"HHOF Monitor" (1917-18/2005-06)

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

Well I'm sure most of us put weight on international play, but the voters don't seem to care much. Like, it's a nice add-on to a career it seems, but that seems to be it.

You really think so? They seemed to play up Luc's World Championship play quite a bit at the induction. Enough to make me wonder if it is just a "career add-on". I mean, if you're the captain of a winning team, or MVP of the tournament, voted all-star, etc (perhaps not just for being a "regular" squad member, of course).

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

The key will be whether international hockey achievements are part of a well-rounded hockey CV or are they simply cosmetic excuses for shortcomings.

Yup. Kinda what I was thinking.

 

[member 51464]

Yup. Kinda what I was thinking.

Just so you know, you can hit the "multi" button next to each post you want to quote. Then, when you get to the end of the thread can hit reply and it keeps them all together.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

Just so you know, you can hit the "multi" button next to each post you want to quote. Then, when you get to the end of the thread can hit reply and it keeps them all together.

Yeah, I know. But sometimes, when using the "go to first unread post" button, I read the first one and reply right away, instead of reading ALL the new posts first and then deciding what to reply (don't always assume that, nor do I check first to see if, every new post is directed at me).

 

[member 51464]

Yeah, I know. But sometimes, when using the "go to first unread post" button, I read the first one and reply right away, instead of reading ALL the new posts first and then deciding what to reply (don't always assume that, nor do I check first to see if, every new post is directed at me).

Gotcha. Just figured I'd tell you, I have been on the side a while now and just figured out how to use it a couple months ago

Carry on!

 

[Hardyvan123]

very interesting stuff do you have an updated list say from the end of last season and what site do you use for adjusted playoff stats, Hockey reference doesn't have those and some of the point totals are different like for HOWE.

 

[seventieslord]

very interesting stuff do you have an updated list say from the end of last season and what site do you use for adjusted playoff stats, Hockey reference doesn't have those and some of the point totals are different like for HOWE.

I believe the playoff adjustment system is proprietary.

There are so many factors affecting a player's ability to get playoff points including number of rounds, number of games to win a round, league scoring level, roster size, etc, that if I was going to do an adjusted playoff points system I might consider just comparing each player's career total to the weighted career total of all players born within 4 years with a certain number of playoff games played.

 

[Hardyvan123]

I believe the playoff adjustment system is proprietary.

There are so many factors affecting a player's ability to get playoff points including number of rounds, number of games to win a round, league scoring level, roster size, etc, that if I was going to do an adjusted playoff points system I might consider just comparing each player's career total to the weighted career total of all players born within 4 years with a certain number of playoff games played.

That's what I thought but it's an interesting way to compare 06 players with the current minimum of games games to win a Cup that today's players have.

His list isn't perfect (no system is) but it's one of the better ones I've seen out there, possibly the best.

 

[pnep]

That's what I thought but it's an interesting way to compare 06 players with the current minimum of games games to win a Cup that today's players have.

Adjusted PO PTS Leaders (Season)

Adjusted PO PTS Leaders (Career)

 

[Hardyvan123]

Just so you know, you can hit the "multi" button next to each post you want to quote. Then, when you get to the end of the thread can hit reply and it keeps them all together.

Good to know as I've been guilty of multiple replies as I had no idea on how to do this.

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

Best eligible NHL players not in Hall of Fame


Player Name -- YEAR1 -- YEAR2 -- POS -- HHOF Monitor
======================================================
Barrasso Tom -- 1983-84 -- 2002-03 -- G -- 1282,5
Bure Pavel -- 1991-92 -- 2002-03 -- RW -- 1221
Gilmour Doug -- 1983-84 -- 2002-03 -- C -- 1190,5
Provost Claude -- 1955-56 -- 1969-70 -- RW -- 1130,5
Anderson Glenn -- 1980-81 -- 1995-96 -- RW -- 1038
Howe Mark -- 1979-80 -- 1994-95 -- D -- 1007,15
Thompson Paul -- 1926-27 -- 1938-39 -- LW -- 1002

Rousseau Bobby -- 1960-61 -- 1974-75 -- RW -- 982
Talbot Jean Guy -- 1954-55 -- 1970-71 -- D -- 981
Kerr Dave -- 1930-31 -- 1940-41 -- G -- 977,5
Vernon Mike -- 1982-83 -- 2001-02 -- G -- 960
Hollett Flash -- 1933-34 -- 1945-46 -- D -- 945,8
Fleury Theo -- 1988-89 -- 2002-03 -- RW -- 929
Stevens Kevin -- 1987-88 -- 2001-02 -- LW -- 920

