Highest scoring duos in NHL history

Discussion in 'The History of Hockey' started by matnor, Jul 25, 2011.

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  1. matnor

    matnor Registered User

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    In the thread about top NHL lines (http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=832194) the question was asked which duos scored the most points together. Personally I think that is perhaps more interesting than which lines scored most together since it's more common for two players to have good chemistry and play for a long time together than for an entire line. Also, it might be useful when assesing the production of one player to know the environment he played in. Therefore, I decided to use the data from the Hockey Summary Project to investigate this. As was the case in the other thread the HSP data exists for all seasons from 52/53 with the exception of the seasons 87/88, 88/89, 89/90, 91/92 and 92/93 so that is the data I used. While very good, the HSP data still contains some errors, and it's of course possible that I have made some as well. I define a goal to be a "duo goal" if the two players both had a point on that goal. That is, either goal+assist or assist+assist. Different from the other thread is that I consider both even strength goals as well as special team goals although a separation of these might be interesting.

    These are the 30 duos with the most "duo goals" during this period.


    Not surprisingly, Jari Kurri and Wayne Gretzky has the most points together. This is even more impressing since both the 91/92 and 92/93 seasons when they played together are excluded in the data. The only modern players that make the list are the Sedins and St. Louis - Lecavalier. The Sedins placement is particularly striking. Around 70% of their points have come when both players have registered a point on a goal. Though it should be noted that for the years Kurri played with Gretzky he had an even higher share of points together with Gretzky.

    I also looked at which duos scored the most points together for a single season.


    As you can see, this list is dominated by Gretzky - Kurri. In 84/85, Kurri had a career high of 135 points. That means Gretzky had a point in over 80% of the points Kurri had. And Gretzky is on the list with a number of different players which underlines just how prolific scorer he was.

    If you are interested in any other duo I can look it up.

    Edit: See post #46 for updated lists covering all seasons from 52/53 to 12/13.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2013
  2. Dom

    Dom Registered User

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    Very interesting list and work.

    Can you discriminate for goal and primary assists?
    Let's say compare how many goals Kurri scored with a Gretzky primary assist, a Gretzky secondary assist and total?
     
  3. Pear Juice

    Pear Juice Registered User

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    It really is fascinating to see the Sedin brothers in this company. Really goes to show you how much chemistry means. I knew they scored lots of goals together, but to think that they'd be that high up? I am truly surprised.

    I suppose Lemieux - Stevens would be at or near the top if the data would be available.
     
  4. Dom

    Dom Registered User

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    I suggest, if you have the time, that you post the best of last year on the main board, with maybe a top5 for each team. This is very interesting data that I think more people would like to see.
     
  5. shello

    shello @WShello9

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    For some reason im surprised that the Sedins are that high
     
  6. plusandminus

    plusandminus Registered User

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    Good list.

    If one would adjust for era, I actually think the Sedins would get about the same amount as Gretzky-Kurri. Both in their best seasons, and in total. It would be interesting to look at, to see whether they beat Gretzky-Kurri or not.
     
  7. SidGenoMario

    SidGenoMario Registered User

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    Could I see Crosby and Malkin?
     
  8. hskates21*

    hskates21* Guest

    So what I got out of this is bossy-trottier is the best offensive pairing of all time is that right?
     
  9. Look how much better the Sedin's are than anyone in their era.
     
  10. tjcurrie

    tjcurrie Registered User

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    Very cool !

    How bout Hull and Oates ?

    Edit: Never mind. Just saw it was omitting the years they played together. Dang.
     
  11. shazariahl

    shazariahl Registered User

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    That would be interesting, though I'd be surprised if the Sedins beat them. For one thing, Gretzky/Kurri are missing a couple seasons, and for another they're still over 200 goals ahead. Even adjusting for era, that's a lot of ground to make up. Guaranteed it would be a lot closer though. The Sedins are pretty high up on the list already, and they'd only move up from an adjusted analysis.

