"HHOF Monitor" (1917-18/2005-06)

[pnep]

I love them both, but you gotta admit, because Gretzky and Lemieux in their primes (or close to ) were playing at the same time as Stevie Y, Stevie didn't get the awards even when scoring 150pts...unlike Burnaby Joe who didn't have that disavantage.

Yzerman, TOP 5 in HART Trophy voting:

1989
1. Wayne Gretzky, LA C 267 (40-22-1)
2. Mario Lemieux, Pit C 187 (18-27-16)
3. Steve Yzerman, Det C 109 (5-14-42)
4. Patrick Roy, Mtl G 2 (0-0-2)
T5. Joe Mullen, Cgy RW 1 (0-0-1)
Chris Chelios, Mtl D 1 (0-0-1)

1988
1. Mario Lemieux, Pit C 292 (54-7-1)
2. Grant Fuhr, Edm G 106 (4-25-11)
3. Wayne Gretzky, Edm C 73 (2-15-18)
4. Steve Yzerman, Det C 64 (3-11-16)
5. Denis Savard, Chi C 21 (0-5-6)

Dionne, TOP 5 in HART Trophy voting:

1981
1. Wayne Gretzky, Edm C 242
2. Mike Liut, St. L G 237
3. Marcel Dionne, LA C 24
4. Mike Bossy, NYI RW 20
5. Bryan Trottier, NYI C 9

1980
1. Wayne Gretzky, Edm C 211
2. Marcel Dionne, LA C 166
3. Tony Esposito, Chi G 64
4. Guy Lafleur, Mtl RW 44
5. Danny Gare, Buf RW 20

1979
1. Bryan Trottier, NYI C 201
2. Guy Lafleur, Mtl RW 84
3. Marcel Dionne, LA C 47
4. Denis Potvin, NYI D 46
5. Mike Palmateer, Tor G 18

Sakic, TOP 5 in HART Trophy voting:

2001
1. Joe Sakic, Col C 585 (53-6-2-1-0)
2. Mario Lemieux, Pit C 272 (8-17-10-6-5)
3. Jaromir Jagr, Pit RW 210 (0-20-10-5-5)
4. Roman Cechmanek, Phi G 89 (0-2-8-10-5)
5. Martin Brodeur, NJ G 64 (0-4-4-4-4)





=========================================

Yzerman, TOP 4 in Postseason All Star voting (Center):

1987-88
Mario Lemieux 309 (60-1-1);
Wayne Gretzky 185 (1-59-3);
Denis Savard 42 (0-3-33);
Steve Yzerman 27 (1-0-22)

1988-89
Not Top 2 (awards voting not available)

1989-90
Mark Messier 287 (54-5-2);
Wayne Gretzky 173 (9-39-11);
Steve Yzerman 44 (0-8-20);
Mario Lemieux 37 (0-6-19)

1990-91
Wayne Gretzky 328 (65-1-0);
Adam Oates 132 (1-36-19);
Joe Sakic 61 (0-16-13);
Steve Yzerman 44 (0-8-20)

1993-94
Not Top 2 (awards voting not available)

1999-00
Steve Yzerman 186 (19-28-7);
Mike Modano 176 (24-15-11);
Joe Sakic 104 (11-10-19);
Jeremy Roenick 32 (3-2-11)


Sakic, TOP 4 in Postseason All Star voting (Center)

Wayne Gretzky 328 (65-1-0);
Adam Oates 132 (1-36-19);
Joe Sakic 61 (0-16-13);
Steve Yzerman 44 (0-8-20);

1993-94
Not Top 2 (awards voting not available)


1994-95
Eric Lindros 75 (15-0-0);
Alexei Zhamnov 33 (0-10-3);
Ron Francis 18 (0-4-6);
Joe Sakic 8 (0-1-5)

1995-96
Mario Lemieux 256 (50-2-0);
Eric Lindros 80 (2-19-13);
Mark Messier 57 (1-14-10);
Joe Sakic 43 (0-11-10);