Backstrom Ralph -- 1956-57 -- 1972-73 -- C -- 893,5
Vachon Rogie -- 1966-67 -- 1981-82 -- G -- 875,5
Carbonneau Guy -- 1980-81 -- 1999-00 -- C -- 872,5
Lemieux Claude -- 1983-84 -- 2002-03 -- RW -- 871,5
Goring Butch -- 1969-70 -- 1984-85 -- C -- 870
Liut Mike -- 1979-80 -- 1991-92 -- G -- 868
Stewart Gaye -- 1941-42 -- 1953-54 -- LW -- 858,5
Dillon Ceece -- 1930-31 -- 1939-40 -- RW -- 855,5
Brewer Carl -- 1957-58 -- 1979-80 -- D -- 844,9
Cain Herb -- 1933-34 -- 1945-46 -- LW -- 843
Trembley J.C. -- 1959-60 -- 1971-72 -- D -- 842,45
Smith Sid -- 1946-47 -- 1957-58 -- LW -- 838,5
Martin Rick -- 1971-72 -- 1981-82 -- LW -- 837
Hodge Ken -- 1964-65 -- 1977-78 -- RW -- 826
Goyette Phil -- 1956-57 -- 1971-72 -- C -- 821
Wharram Kenny -- 1951-52 -- 1968-69 -- RW -- 808
Tonelli John -- 1978-79 -- 1991-92 -- LW -- 800

Mckenney Don -- 1954-55 -- 1967-68 -- C -- 797
Cashman Wayne -- 1964-65 -- 1982-83 -- LW -- 795,5
Lowe Kevin -- 1979-80 -- 1997-98 -- D -- 795,4
Middleton Rick -- 1974-75 -- 1987-88 -- RW -- 784,5
Nicholls Bernie -- 1981-82 -- 1998-99 -- C -- 764
Smith Bobby -- 1978-79 -- 1992-93 -- C -- 763
Hitchman Lionel -- 1922-23 -- 1933-34 -- D -- 757,6
Thomson James R. -- 1945-46 -- 1957-58 -- D -- 753,35
Hextall Ron -- 1986-87 -- 1998-99 -- G -- 751
Ciccarelli Dino -- 1980-81 -- 1998-99 -- RW -- 750
Tikkanen Esa -- 1984-85 -- 1998-99 -- LW -- 749,5
Vanbiesbrouck John -- 1981-82 -- 2001-02 -- G -- 748
Bellows Brian -- 1982-83 -- 1998-99 -- RW -- 747,5
Chabot Lorne -- 1926-27 -- 1936-37 -- G -- 746,5
Mosdell Kenny -- 1941-42 -- 1958-59 -- C -- 744,5
Leach Reggie -- 1970-71 -- 1982-83 -- RW -- 739
Wilson Doug -- 1977-78 -- 1992-93 -- D -- 739
Roach John -- 1921-22 -- 1934-35 -- G -- 736
Peeters Pete -- 1978-79 -- 1990-91 -- G -- 716

What is the score for Adam Oates?

PS: Great Work!

 

[pnep]

What is the score for Adam Oates?

PS: Great Work!

0135-1985/2004-19-C-1380-1425-163-147-02-0-0-00-1-0-0-00-0-0-0-0-0-0-00-2-F-1084,5-Oates Adam

 

[norrisnick]

I realize it's likely mind-numbingly tedious, but is there an update on the horizon? I'm curious as to how far Lidstrom has climbed by adding 2 more Norris trophies, 2 1st Teams, 1 2nd team, and captaining a Cup winner, etc...

 

[pnep]

I'm curious as to how far Lidstrom has climbed by adding 2 more Norris trophies, 2 1st Teams, 1 2nd team, and captaining a Cup winner, etc...

