HHOF - Class of 2011

Steve Kournianos

@thedraftanalyst
Is this an endorsement of Nieuwendyk, or are you just saying you think he will get in?



For allowing an OT goal in 1993? No, it wasn't a great goal, but come on... 6 guys on the ice.


But I wasnt just talking about Game 7. Lets not forget the Pens had a 2-1 lead in the series. He let in 19 goals in the last 4 games of the Isles series. His save pct for those games was just about .850

And MS summed up pretty well a month back that Barrasso had a great series against Florida in '96.


Up until Game 6. Game 6 and Game 7 he was terrible.



Come on, do I need to laundry list the names that Richter played with for extended periods?

Extended periods? I think you mean period...singular.

Richter didnt become the Rangers full-time goalie until 1994. The Rangers never made the playoffs with Richter after 1997.
 
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SidGenoMario

Registered User
Apr 10, 2009
7,185
97
Saskatoon, SK
Nieuwendyk is so undeserving it hurts. Just counting NHL players that I can think of off the top of my head, Oates and Belfour deserve it immediately. Then Gilmour, then Lindros and Bure. The last 2 are controversial, but I think players that dominant should be no-brainer inductions. ****ing Dino Cicarelli is in, and that's wrong. These guys are the anti-Dino, and they're everything a HoFer should be: dominant.
 

MXD

Original #4
Oct 27, 2005
50,667
16,392
Oh, Belfour is eligible?

Then...
Belfour, Gilmour, and two of Oates, Makarov and Howe. Not that Gilmour was better of those three, but I think he has the better shot.

And PLEASE, no Mike Richter...
 

Hardyvan123

tweet@HardyintheWack
Jul 4, 2010
17,552
24
Vancouver
Nieuwendyk is so undeserving it hurts. Just counting NHL players that I can think of off the top of my head, Oates and Belfour deserve it immediately. Then Gilmour, then Lindros and Bure. The last 2 are controversial, but I think players that dominant should be no-brainer inductions. ****ing Dino Cicarelli is in, and that's wrong. These guys are the anti-Dino, and they're everything a HoFer should be: dominant.

Not sure it hurts to think of Nieuwendyk but maybe you are not a fan of George Armstrong (or countless others that are in the Hall from the 30-60's).

Joe would not be the best guy in the Hall but there are probably 50 guys in the hall that Joe has a better case than.

Not sure if he would make my Hall though he is borderline.

Definitely a guy who belongs in the Hall of the very good.
 

Hawkey Town 18

Registered User
Jun 29, 2009
8,244
1,631
Chicago, IL
Not sure it hurts to think of Nieuwendyk but maybe you are not a fan of George Armstrong (or countless others that are in the Hall from the 30-60's).

Joe would not be the best guy in the Hall but there are probably 50 guys in the hall that Joe has a better case than.

Not sure if he would make my Hall though he is borderline.

Definitely a guy who belongs in the Hall of the very good.

No way this is true. There is only 247 players in the Hall...Joe Nieuwendyk is not better than a fifth of all players in there. I would be shocked to see you come up with even 40 names that are worse than a guy that has zero All-Star Team selections and only 3 times in the top 20 in points (none in the Top 10) as a forward.
 

TheDevilMadeMe

Registered User
Aug 28, 2006
52,271
6,980
Brooklyn
No way this is true. There is only 247 players in the Hall...Joe Nieuwendyk is not better than a fifth of all players in there. I would be shocked to see you come up with even 40 names that are worse than a guy that has zero All-Star Team selections and only 3 times in the top 20 in points (none in the Top 10) as a forward.

To add to what you said: Joe was never more than "good for a scoring line center" at defense, he was never captain of a successful team (he was captain of Calgary during their choking era), and that while he had quite a few pretty good playoffs, he was only dominant in the playoffs once.
 

connellc

Registered User
Dec 2, 2010
274
17
I can live with Belfour, Gilmour, Oates, Makarov.