1998-99
Peter Forsberg 187 (27-14-0);
Alexei Yashin 157 (18-18-13);
Eric Lindros 101 (5-18-22);
Joe Sakic 33 (3-3-9);

1999-00
Steve Yzerman 186 (19-28-7);
Mike Modano 176 (24-15-11);
Joe Sakic 104 (11-10-19);
Jeremy Roenick 32 (3-2-11);

2000-01
Joe Sakic, COL 291 (54-7-0);
Mario Lemieux, PIT 112 (7-23-8);
Doug Weight, EDM 34 (0-8-10);
Mike Modano, DAL 28 (0-6-10);

2001-02
Joe Sakic 193 (27-18-4);
Mats Sundin 160 (21-15-10);
Ron Francis 85 (7-14-8);
Mike Modano 29 (1-4-12);


2003-04
Joe Sakic, COL 454 (80-17-3);
Mats Sundin, TOR 133 (6-25-28);
Joe Thornton, BOS 125 (9-20-20);
Robert Lang, DET 94 (2-23-15);

 

[Ogopogo*]

Yzerman, TOP 5 in HART Trophy voting:

1989
1. Wayne Gretzky, LA C 267 (40-22-1)
2. Mario Lemieux, Pit C 187 (18-27-16)
3. Steve Yzerman, Det C 109 (5-14-42)
4. Patrick Roy, Mtl G 2 (0-0-2)
T5. Joe Mullen, Cgy RW 1 (0-0-1)
Chris Chelios, Mtl D 1 (0-0-1)

1988
1. Mario Lemieux, Pit C 292 (54-7-1)
2. Grant Fuhr, Edm G 106 (4-25-11)
3. Wayne Gretzky, Edm C 73 (2-15-18)
4. Steve Yzerman, Det C 64 (3-11-16)
5. Denis Savard, Chi C 21 (0-5-6)

Dionne, TOP 5 in HART Trophy voting:

1981
1. Wayne Gretzky, Edm C 242
2. Mike Liut, St. L G 237
3. Marcel Dionne, LA C 24
4. Mike Bossy, NYI RW 20
5. Bryan Trottier, NYI C 9

1980
1. Wayne Gretzky, Edm C 211
2. Marcel Dionne, LA C 166
3. Tony Esposito, Chi G 64
4. Guy Lafleur, Mtl RW 44
5. Danny Gare, Buf RW 20

1979
1. Bryan Trottier, NYI C 201
2. Guy Lafleur, Mtl RW 84
3. Marcel Dionne, LA C 47
4. Denis Potvin, NYI D 46
5. Mike Palmateer, Tor G 18

Sakic, TOP 5 in HART Trophy voting:

2001
1. Joe Sakic, Col C 585 (53-6-2-1-0)
2. Mario Lemieux, Pit C 272 (8-17-10-6-5)
3. Jaromir Jagr, Pit RW 210 (0-20-10-5-5)
4. Roman Cechmanek, Phi G 89 (0-2-8-10-5)
5. Martin Brodeur, NJ G 64 (0-4-4-4-4)





=========================================

Yzerman, TOP 4 in Postseason All Star voting (Center):

1987-88
Mario Lemieux 309 (60-1-1);
Wayne Gretzky 185 (1-59-3);
Denis Savard 42 (0-3-33);
Steve Yzerman 27 (1-0-22)

1988-89
Not Top 2 (awards voting not available)

1989-90
Mark Messier 287 (54-5-2);
Wayne Gretzky 173 (9-39-11);
Steve Yzerman 44 (0-8-20);
Mario Lemieux 37 (0-6-19)

1990-91
Wayne Gretzky 328 (65-1-0);
Adam Oates 132 (1-36-19);
Joe Sakic 61 (0-16-13);
Steve Yzerman 44 (0-8-20)

1993-94
Not Top 2 (awards voting not available)

1999-00
Steve Yzerman 186 (19-28-7);
Mike Modano 176 (24-15-11);
Joe Sakic 104 (11-10-19);
Jeremy Roenick 32 (3-2-11)


Sakic, TOP 4 in Postseason All Star voting (Center)