~ 3100 pts

 

[WingsFan95]

Best eligible NHL players not in Hall of Fame


Player Name -- YEAR1 -- YEAR2 -- POS -- HHOF Monitor
======================================================
Barrasso Tom -- 1983-84 -- 2002-03 -- G -- 1282,5
Bure Pavel -- 1991-92 -- 2002-03 -- RW -- 1221
Gilmour Doug -- 1983-84 -- 2002-03 -- C -- 1190,5
Provost Claude -- 1955-56 -- 1969-70 -- RW -- 1130,5
Howe Mark -- 1979-80 -- 1994-95 -- D -- 1007,15

Could not agree more with Barrasso and Howe in the Hall NOW!!!

 

[BlueBull]

I've been doing some work on some current player's HHOF Monitor Score.

Current Players with a HHOF Monitor of 950+(as of 2020):

Player Name -- Age -- Pos. -- HHOF Monitor
----------------------------------------------------
Ovechkin Alex -- 34 -- LW -- 4038.0
Crosby Sidney -- 32 -- C -- 3510.0
Malkin Evgeni -- 33 -- C -- 2199.5
Stamkos Steven -- 30 -- C -- 1567.5
Chara Zdeno -- 43 -- D -- 1415.0
Toews Jonathan -- 32 -- C -- 1213.5
Perry Corey -- 35 -- RW -- 1134.0
Kovalchuk Ilya -- 37 -- LW -- 1071.5
Kopitar Anze -- 32 -- C -- 1007.0
Bergeron Patrice -- 35 -- C -- 974.0

Work In Progress; Adjusted Point numbers are from Hockey-Reference

 

[Zuluss]

I've been doing some work on some current player's HHOF Monitor Score.

Current Players with a HHOF Monitor of 950+(as of 2020):

Player Name -- Age -- Pos. -- HHOF Monitor
----------------------------------------------------
Ovechkin Alex -- 34 -- LW -- 4038.0
Crosby Sidney -- 32 -- C -- 3510.0
Malkin Evgeni -- 33 -- C -- 2199.5
Stamkos Steven -- 30 -- C -- 1567.5
Chara Zdeno -- 43 -- D -- 1415.0
Toews Jonathan -- 32 -- C -- 1213.5
Perry Corey -- 35 -- RW -- 1134.0
Kovalchuk Ilya -- 37 -- LW -- 1071.5
Kopitar Anze -- 32 -- C -- 1007.0
Bergeron Patrice -- 35 -- C -- 974.0

Work In Progress; Adjusted Point numbers are from Hockey-Reference

That's great stuff, thanks for bumping this.
How do Eric Staal and Erik Karlsson look? How about Backstrom? Has McDavid done enough yet?
I assume that you have not done goalies, because Lundqvist seems to be a lock, but I would be curious as to whether anyone else is close (Fleury? Bob? Price?)

 

[BlueBull]

That's great stuff, thanks for bumping this.
How do Eric Staal and Erik Karlsson look? How about Backstrom? Has McDavid done enough yet?
I assume that you have not done goalies, because Lundqvist seems to be a lock, but I would be curious as to whether anyone else is close (Fleury? Bob? Price?)

Goalie wise, Price is a 685 while Rinne is a 930.
Karlsson is one I'm going to do soon for sure.
Eric Staal - 865.5
Nicklas Backstrom - 770.5

 

[Scandale du Jour]

I've been doing some work on some current player's HHOF Monitor Score.

Current Players with a HHOF Monitor of 950+(as of 2020):

Player Name -- Age -- Pos. -- HHOF Monitor
----------------------------------------------------
Ovechkin Alex -- 34 -- LW -- 4038.0
Crosby Sidney -- 32 -- C -- 3510.0
Malkin Evgeni -- 33 -- C -- 2199.5
Stamkos Steven -- 30 -- C -- 1567.5
Chara Zdeno -- 43 -- D -- 1415.0
Toews Jonathan -- 32 -- C -- 1213.5
Perry Corey -- 35 -- RW -- 1134.0
Kovalchuk Ilya -- 37 -- LW -- 1071.5
Kopitar Anze -- 32 -- C -- 1007.0
Bergeron Patrice -- 35 -- C -- 974.0

Work In Progress; Adjusted Point numbers are from Hockey-Reference

Very interesting.

So, if I understand the formula used for forwards correctly. Goal scoring is given extra importance (100 points for finishing first). There are no points for leading the league in assists. I would not put 100, but I would not put 0 either. A guy like Thornton gets undervalued by this system. Heck, he does not even appear on the list.