By the way, isn't Alex Mogliny up for HHOF this year too? I'm surprised nobody has mentioned him. Gold medal, multiple cups, over 70 goals in a season, one of the highest scoring Russians in the NHL all time. It's a shame how his career ended though.
 

TheDevilMadeMe

Registered User
Aug 28, 2006
52,271
6,980
Brooklyn
I can live with Belfour, Gilmour, Oates, Makarov.

By the way, isn't Alex Mogliny up for HHOF this year too? I'm surprised nobody has mentioned him. Gold medal, multiple cups, over 70 goals in a season, one of the highest scoring Russians in the NHL all time. It's a shame how his career ended though.

It's a shame that Mogilny for whatever reason couldn't find consistency. He has one absolutely dominant season, but then really only 2-3 more seasons (his first season in Vancouver, his one full season in NJ and arguably one of his Toronto seasons) over his entire career where he could have been considered among the league's best. For whatever reason, he tended to explode in his first season with a new team and then coast until he got traded.
 

Hardyvan123

tweet@HardyintheWack
Jul 4, 2010
17,552
24
Vancouver
No way this is true. There is only 247 players in the Hall...Joe Nieuwendyk is not better than a fifth of all players in there. I would be shocked to see you come up with even 40 names that are worse than a guy that has zero All-Star Team selections and only 3 times in the top 20 in points (none in the Top 10) as a forward.

When I have the time I will make a list, maybe it's only 35-40 guys but the point still stands.

As for zero all star selections, that hardly surprising since he played center and in the time he played was the hardest position to crack into the 2 all star spots every year.

He was a top 10 goal scorer (he was more of a scorer than a play maker) 5 times, I would have to look up how many times he was in the top 20) so your top 20 3 times doesn't really show the whole picture.

Adding to that Joe was excellent in face offs and a dependable 2 way player.

He probably won't get in as a player but combined with his executive work he might but the main point still stands he is close to being a Hall guy and there are plenty of guys like Armstrong and Pulford who he is much better than IMO.

Heck he is a better Hall candidate to me than a guy like Glenn Anderson or Dino or Gartner or Dick Duff or Bobby Bauer to name some recent inductee's but that's just my opinion.
 

Hardyvan123

tweet@HardyintheWack
Jul 4, 2010
17,552
24
Vancouver
keep it to the NHL era, otherwise it's just cherrypicking. And so that it's apples to apples, let's just talk about forwards. If you can name 20, kudos.


Working backwards from wehn they were inducted

Dino
Glenn Anderson
Luc Robitaille
Dick Duff
Cam Neely (too short of a career and not enough of a peak to be in)
Clark Gillies,
Bernie Federko
Mike Gartner
Joe Mullen
Michel Goulet
Bobby Bauer
Bun Cook
Edgar Laprade
Steve Shutt
Woody Dumart
Lanny MacDonald
Bob Pulford
Clint Smith
Herbie Lewis
Buddy O'Connor
Bert Olmstead
Rod Gilbert
Johnny Bucyk
Lynn Patrick
George Armstrong
Ace Bailey ( I know his career was cut short by injury but there it is) Gordie Drillon ( 7 seasons)
Billy Burch
Hooley Smith
Busher Jackson
Cooney Weiland
Sid Abel
Ted Kennedy
Syd Howe
Bill Mosienko

I'll stop the list there for now because I have a ball hockey game to go to.

I'm not saying that Joe is better than all of these guys but he is comaprable when you compare what he did for his entire career to what these guys listed did.

Some had better peaks but shorter careers, other had better numbers but brought less overall to their game, ie face offs and 2 way play.

When I have more time I can go over the comparisons (maybe something I might do in the HHOF project we are going to do) and add more NHL only forwards to the list.
 