Wayne Gretzky 328 (65-1-0);
Adam Oates 132 (1-36-19);
Joe Sakic 61 (0-16-13);
Steve Yzerman 44 (0-8-20);

1993-94
Not Top 2 (awards voting not available)


1994-95
Eric Lindros 75 (15-0-0);
Alexei Zhamnov 33 (0-10-3);
Ron Francis 18 (0-4-6);
Joe Sakic 8 (0-1-5)

1995-96
Mario Lemieux 256 (50-2-0);
Eric Lindros 80 (2-19-13);
Mark Messier 57 (1-14-10);
Joe Sakic 43 (0-11-10);


1998-99
Peter Forsberg 187 (27-14-0);
Alexei Yashin 157 (18-18-13);
Eric Lindros 101 (5-18-22);
Joe Sakic 33 (3-3-9);

1999-00
Steve Yzerman 186 (19-28-7);
Mike Modano 176 (24-15-11);
Joe Sakic 104 (11-10-19);
Jeremy Roenick 32 (3-2-11);

2000-01
Joe Sakic, COL 291 (54-7-0);
Mario Lemieux, PIT 112 (7-23-8);
Doug Weight, EDM 34 (0-8-10);
Mike Modano, DAL 28 (0-6-10);

2001-02
Joe Sakic 193 (27-18-4);
Mats Sundin 160 (21-15-10);
Ron Francis 85 (7-14-8);
Mike Modano 29 (1-4-12);


2003-04
Joe Sakic, COL 454 (80-17-3);
Mats Sundin, TOR 133 (6-25-28);
Joe Thornton, BOS 125 (9-20-20);
Robert Lang, DET 94 (2-23-15);

Excellent research pnep.

Many people subscribe to the flawed belief that Yzerman was somehow held back because he played during Gretzky and Lemieux's careers. The reality is, he was rarely the 3rd best player in the game during those years. He was an excellent player but not as great as many Yzerman fans want to believe.

 

[gary69]

=========================================

Yzerman, TOP 4 in Postseason All Star voting (Center):


1988-89
Not Top 2 (awards voting not available)

Check the awards voting thread page 4, I believe, 88/89 All star votes are there, BM67 just hasn't updated the first page.

Seems that Yzerman was third for center with 87 votes.

 

[BM67]

Check the awards voting thread page 4, I believe, 88/89 All star votes are there, BM67 just hasn't updated the first page.

Seems that Yzerman was third for center with 87 votes.

Sorry, but since they set a post size limit of less than half the first post, I can't update the first page, without removing most of the post.

I'm pretty sure when they set the limit they didn't expect anybody to have a post that was anywhere near the limit, but that's one mother of a post.

 

[David]

Yzerman, TOP 5 in HART Trophy voting:

1989
1. Wayne Gretzky, LA C 267 (40-22-1)
2. Mario Lemieux, Pit C 187 (18-27-16)
3. Steve Yzerman, Det C 109 (5-14-42)
4. Patrick Roy, Mtl G 2 (0-0-2)
T5. Joe Mullen, Cgy RW 1 (0-0-1)
Chris Chelios, Mtl D 1 (0-0-1)

1988
1. Mario Lemieux, Pit C 292 (54-7-1)
2. Grant Fuhr, Edm G 106 (4-25-11)
3. Wayne Gretzky, Edm C 73 (2-15-18)
4. Steve Yzerman, Det C 64 (3-11-16)
5. Denis Savard, Chi C 21 (0-5-6)

Dionne, TOP 5 in HART Trophy voting:

1981
1. Wayne Gretzky, Edm C 242
2. Mike Liut, St. L G 237
3. Marcel Dionne, LA C 24
4. Mike Bossy, NYI RW 20
5. Bryan Trottier, NYI C 9

1980
1. Wayne Gretzky, Edm C 211
2. Marcel Dionne, LA C 166
3. Tony Esposito, Chi G 64
4. Guy Lafleur, Mtl RW 44
5. Danny Gare, Buf RW 20

