HHOF 2019

MaxV

Registered User
Nov 6, 2006
4,888
590
New York, NY
You guys might have more information on this then me, but do former NHL players/coaches/executives have an axe to grind regarding WHA?

It seems to be that way to me. They don’t seem to acknowledge that it even existed, or at least view it as some beer league that had no relevance.

Tremblay is probably the biggest victim of this I would say. Any others?
 

MXD

Original #4
Oct 27, 2005
50,668
16,394
You guys might have more information on this then me, but do former NHL players/coaches/executives have an axe to grind regarding WHA?

It seems to be that way to me. They don’t seem to acknowledge that it even existed, or at least view it as some beer league that had no relevance.

Tremblay is probably the biggest victim of this I would say. Any others?

They did have that axe to grind.
The other players who jumped to the WHA were really can't-miss types though (except, inexplicably, Gerry Cheevers). It's a thing to keep Tremblay out of the HHOF, but it's a whole other thing to do so with Bobby Hull.
 

GlitchMarner

Typical malevolent, devious & vile Maple Leafs fan
Jul 21, 2017
9,712
6,432
Brampton, ON
Because he won 4 Cups, won the Conn Smythe Trophy, and was one of the best clutch playoff performers in NHL History.

Justin Williams has three Cups and a Conn Smythe and is "Mister Game seven."

Butch Goring won four Cups and a Conn Smythe.
 

trentmccleary

Registered User
Mar 2, 2002
22,226
1,100
Alfie-Ville
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What exactly is the argument for Alfredsson over Joseph?

To me, Joseph had the better career

Alfredsson, in my opinion, is in the same tier as Turgeon and Fleury

There's no reasonable way to compare a goalie vs a forward in regards to making the HHOF.

There are questions we can ask individually about their chances:
- Are there similar calibre players with similar careers in the HHOF?
- Is this the best eligible / among the best eligible for their position?
- How good was this player in their era?
 
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ES

Registered User
Feb 14, 2004
4,151
821
Finland
There isn't really slam-dunk first-time inductees. Some obvious Hall of Very Good guys (Boyle, Lecavalier, Richards, Elias) but nothing spectactular.
 

Batis

Registered User
Sep 17, 2014
1,093
1,030
Merida, Mexico
Firsov, Mikhailov, Maltsev and Martinec.

Edit: That is who I think should get in not who I think will get in by the way. Misread the OP.
 

vadim sharifijanov

Registered User
Oct 10, 2007
28,584
15,948
of the new guys, the only one i would consider inducting is patrik elias. but i'd give his case some time and distance to reflect on his place and legacy.

for guys already eligible, it's time for theo fleury. but i fear that people are going to have to die before they'll let him in, because inevitably all the awfulness of graham james will re-enter the news cycle and at this point the only reason he's not in is certain abettors and blind-eye turners have friends in high places.

i see no reason why we can't let alfredsson sit a few more years too. what argument is there for alfredsson over elias other than proximity to toronto and not catching the hep? i don't like comparing with the low/debatable end of the threshold, but a hall that includes federko should also include both elias and alfredsson. i guess i'd be happy to see the committee really think about it and decide whether federko's case (some top tens, good playoff record, face of a franchise) was a good idea or a bad one.

cujo i don't love but i also objectively find it hard to see him outside when all is said and done. i'd give him a few more years to really feel out how glaring his omission is. my only thing with cujo is, let's look at the fifth best goalies of their eras that are in: alec connell, worsley, cheevers, those are guys with multiple cups. cujo has neither the cups, nor the individual accolades to make up for it, not even a single AST2.

if it were me, i'd say to hell with the boys' club and go fleury, tremblay/brewer, a soviet (probably mikhailov), and of course hayley wickenheiser.

but it'll probably be wickenheiser, roenick, cujo, and i wouldn't be surprised if one or both of lecavalier and turgeon round it out.
 

The Macho King

Back* to Back** World Champion
Jun 22, 2011
48,607
28,846
That seems like a very good year to vote in less than four male players.
Unless we put in a lot of Euros/Soviets who didn't play in the NHL, I agree. Honestly, I can't think of anyone who I think is being "shafted" by not being in at the moment. *Maybe* Cujo, but he's the only NHLer I would put in.
 

MXD

Original #4
Oct 27, 2005
50,668
16,394
To be honest.... If I HAD to vote in a player, and an NHL'er...
It would be Theoren Fleury.

Otherwise, it's CuJo. Then Elias. Then Alfie.

But there's really, really no need for four inductees. It's not like the year where Ron Francis was the weakest of the crop.

Edit : Firsov, Mikhaïlov and Maltsev really, really should be in.
 

vadim sharifijanov

Registered User
Oct 10, 2007
28,584
15,948
actually, a hot take: what really separates elias from zetterberg?

i haven't thought about this for more than a second so i'm throwing it out there completely undigested
 

Nick Hansen

Registered User
Sep 28, 2017
3,119
2,649
Who's the worst goalie inducted? Not that that necessarily should be the measure but...

I'd be for Theoren Fleury as well.
 

Vujtek

Registered User
Oct 7, 2007
3,540
627
Gerry Cheevers

Yeah, I was just looking at it and this seems like the correct answer. He's the only goalie in the HHOF without any 1st or 2nd All-Star team selections (awarded since 1931-32 season; George Hainsworth and Alec Connell are the other two played after that without these selections but their prime years were prior to this so they don't count). Cheevers also lacks any other individual accolades from his NHL days (had some while in WHA). Winning two Cups with Orr/Esposito led Bruins are his best achievements.

Overall don't see any other 'weak' goalie selections in HHOF. Can't judge those pre-NHL goalies though so with them I'm just going to assume they were best of the best around those years. Behind Cheevers it just may be that the recent inductee Rogie Vachon is second 'weakest'?
 

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