    There was a thread not too long ago here discussing primary assists vs secondary. Someone had complained that Gretzky had more 2ndary assists than anyone else in history, which shouldn't be shocking considering he also has more primary assists than anyone else in history. That's what happens when you have more assists than anyone else has points. However, the breakdown also showed that Gretzky had the highest % of primary assists of anyone in history as well, something I found rather surprising. I'm sure there was a cut off - like min 300 assists or something so we didn't have some random clown who played like 3 games ever and had 1 assist total as the leader.
     
  12. TheDevilMadeMe

    TheDevilMadeMe Registered User

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    You could say "better." You could also say "reliant on each other." ;)

    It is quite striking how far ahead they are.
     
  13. BSHH

    BSHH HSVer & Rotflügel

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    Hull & Oates should not be omitted, though. In 1990/1991, they scored 111 goals together (86+25), which would top the per year-ranking.

    Gruß,
    BSHH
     
  14. 5lidyzer19

    5lidyzer19 Registered User

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    Lord stanchion has to be up there, although it's unfair to clasify him as a duo when there are easily dozens of him.

    ;)
     
  15. I think it really goes to show that individually they don't really compare to Crosby offensively. Atleast IMO.
     
  16. Didn't Oates only play 61 games that year as well?
     
  17. tjcurrie

    tjcurrie Registered User

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    Yes

    But isnt it how many goals they teamed up for ? Not their totals added up ?
     
  18. Trottier

    Trottier Very Random

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    Absolutely not! Mike Bossy is "overrated".

    I read that elsewhere on this site. :dunce: :laugh:

    Back to reality: It's Edmonton's duo and NYI's duo...followed by all the rest. The numbers also speak very well of the Sedins' work. (Now they have to produce in June to cement their reputation beyond the stat memorizers.)
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2011
  19. redbull

    redbull tomorrow is a new day

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    I read about Bossy being overrated as well, I thought it was the NY Times or the Washington Post .... maybe it was HFboards, definitely one of those though.

    ---

    Besides the fact it's July, I don't see what the purpose of ranking duos means anyway, but since we're playing, I have to agree that it's Gretzky-Kurri and Trottier-Bossy and nobody else even close. If Mario-anyone would be pretty close I suppose. Lafleur-anyone maybe.

    Trottier-Bossy were exceptional since they won four straight cups and I think went to the finals 5 straight years, almost 6, not to mention, twice against one of the best hockey teams of all time.

    Unfortunately, often on this site, regular season goals/assists/per game (adjusted or not) rank higher than other key measures that aren't easily found in box scores.
     
  20. TheDevilMadeMe

    TheDevilMadeMe Registered User

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    Howe-Lindsay and Morenz-Joliat would have to be up there, as well. Possibly Nighbor-Denneny.

    The HSP only goes back so far.
     
  21. Pear Juice

    Pear Juice Registered User

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    The analysis only counts goals on where they both contributed to the goal via either goal or assists. Hull&Oates would probably be high up, but I doubt they'd overtake Gretzky-Kurri.
     
  22. kurt

    kurt the last emperor

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    No mention of Lemieux/Stevens in the thread? I see they'd be omitted from the results just as Hull/Oates were, but thought someone would mention.

    Lemieux: 69 goals
    Stevens: 55 goals
    Tocchet: 48 goals

    It's possible Lemieux/Stevens and Lemieux/Tocchet would both crack the list for that year. Heck, even Lemieux/Francis or Lemieux/Jagr, potentially.

    For '84-'85 and '85-'86 I'd guess you could probably find permutations of Gretzky/Coffey, Kurri/Coffey and Gretzky/Anderson that would hit this list as well. Same go for some of the other tandems listed.

    I think such analysis would diminish how remarkable the accomplishment of the Sedins appears, but there's no doubt they deserve credit in this category.
     
  23. matnor

    matnor Registered User

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    Here they are:

     
  24. matnor

    matnor Registered User

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    For the only season that exists in the data they had 61 goals together which ranks 38th of all time. Impressive given that Oates missed a quarter of the season.

     
  25. matnor

    matnor Registered User

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    Yeah, I wouldn't call them better players for scoring a lot together. But the question is kind of moot since they are unlikely to play apart for a longer time period. One big reason for why they are far ahead of their contemporaries is that there are very few elite players today who play 10+ seasons together.
     

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