1979
1. Bryan Trottier, NYI C 201
2. Guy Lafleur, Mtl RW 84
3. Marcel Dionne, LA C 47
4. Denis Potvin, NYI D 46
5. Mike Palmateer, Tor G 18

Sakic, TOP 5 in HART Trophy voting:

2001
1. Joe Sakic, Col C 585 (53-6-2-1-0)
2. Mario Lemieux, Pit C 272 (8-17-10-6-5)
3. Jaromir Jagr, Pit RW 210 (0-20-10-5-5)
4. Roman Cechmanek, Phi G 89 (0-2-8-10-5)
5. Martin Brodeur, NJ G 64 (0-4-4-4-4)





=========================================

Yzerman, TOP 4 in Postseason All Star voting (Center):

1987-88
Mario Lemieux 309 (60-1-1);
Wayne Gretzky 185 (1-59-3);
Denis Savard 42 (0-3-33);
Steve Yzerman 27 (1-0-22)

1988-89
Not Top 2 (awards voting not available)

1989-90
Mark Messier 287 (54-5-2);
Wayne Gretzky 173 (9-39-11);
Steve Yzerman 44 (0-8-20);
Mario Lemieux 37 (0-6-19)

1990-91
Wayne Gretzky 328 (65-1-0);
Adam Oates 132 (1-36-19);
Joe Sakic 61 (0-16-13);
Steve Yzerman 44 (0-8-20)

1993-94
Not Top 2 (awards voting not available)

1999-00
Steve Yzerman 186 (19-28-7);
Mike Modano 176 (24-15-11);
Joe Sakic 104 (11-10-19);
Jeremy Roenick 32 (3-2-11)


Sakic, TOP 4 in Postseason All Star voting (Center)

Wayne Gretzky 328 (65-1-0);
Adam Oates 132 (1-36-19);
Joe Sakic 61 (0-16-13);
Steve Yzerman 44 (0-8-20);

1993-94
Not Top 2 (awards voting not available)


1994-95
Eric Lindros 75 (15-0-0);
Alexei Zhamnov 33 (0-10-3);
Ron Francis 18 (0-4-6);
Joe Sakic 8 (0-1-5)

1995-96
Mario Lemieux 256 (50-2-0);
Eric Lindros 80 (2-19-13);
Mark Messier 57 (1-14-10);
Joe Sakic 43 (0-11-10);


1998-99
Peter Forsberg 187 (27-14-0);
Alexei Yashin 157 (18-18-13);
Eric Lindros 101 (5-18-22);
Joe Sakic 33 (3-3-9);

1999-00
Steve Yzerman 186 (19-28-7);
Mike Modano 176 (24-15-11);
Joe Sakic 104 (11-10-19);
Jeremy Roenick 32 (3-2-11);

2000-01
Joe Sakic, COL 291 (54-7-0);
Mario Lemieux, PIT 112 (7-23-8);
Doug Weight, EDM 34 (0-8-10);
Mike Modano, DAL 28 (0-6-10);

2001-02
Joe Sakic 193 (27-18-4);
Mats Sundin 160 (21-15-10);
Ron Francis 85 (7-14-8);
Mike Modano 29 (1-4-12);


2003-04
Joe Sakic, COL 454 (80-17-3);
Mats Sundin, TOR 133 (6-25-28);
Joe Thornton, BOS 125 (9-20-20);
Robert Lang, DET 94 (2-23-15);

This is EXACTLY my point.

Yzerman has always had to contend with two abnormalities in Gretzky and Lemieux in their primes whereas Sakic never did. You move Gretzky and Lemieux's prime to about 8-10 years later, then Yzerman would have been winning the Harts while Sakic would have been relegated to being the 4th and 5th best player each year.

You take away Gretz and Lemieux and you'll see that Yzerman's career was superior to Sakic's and much superior to Dionne who's never even won a Cup...yet your system does not reflect that.

 

[David]

Excellent research pnep.

Many people subscribe to the flawed belief that Yzerman was somehow held back because he played during Gretzky and Lemieux's careers. The reality is, he was rarely the 3rd best player in the game during those years. He was an excellent player but not as great as many Yzerman fans want to believe.