MXD

Original #4
Oct 27, 2005
50,667
16,392
Working backwards from wehn they were inducted

Dino
Glenn Anderson
Luc Robitaille
Dick Duff
Cam Neely (too short of a career and not enough of a peak to be in)
Clark Gillies,
Bernie Federko
Mike Gartner
Joe Mullen
Michel Goulet
Bobby Bauer
Bun Cook
Edgar Laprade
Steve Shutt
Woody Dumart
Lanny MacDonald
Bob Pulford
Clint Smith
Herbie Lewis
Buddy O'Connor
Bert Olmstead
Rod Gilbert
Johnny Bucyk
Lynn Patrick
George Armstrong
Ace Bailey ( I know his career was cut short by injury but there it is) Gordie Drillon ( 7 seasons)
Billy Burch
Hooley Smith
Busher Jackson
Cooney Weiland
Sid Abel
Ted Kennedy
Syd Howe
Bill Mosienko

I'll stop the list there for now because I have a ball hockey game to go to.

I'm not saying that Joe is better than all of these guys but he is comaprable when you compare what he did for his entire career to what these guys listed did.

Some had better peaks but shorter careers, other had better numbers but brought less overall to their game, ie face offs and 2 way play.

When I have more time I can go over the comparisons (maybe something I might do in the HHOF project we are going to do) and add more NHL only forwards to the list.

Bolded guys are just plain wrong comparables, and using faceoffs as a comparable, then listing MAINLY guys that were wingers is just pointless.

That's like advocating Tom Barasso's place in the HHOF because he was a great stickhandler, and suggest he has a better case than Leo Boivin.

If anything, Hooley Smith is a very, very rich-man Joe Niewendyk.
 

seventieslord

Student Of The Game
Mar 16, 2006
36,080
7,131
Regina, SK
I disagree on well over half of those. And frankly, you should be ashamed to have included Ted Kennedy, Syd Howe, Sid Abel, Busher Jackson, Johnny Bucyk and Hooley Smith. Those guys are all arguable top-100 players and are in a whole other stratosphere from the rest of the list.

You also have to consider, if Nieuwendyk gets in, which modern unindiucted/borderline players become absolute shoo-ins? Off the top of my head and only including forwards - Gilmour, Oates, Middleton, Fleury, Elias, Alfredsson, Hossa, Bure, Lindros, St. Louis, Recchi, Richards, LeClair, Kariya, Sundin, Modano, Andreychuk, Roenick, Propp, Kovalchuk, Turgeon, Tkachuk, and Brind'Amour are all locks if the bar is lowered to include Nieuwendyk. And I don't think I am going too far with any of those, either. Is the purpose of the hall to recognize that many players from one era?

Comparing his long career to guys like Bailey and Drillon may make it appear curious that he's not in and they are, but they were among the handful of the very best forwards of their generation. Nieuwendyk was not. Comparisons that go that far back in time unfortunately ignore that. With some exceptions, like Duff and Laprade.
 

TheDevilMadeMe

Registered User
Aug 28, 2006
52,271
6,980
Brooklyn
LMAO @ comparing Joe Nieuwendyk favorably to Art Ross winner Busher Jackson and Hart trophy winners Sid Abel and Ted Kennedy.

Oh wait, I forgot. The Hall of Fame should be 50% players who played after 1990, right?
 

andreydali19

They're relentless
Jun 19, 2006
1,933
0
Liv. of Mich.
Makarov
Howe
Gilmour
Belfour
Creighton - what, was there skepticism about his contribution that I haven't read about yet?
Zamboni
 
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seventieslord

Student Of The Game
Mar 16, 2006
36,080
7,131
Regina, SK
is Zamboni seriously not in the hall as a builder? wtf?

and Creighton has to get in already. it's like Jean Beliveau not being in as a player.
 

ES

Registered User
Feb 14, 2004
4,151
821
Finland
I have said it many times - no way can four players get in same year unless it's exceptional group of retirees one year.



I say Belfour and Oates get in from the male players. I don't say anything about female players or builders. No referees in until the group who retired last season is eligible.
 

KingGallagherXI

Registered User
Jul 10, 2009
3,890
19
What are the arguments for keeping Bure out of the HOH again?

IMO a player who was 3 times the leading goal scorer should get in.
 

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