, could have been taken in 1st, 2nd or 3rd Round.

Brett Hull is taken in the 6th Round.

Cliff Ronning is also taken in the 7th Round right after Detroit's pick.

Luc Robitaille is taken in Round 9.

Obviously if you make all those picks you have a dynasty, but suppose the Wings took Hull and Robitaille or Richer, Ronning and Roy.

You have a Cup Contender by the late 80s, hell Roy was a major boost to the Canadiens alone.

But then in 1989 Detroit selects Nicklas Lidstrom, Sergei Fedorov and Vladimir Konstantinov along with role players Mike Sillinger, Dallas Drake and Bob Boughner...so it would seem to balance out. Maybe if they take Pavel Bure in an earlier round it would have been an even more epic draft but still, it was the year that defined their franchise for years to come.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

man, if the canucks hadn't taken nedved and antoski in the first and slegr in the second round of '90. it was such a strong draft. imagine jagr and tkachuk/brodeur in the first, potvin/weight in the second, zubov in the fourth, and you could still get odjick in the fifth, and lang, bondra, klee, zelepukin, and nemchinov in the later rounds.

any team with 20/20 hindsight could field a powerhouse from that draft, but the canucks had three of the first 23 picks including second overall.

 

[WingsFan95]

But then in 1989 Detroit selects Nicklas Lidstrom, Sergei Fedorov and Vladimir Konstantinov along with role players Mike Sillinger, Dallas Drake and Bob Boughner...so it would seem to balance out. Maybe if they take Pavel Bure in an earlier round it would have been an even more epic draft but still, it was the year that defined their franchise for years to come.

But imagine these two lines:

Robitaille-Yzerman-Hull
Richer-Fedorov-Ronning

 

[Big Phil]

Denis Savard being shunned by Montreal in 1980 for the late and very average Doug Wickenheiser. You'd think Montreal would have been able to gamble a bit by taking a smallish forward with that explosive ability. They were still a great team in 1980 (they didn't know Lafleur was going to take a bath the rest of his career at that time).

 

[tony d]

The 1999 draft wasn't very good but there was talent there, the Islanders had picks 5, 8, 10 and 28, here's who they picked:

Tim Connolly, Taylor Pyatt, Branislav Mezei and Kristian Kudroc. The following players where available when the Islanders made at least 1 of those picks:

Henrik Zetterberg
Ryan Miller
Martin Havlat
Martin Erat

 

[Lead Role in a Cage]

Kings in 2003.

Getzlaf/Richards/Parise instead of Brown in round 1.
Perry instead of Boyle in round 1.
Loui Eriksson instead of Tambellini in round 1.
Weber instead of Pushkarev in round 2.
Hejda instead of Munce in round 3.
Pavelski instead of Pirnes in round 6.
Enstrom/Byfuglien instead of Zaba in round 8.

 

[Stephen]

The same draft the Wings drafted their championship core the Leafs had 3 first rounders, so I guess there's an easy answer.

 

[Vector]

The 1999 draft wasn't very good but there was talent there, the Islanders had picks 5, 8, 10 and 28, here's who they picked:

Tim Connolly, Taylor Pyatt, Branislav Mezei and Kristian Kudroc. The following players where available when the Islanders made at least 1 of those picks:

Henrik Zetterberg
Ryan Miller
Martin Havlat
Martin Erat

Zetterberg was taken in the 7th round (210)
Miller was taken in the 5th round (138)
Havlat was taken in the 1st round (26)
Erat was taken in the 7th round (191)

Apart from Havlat, all of those guys would have been massive reaches. They most likely weren't even on most teams' radars. Even Havlat would have been a big reach at the #8 spot.

Connolly and Pyatt were fine at their positions. Even looking over Mezei and Kudroc there isn't anyone that jumps out at you that should have drafted instead.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

Sens: Lee over Kopitar in 2005.

Spezza and Kopitar down the middle would have been something.

 

[Canadiens Fan]

Denis Savard being shunned by Montreal in 1980 for the late and very average Doug Wickenheiser. You'd think Montreal would have been able to gamble a bit by taking a smallish forward with that explosive ability. They were still a great team in 1980 (they didn't know Lafleur was going to take a bath the rest of his career at that time).

Not that it excuses the selection but it is interesting to note that ...

a) the Hockey News and the Central Scouting Bureau both had Wickenheiser listed as the number one prospect available in the 1980 entry draft.

b) his ranking was largely based on his play during the 1979-80 season where Wickenheiser dominated the junior hockey ranks, leading the WHL in goals (89) and points (170). In addition, he captained the Regina Pats to the Memorial Cup, while leading the league in playoff assists (26) and playoffs points (40).

c) that Lafleur actively lobbied for Wickenheiser, who in both his mind and in the minds of Montreal management was the big centre the team had been missing since the unexpected departure of Jacques Lemaire a year earlier.

In the ensuing years much has been made about the Canadiens passing on Denis Savard in order to choose Wickenheiser with the first pick. The fact that Savard went on to enjoy instant success on his way to a Hall of Fame career has obviously proven that the Habs made the wrong selection.