Yzerman wasn't held back by Gretz and Lemieux but he certainly was overshadowed by it.

Yzerman often was the third best player behind Wayne and Lepieux during those year...conversely, Sakic was not always third best player in the leaugue most years.

Yzerman was an excellent player and so was/is Sakic...but Yzerman was greater. And this coming from a #1 Sakic fan since he was a whee l'lad riding buses in Swift Current.

 

[Weztex]

pnep, i'm really interested to see your projected awards and all-star teams. The awards not being given back there, i'd like to see what this could have looked like according to someone more knowledgeable than me.

 

[pnep]

Projected Awards Winners used for:

1 and 2 ALL STAR TEAMS (Seasons 1917-18/1929-30)
CALDER and CALDER Runner Up (Seasons 1921-22/1931-32)
CONN SMYTHE (Seasons 1917-18/1963-64)
HART and HART Runner Up (Seasons 1917-18/1922-23)
BYNG (Seasons 1917-18/1923-24)
NORRIS and NORRIS Runner Up (Seasons 1917-18/1952-53)
VEZINA and VEZINA Runner Up (Seasons 1917-18/1925-26)
SELKE (Seasons 1917-18/1976-77)

 

[Ogopogo*]

Yzerman wasn't held back by Gretz and Lemieux but he certainly was overshadowed by it.

Yzerman often was the third best player behind Wayne and Lepieux during those year...conversely, Sakic was not always third best player in the leaugue most years.

Yzerman was an excellent player and so was/is Sakic...but Yzerman was greater. And this coming from a #1 Sakic fan since he was a whee l'lad riding buses in Swift Current.

Please provide some evidence. I have seen no evidence to prove that Yzerman was consistently the 3rd best player in the NHL.

Yzerman and Sakic are close but, Sakic is ahead when you comapre greatness of careers.

 

[pappyline]

Projected Awards Winners used for:

1 and 2 ALL STAR TEAMS (Seasons 1917-18/1929-30)
CALDER and CALDER Runner Up (Seasons 1921-22/1931-32)
CONN SMYTHE (Seasons 1917-18/1963-64)
HART and HART Runner Up (Seasons 1917-18/1922-23)
BYNG (Seasons 1917-18/1923-24)
NORRIS and NORRIS Runner Up (Seasons 1917-18/1952-53)
VEZINA and VEZINA Runner Up (Seasons 1917-18/1925-26)
SELKE (Seasons 1917-18/1976-77)

Pnep

really interested ib this but having troubke downloading. Can you email them to me

 

[pnep]

Pnep

really interested ib this but having troubke downloading. Can you email them to me

your e-mail address?

 

[ManlyStanley*]

wow this list sucks, Joe Thornton isn't even on there.... ????

 

[19nazzy]

wow this list sucks, Joe Thornton isn't even on there.... ????

I suggest next time you don't criticize other people when you're wrong

0200-1997/2006-08-C-0590-0604-046-029-03-1-0-01-1-0-0-01-0-0-0-0-0-0-00-0-F-0826,0-Thornton Joe

 

[Bear of Bad News]

wow this list sucks, Joe Thornton isn't even on there.... ????

I'd say something in response, but it wouldn't be polite by any stretch of the imagination, so I won't say anything at all.

 

[NOTENOUGHJTCGOALS]

Yzerman, TOP 5 in HART Trophy voting:

1989
3. Steve Yzerman, Det C 109 (5-14-42)
4. Patrick Roy, Mtl G 2 (0-0-2)
T5. Joe Mullen, Cgy RW 1 (0-0-1)
Chris Chelios, Mtl D 1 (0-0-1)

1988
2. Grant Fuhr, Edm G 106 (4-25-11)
4. Steve Yzerman, Det C 64 (3-11-16)
5. Denis Savard, Chi C 21 (0-5-6)

Dionne, TOP 5 in HART Trophy voting:

1981
2. Mike Liut, St. L G 237
3. Marcel Dionne, LA C 24
4. Mike Bossy, NYI RW 20
5. Bryan Trottier, NYI C 9