Also, shouldn't top 10 finishes for trophies and points/goals/assists be factored in? Crosby, when healthy, is always top 10 in scoring or close to it. Here, he only gets credit for being first or second. Guys that are very good goal scorer also won't get credit much because Ovechkin is such a dominant outlier. I guess that's kinda factored in with the points for adjusted goals/assists/points, but still, does not factor how you place among peers.

The 500-point gap between Crosby and Ovechkin seems huge and is basically skewed by ONE trait; goal scoring.

Malkin being 1400 points behind Crosby and 2000 behind Ovechkin also does not tell the whole story. Especially since a guy like Stamkos is only 600 back of Malkin.

Anyway, super interesting stuff. I am not a numbers buff, so maybe my questions make no sense have already been answered.

 

[Doctor No]

To clarify, @pnep's formula doesn't describe what he feels about who should be in the HHOF - his formula attempts to replicate what voters consider when voting for the HHOF.

In other words, if it's not "fair", that's a reflection of current voters' biases, not of the modeling itself.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

To clarify, @pnep's formula doesn't describe what he feels about who should be in the HHOF - his formula attempts to replicate what voters consider when voting for the HHOF.

In other words, if it's not "fair", that's a reflection of current voters' biases, not of the modeling itself.

Makes perfect sense. Thank you for the precision.

 

[BlueBull]

Very interesting.

So, if I understand the formula used for forwards correctly. Goal scoring is given extra importance (100 points for finishing first). There are no points for leading the league in assists. I would not put 100, but I would not put 0 either. A guy like Thornton gets undervalued by this system. Heck, he does not even appear on the list.

I had not done Joe Thornton yet, as I've only got the HHOF Monitor for like 25 Players (Mostly Forwards Drafted in the Mid to Late 2000s).

Joe Thornton -- 40 -- C -- 1771.0

 

[Scandale du Jour]

I had not done Joe Thornton yet, as I've only got the HHOF Monitor for like 25 Players (Mostly Forwards Drafted in the Mid to Late 2000s).

Joe Thornton -- 40 -- C -- 1771.0

Oh! Makes more sense! Thank you very much!

 

[BlueBull]

2000-2010 Draft Players with a 700+ Score

Draft -- Player Name -- Pos. -- HHOF Monitor
----------------------------------------------------
2000 -- Heatley Dany -- LW -- 867.0
2000 -- Williams Justin -- RW -- 807.0
2000 -- Lundqvist Henrik -- G -- 932.0

2001 -- Kovalchuk Ilya -- LW -- 1071.5
2001 -- Spezza Jason -- C -- 664.5*

2002 -- Nash Rick -- LW -- 761.5
2002 -- Keith Duncan -- D -- 1150.2

2003 -- Fleury Marc-Andre -- G -- 703.0
2003 -- Staal Eric-- C -- 865.5
2003 -- Carter Jeff -- C -- 714.5
2003 -- Getzlaf Ryan -- C -- 1153.5
2003 -- Burns Brent -- D -- 902.6
2003 -- Perry Corey -- RW -- 1134.0
2003 -- Bergeron Patrice -- C -- 974.0
2003 -- Weber Shea -- D -- 957.6
2003 -- Pavelski Joe -- C -- 751.0

2004 -- Ovechkin Alex -- LW -- 4038.0
2004 -- Malkin Evgeni -- C -- 2199.0
2004 -- Rinne Pekka -- G -- 930.0

2005 -- Crosby Sidney -- C -- 3510.0
2005 -- Kopitar Anze -- C -- 1007.0
2005 -- Quick Jonathan -- G -- 738.0

2006 -- Toews Jonathan -- C -- 1213.5
2006 -- Backstrom Nicklas -- C -- 770.5
2006 -- Kessel Phil -- RW -- 740.0
2006 -- Giroux Claude -- F -- 887.0
2006 -- Marchand Brad -- LW -- 742.0

2007-2010 Work in Progress

(*Top 2 Scores are shown Reguardless.)

 

[LT]

I don't know if it's relevant/frequent enough to warrant a numerical value for, but is nationality valued at all?

I think Modano is a prime example of what I'm thinking of. If Modano were Canadian, I think he'd probably still be a HOFer, but him being American and breaking all of the American records absolutely took his case from decent/good to a lock.

Obviously this doesn't really apply for smaller nations with a lighter hockey footprint, and seemingly now for the largest, those breaking those records would likely make it in anyway.

Saying that, I see that it's probably not common enough at all to be addressed.