However, what happened after the draft has unfortunately blurred the realities behind the 1980 draft.

The Canadiens entered the summer of 1980 as a team in transition. Weeks earlier, the Canadiens had been eliminated in the Quarter Finals by the Minnesota North Stars as their dream of a fifth consecutive Stanley Cup came to an end on Forum ice.

What nobody could have known then was that this loss a few weeks before had been the end of an era, the day where the Canadiens days of domination came to an end. The signs were everywhere. The architect of this dynasty, Sam Pollock had left two years ago. Their coach, Scotty Bowman had left after the teams fourth consecutive Cup the spring before, as did future Hall of Fame players Ken Dryden, Yvan Cournoyer, and Jacques Lemaire. Of course, looking back now one could see that stars like Serge Savard, Guy Lapointe, Steve Shutt, and even Lafleur were all beginning the downside of their once great careers.

At the time however, many Montreal fans and media saw this loss as a temporary blip and not the beginning of the Habs eventual descent from the top that we now know it was. This opinion was also shared by the Canadiens brain trust at the time, general manager Irving Grundman, chief scout and player personnel director Ron Caron, and head coach Claude Ruel.

Ruel, had long coveted Denis Savard and actively pushed for the Canadiens to select him with the first pick. However, both Grundman and Caron coveted Wickenheiser as opposed to Savard. At the time the Canadiens group of centers, Pierre Larouche, Pierre Mondou, Doug Risebrough, and Doug Jarvis were all smallish in size, as were the Canadiens top two center prospects; Guy Carbonneau and Dan Daoust.

With Wickenheiser both filling a glaring need and being the clear cut choice as the best prospect available the Canadiens made their fatheful choice.

To give an idea of the immediate reaction to the selection of Wickenheiser here are some observations and quotes taken from the June 12th edition of the Montreal Gazette, the day after the draft, which had as it's main headline in the sports section.

"Canadiens Surprise No One By Picking Wickenheiser First"

"I have seldom seen a big guy that young so well-coordinated, and not only with the ability to make plays, but to finish them. I'd say that right now he's got no worse than the third best wrist shot on the team." Ron Caron, chief scout and director of player personel, Montreal Canadiens.

Interestingly the draft coverage on the front page only mentions Denis Savard once - to say that he was selected with the third overall choice. Most of the attention in the draft coverage appears to be paid to Wickenheiser and the second player chosen overall - by Winnipeg - Dave Babych.

However, a few pages into the sports section there is a story entitled "Juniors Savard Promises to Beat Canadiens Choice." that has some passages that with the benefit of hindsight provides some interesting food for thought.

"When the season starts I'm going to prove I'm better than Doug," Savard vowed quietly. "That's the way I'm motivated."

"Ultimately, the image of Wickenheiser knocking people down in front of the opposition goal was what caused them to reject Savard," wrote Wayne Parrish of the Gazette.

"I don't know if I'm really a tough hockey player," said Wickenheiser. "I can take the rough stuff, I guess you'd say I'm physical."

 

[19Yzerman19]

Zetterberg was taken in the 7th round (210)
Miller was taken in the 5th round (138)
Havlat was taken in the 1st round (26)
Erat was taken in the 7th round (191)

Apart from Havlat, all of those guys would have been massive reaches. They most likely weren't even on most teams' radars. Even Havlat would have been a big reach at the #8 spot.

Connolly and Pyatt were fine at their positions. Even looking over Mezei and Kudroc there isn't anyone that jumps out at you that should have drafted instead.

I think thats why the OP says "Hindsight Drafting, One Draft That Could Have Built A Champion?"

 

[JackFr]

Not exactly what you're asking for, but I did this a while ago. In hindsight, this could have been Pittsburgh with just drafting. ****, I need a time machine.\

Italics are who they drafted, bold is who they "should have".

2000:

R1 - Brooks Orpik Brooks Orpik
R2 - Paul Martin Shane Endicott
R3 - Lubomir Vishnovsky Peter Hamerlik
R4 - no pick
R4 - Matt Hendricks Michel Ouellet
R5 - John-Michael Liles David Koci
R6 - Henrik Lundqvist Patrick Foley
R7 - Paul Gaustad Jim Abbott

2001:

R1 - Derek Roy Colby Armstrong
R2 - Tomas Plekanec Noah Welch
R3 - Patrick Sharp Drew Fata
R4 - Kevin Bieksa Ben Eaves
R5 - Brooks Laich Andy Schneider
R6 - no pick
R7 - Johnny Oduya Tomas Duba

2002:

R1 - Alexander Semin Ryan Whitney
R2 - Duncan Keith Ondrej Nemec
R3 - Matthew Lombardi Erik Christensen
R4 - Brandon Segal Daneil Fernholm
R5 - James Wisniewski Andy Sertich
R5 - Curtis McElhinney Cam Paddock
R6 - Ian White Brandon Goepfert
R7 - Fredrick Norrena Patrik Bartschi
R8 - Maxime Talbot Maxime Talbot

2003:

R1 - Marc-Andre Fleury Marc-Andre Fleury
R2 - Shea Weber Ryan Stone
R3 - Clarke MacArthur Jonathan Filewich
R3 - Dan Carcillo Dan Carcillo
R4 - Lee Stempniak Paul Bissonette
R5 - Brad Richardson Evgeni Isakov
R6 - Drew Miller Lukas Bolf
R7 - Joe Pavelski Andy Chiodo
R7 - Tobias Enstrom Steven Dixon
R8 - Dustin Byfuglien Joe Jenson
R9 - Jaroslav Halak Matt Moulson

2004:

R1 - Evgeni Malkin Evgeni Malkin
R2 - Brandon Dubinsky Johan Salmonsson
R2 - David Krejci Alex Goligoski
R3 - Brandon Prust Nick Johnson
R3 - Johan Franzen Brian Gifford
R4 - Ryan Callahan Tyler Kennedy
R5 - Mikhail Grabovski Mical Sersen
R6 - Roman Polak Moises Gutierrez
R7 - Troy Bouwer Chris Peluso
R8 - Pekka Rinne David Brown

2005:

R1 - Sidney Crosby Sidney Crosby
R2 - Keith Yandle Michael Gergen
R3 - Kris Letang Kris Letang
R4 - Darren Helm Tommi Leinonen
R5 - Matt D'Agostini Tim Crowder
R6 - Sergei Kostitsyn JP Paquet
R7 - Patric Hornqvist Joe Vitale

2006:

R1 - Jonathan Toews Jordan Staal
R2 - Milan Lucic Carl Sneep
R3 - Brad Marchand Brian Strait
R5 - Andrew MacDonald Chad Johnson

Semin - Crosby - Sharp
Franzen - Toews - Malkin
Callahan - Pavelski - Dubinsky
Grabovski - Roy - Plekanec

Lucic, Krejci, Laich

Letang - Orpik
Vishnovsky - Weber
Martin - Keith

Byfuglien, Yandle, Enstrom

Lundqvist
Fleury
Rinne

Halak

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Not that it excuses the selection but it is interesting to note that ...

a) the Hockey News and the Central Scouting Bureau both had Wickenheiser listed as the number one prospect available in the 1980 entry draft.

b) his ranking was largely based on his play during the 1979-80 season where Wickenheiser dominated the junior hockey ranks, leading the WHL in goals (89) and points (170). In addition, he captained the Regina Pats to the Memorial Cup, while leading the league in playoff assists (26) and playoffs points (40).

c) that Lafleur actively lobbied for Wickenheiser, who in both his mind and in the minds of Montreal management was the big centre the team had been missing since the unexpected departure of Jacques Lemaire a year earlier.

In the ensuing years much has been made about the Canadiens passing on Denis Savard in order to choose Wickenheiser with the first pick. The fact that Savard went on to enjoy instant success on his way to a Hall of Fame career has obviously proven that the Habs made the wrong selection.

However, what happened after the draft has unfortunately blurred the realities behind the 1980 draft.

The Canadiens entered the summer of 1980 as a team in transition. Weeks earlier, the Canadiens had been eliminated in the Quarter Finals by the Minnesota North Stars as their dream of a fifth consecutive Stanley Cup came to an end on Forum ice.

What nobody could have known then was that this loss a few weeks before had been the end of an era, the day where the Canadiens days of domination came to an end. The signs were everywhere. The architect of this dynasty, Sam Pollock had left two years ago. Their coach, Scotty Bowman had left after the teams fourth consecutive Cup the spring before, as did future Hall of Fame players Ken Dryden, Yvan Cournoyer, and Jacques Lemaire. Of course, looking back now one could see that stars like Serge Savard, Guy Lapointe, Steve Shutt, and even Lafleur were all beginning the downside of their once great careers.

At the time however, many Montreal fans and media saw this loss as a temporary blip and not the beginning of the Habs eventual descent from the top that we now know it was. This opinion was also shared by the Canadiens brain trust at the time, general manager Irving Grundman, chief scout and player personnel director Ron Caron, and head coach Claude Ruel.

Ruel, had long coveted Denis Savard and actively pushed for the Canadiens to select him with the first pick. However, both Grundman and Caron coveted Wickenheiser as opposed to Savard. At the time the Canadiens group of centers, Pierre Larouche, Pierre Mondou, Doug Risebrough, and Doug Jarvis were all smallish in size, as were the Canadiens top two center prospects; Guy Carbonneau and Dan Daoust.

With Wickenheiser both filling a glaring need and being the clear cut choice as the best prospect available the Canadiens made their fatheful choice.

thanks for that. really interesting post.

i wonder if lafleur pushing for wickenheiser also had something to do with the fact that they probably would had worked best on different lines, both being puck carrying playmakers. too bad, he may have missed out on having a great smoking buddy.

i always thought montreal ended up getting the guy wickenheiser was supposed to be when they picked up bobby smith. smith was my dad's favourite player and my earliest memory of watching hockey is the '89 finals, dad cheering for bobby smith and me cheering for roy.