1980
2. Marcel Dionne, LA C 166
3. Tony Esposito, Chi G 64
4. Guy Lafleur, Mtl RW 44
5. Danny Gare, Buf RW 20

1979
1. Bryan Trottier, NYI C 201
2. Guy Lafleur, Mtl RW 84
3. Marcel Dionne, LA C 47
4. Denis Potvin, NYI D 46
5. Mike Palmateer, Tor G 18

Sakic, TOP 5 in HART Trophy voting:

2001
1. Joe Sakic, Col C 585 (53-6-2-1-0)
2. Mario Lemieux, Pit C 272 (8-17-10-6-5)
3. Jaromir Jagr, Pit RW 210 (0-20-10-5-5)
4. Roman Cechmanek, Phi G 89 (0-2-8-10-5)
5. Martin Brodeur, NJ G 64 (0-4-4-4-4)





=========================================

Yzerman, TOP 4 in Postseason All Star voting (Center):

1987-88
Denis Savard 42 (0-3-33);
Steve Yzerman 27 (1-0-22)

1988-89
Not Top 2 (awards voting not available)

1989-90
Mark Messier 287 (54-5-2);
Steve Yzerman 44 (0-8-20);
Mario Lemieux 37 (0-6-19)

1990-91
Adam Oates 132 (1-36-19);
Joe Sakic 61 (0-16-13);
Steve Yzerman 44 (0-8-20)

1993-94
Not Top 2 (awards voting not available)

1999-00
Steve Yzerman 186 (19-28-7);
Mike Modano 176 (24-15-11);
Joe Sakic 104 (11-10-19);
Jeremy Roenick 32 (3-2-11)


Sakic, TOP 4 in Postseason All Star voting (Center)

Adam Oates 132 (1-36-19);
Joe Sakic 61 (0-16-13);
Steve Yzerman 44 (0-8-20);

1993-94
Not Top 2 (awards voting not available)


1994-95
Eric Lindros 75 (15-0-0);
Alexei Zhamnov 33 (0-10-3);
Ron Francis 18 (0-4-6);
Joe Sakic 8 (0-1-5)

1995-96
Eric Lindros 80 (2-19-13);
Mark Messier 57 (1-14-10);
Joe Sakic 43 (0-11-10);


1998-99
Peter Forsberg 187 (27-14-0);
Alexei Yashin 157 (18-18-13);
Eric Lindros 101 (5-18-22);
Joe Sakic 33 (3-3-9);

1999-00
Steve Yzerman 186 (19-28-7);
Mike Modano 176 (24-15-11);
Joe Sakic 104 (11-10-19);
Jeremy Roenick 32 (3-2-11);

2000-01
Joe Sakic, COL 291 (54-7-0);
Mario Lemieux, PIT 112 (7-23-8);
Doug Weight, EDM 34 (0-8-10);
Mike Modano, DAL 28 (0-6-10);

2001-02
Joe Sakic 193 (27-18-4);
Mats Sundin 160 (21-15-10);
Ron Francis 85 (7-14-8);
Mike Modano 29 (1-4-12);


2003-04
Joe Sakic, COL 454 (80-17-3);
Mats Sundin, TOR 133 (6-25-28);
Joe Thornton, BOS 125 (9-20-20);
Robert Lang, DET 94 (2-23-15);



I just deleted Mario and Wayne anytime they placed above the guy in question.

All 3 guys would have a Hart, Yzerman and Dionne both a runner up as well.

Yzerman would be a first team all star once and a second team allstar twice.

Sakic a first team all star three times, and a second team allstar once.

Sakic still finishes ahead unless you value that runner up for the Hart alot more.

I guess if you're going to magically put Lemieux and Gretzky into the years Sakic won any awards and slot them higher so Sakic always finishes third you would have an argument. An incredibly stupid one though.

Without Lemieux and Gretzky, Yzerman is the best player in the league an astonishing one whole time. The exact same number of times Sakic was. I never read the whole numerical system you're using to rank HoF points, but I doubt if you take away Gretzky and Lemieux that Yzerman would somehow jump out miles ahead of Sakic.

If anything, I think taking away Gretzky and Lemieux and it would be Messier with even more shiny trophies not Yzerman.

 

[BM67]

With the possible exception of a few votes where our NHL Award and All-star Voting records are incomplete, here is all the votes Yzerman received in his career:

1983-84: Calder: 2nd: 203 (21-29-11)
1984-85: No votes
1985-86: No votes
1986-87: Hart: 7th: 5 (0-1-2)
1987-88: Hart: 4th: 64 (3-11-16); Lady Byng: 7th: 18 (1-3-4); Selke: T18th-21st: 5 (1-0-0); All-star: 4th: 27 (1-0-22)
1988-89: Hart: 3rd 109 (5-14-42); Lady Byng: 8th: 8 (1-1-0); Selke: T11th-13th: 8 (1-1-0); All-star: 3rd: 87 (5-3-53)
1989-90: Hart: 7th 3 (0-0-3); Lady Byng: 14th: 4 (0-1-1); All-star: 3rd: 44 (0-8-20)
1990-91: Lady Byng: 7th: 22 (2-2-6); All-star: 4th: 44 (0-8-20)
1991-92: Hart: 7th: 10 (0-2-4); Lady Byng: 10th: 11 (1-1-3); All-star: 6th: 6 (0-2-0)
1992-93: Hart: 8th: 2 (0-0-2); Lady Byng: 6th: 15 (1-2-4); Selke: T14th-16th: 3 (0-1-0); All-star: 5th: 25 (0-6-7)
1993-94: No votes
1994-95: No votes
1995-96: Hart: T18th-19th: 4 (0-0-0-1-1); Lady Byng: 18th: 9 (0-0-1-1-1); Selke: 3rd: 57 (1-1-6-3-1)
1996-97: Selke: 16th: 20 (2-0-0-0-0)
1997-98: Hart: 19th: 2 (0-0-0-0-2); Selke: 9th: 33 (0-4-1-0-0); All-star: T11th-12th: 1 (0-0-1)
1998-99: Hart: T7th-8th: 7 (0-0-1-0-2); Selke: 4th: 44 (1-1-2-4-5); All-star: T6th-7th: 5 (1-0-0)
1999-2000: Hart: 8th: 26 (1-0-1-3-2); Lady Byng: 10th: 36 (1-2-2-0-2); Selke: 1st: 431 (32-11-5-2-3); All-star: 1st: 186 (19-28-7)
2000-01: Hart: T21st-22nd: 4 (0-0-0-1-1); Lady Byng: 10th: 26 (0-2-0-4-0); Selke: 5th: 108 (3-7-3-3-5)
2001-02: No votes
2002-03: No votes
2003-04: Lady Byng: 10th: 10 (1-0-0-0-0); Selke: T45th -48th: 4 (0-0-0-1-1)
2005-06: Lady Byng: 7th: 125 (11-1-1-0-3)

 

[rmchahn]

When will all those players ahead of Gillies get in?

 

[kihei]

On the worst player's list, I think Fetisov deserves an asterik and an explanation given the fact that only nine of his 21 seasons were spent in the NHL. He was one of the best defensemen in the world for a long, long time and contributed to several international titles.

Great research, though. Thanks for taking the time.

 

[pnep]

On the worst player's list, I think Fetisov deserves an asterik and an explanation given the fact that only nine of his 21 seasons were spent in the NHL.

i use "italic" tag for this...

 

[Nalyd Psycho]

On the worst player's list, I think Fetisov deserves an asterik and an explanation given the fact that only nine of his 21 seasons were spent in the NHL. He was one of the best defensemen in the world for a long, long time and contributed to several international titles.

Great research, though. Thanks for taking the time.

" (Played 21 professional seasons from 1976 to 1997)" is the asterix. All players with that indicator played major-pro outside of the NHL. Mostly NHA, WCHL or PCHA.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

Thought I'd give this an ultra bump, since it is referred to and cut and pasted from somewhat frequently. Also, after watching the hall of fame inductions and lots of World Championship classics (1994 was on yesterday), and with the Olympics on the horizon, I got to thinking. The HOF obviously recognizes international exploits (one case is that Tretiak, I believe, is in the Hall, and never played an NHL game in his life), but I don't see anything built into the HHOF Monitor Points for international play.

There are points for NHL 1st and 2nd team all-stars and MVP, but not for IIHF all-star and MVP honours (or anything related to the Olympics either). I hate to give a brother more work to do, and I don't know how to properly weight these things, but it seems they are somewhat relevant. Have these ever come up?

 

[arrbez]

Thought I'd give this an ultra bump, since it is referred to and cut and pasted from somewhat frequently. Also, after watching the hall of fame inductions and lots of World Championship classics (1994 was on yesterday), and with the Olympics on the horizon, I got to thinking. The HOF obviously recognizes international exploits (one case is that Tretiak, I believe, is in the Hall, and never played an NHL game in his life), but I don't see anything built into the HHOF Monitor Points for international play.

There are points for NHL 1st and 2nd team all-stars and MVP, but not for IIHF all-star and MVP honours (or anything related to the Olympics either). I hate to give a brother more work to do, and I don't know how to properly weight these things, but it seems they are somewhat relevant. Have these ever come up?

I think this list is made to predict who is most likely to be inducted according to voting patterns, not necessarily who is most deserving. While Tretiak and Kharlamov are in the hall, they're exceptions to the rule. And let's face it, they're only in there because they were the two most memorable Soviets from the Summit Series. The fact that no other pre-NHL Euros are in the Hall shows that international accomplishments mean virtually nothing to the voters, which is what this list is made to represent (I believe).

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

I think this list is made to predict who is most likely to be inducted according to voting patterns, not necessarily who is most deserving. While Tretiak and Kharlamov are in the hall, they're exceptions to the rule. And let's face it, they're only in there because they were the two most memorable Soviets from the Summit Series. The fact that no other pre-NHL Euros are in the Hall shows that international accomplishments mean virtually nothing to the voters, which is what this list is made to represent (I believe).

Fair enough. But I also saw a lot of arguments regarding Forsberg's chances at getting into the Hall in that thread, and many touched on his international play for justification. Just sayin', watching all this stuff recently got me to thinking about this thread. Lindros and Kariya are other players that are seen as "borderline" by some, and had IIHF success. Heatley has 2 World Championship MVPs, I believe, as well (perhaps that is more applicable to the HHOF Monitor First Four Seasons thread though).

 

[arrbez]

Fair enough. But I also saw a lot of arguments regarding Forsberg's chances at getting into the Hall in that thread, and many touched on his international play for justification. Just sayin', watching all this stuff recently got me to thinking about this thread. Lindros and Kariya are other players that are seen as "borderline" by some, and had IIHF success. Heatley has 2 World Championship MVPs, I believe, as well (perhaps that is more applicable to the HHOF Monitor First Four Seasons thread though).

Well I'm sure most of us put weight on international play, but the voters don't seem to care much. Like, it's a nice add-on to a career it seems, but that seems to be it.

 

[Canadiens1958]

HHOF Voting

Fair enough. But I also saw a lot of arguments regarding Forsberg's chances at getting into the Hall in that thread, and many touched on his international play for justification. Just sayin', watching all this stuff recently got me to thinking about this thread. Lindros and Kariya are other players that are seen as "borderline" by some, and had IIHF success. Heatley has 2 World Championship MVPs, I believe, as well (perhaps that is more applicable to the HHOF Monitor First Four Seasons thread though).

The history of HHOF voting reflects hockey influences and trends by era. Hobey Baker, Moose Goheen, reflect early US influences, members from the founding days reflect how hockey was perceived in the pre NHA era and so forth.

Now that we are well into the second generation of a strong European influence combined with a much greater North American presence on the international scene expect the HHOF to gradually reflect such trends in their voting.

The key will be whether international hockey achievements are part of a well-rounded hockey CV or are they simply cosmetic excuses for shortcomings.