HHOF 2019
- Thread starter Arselona
- Start date
The Panther
Registered User
Epsilon
#basta
Here's the thing: it never has been.
-There's all sorts of "weird" HOFers from the pre-war/pre-O6 era who didn't really distinguish themselves on the ice.
-Several 2nd-tier/complementary players from the O6 era are routinely viewed as among the weakest post-war HOFers: Dick Duff, Edgar Laprade, Leo Boivin, and so on. There are many players from pre-expansion.
-As the HHOF committee gets more and more populated with 1970-90s retired players, we'll see more elections of guys from that era who compiled good/great out-of-context counting numbers.
The current phase where guys like Housley, Andreychuk, etc. are being inducted and we're thinking Turgeon, Roenick, etc. might be next may be somewhat unique in terms of reason (i.e. it's 1980s-90s specific), but it's not like the HHOF was the "Willy Mays Hall of Fame" (we need a hockey version of this - for those who don't get the reference, it's referring to a mythical, hypothetical baseball HOF where Willy Mays is basically the standard) beforehand.
ForsbergForever
Registered User
- May 19, 2004
- 3,322
- 2,040
For this idea to work effectively, there would be many years when nobody would elected, thus the HoF committee would have to be willing to make the induction of new members a rare event, like electing a new pope. Which now that I write it out, sounds like a very cool idea and would definitely add to the honour of joining the hall ten fold.
All this said, I would still elect a guy like Pavel Bure every day of the week and twice on sunday. He was the epitome of an elite goalscorer and one of the most exciting players in the game despite his abbreviated career due to injury.
Last edited:
tony d
Registered User
Neutrinos
Registered User
- Sep 23, 2016
- 8,600
- 3,609
Seems rather insensitive to hold that against a guy who was dealing with the emotional baggage of being sexually abused by his junior hockey coach
The Panther
Registered User
Here's the thing: When you write down your life story in print, for posterity, knowing that everybody whose path you crossed in the game over decades are going to read it, you have two choices of how to be honest:
1) Tell the hard truth, but be gracious about those who helped you along the way and don't overdo it with the insults
2) Tell the hard truth, and throw nearly everybody you played with and for under the bus
Fleury chose (2). Of course, he deserves credit for his efforts in raising awareness of sexual abuse, but writing things in his book like he failed drug tests 13 times in a row with the Rangers but the NHL didn't want to suspend him because he was a star (Grant Fuhr might disagree) isn't going to sit well with the Hall of Fame committee, nor should it. Fleury also wrote about how people like Pierre Page and Terry Crisp were idiots -- the line of names he insulted in his book is endless.
Maybe this is unfair judgement on my part, but his high-profile, post-hockey anything-for-a-headline lifestyle (Book tours, reality shows, Battle of the Blades, country music album) just seems unbecoming.
I’m a bit conflicted.
It sounds like Mogilny has a good shot and I’ll be happy for him if he does get in.
With that being said, Mogilny should NOT be in before Zubov.
It sounds like Mogilny has a good shot and I’ll be happy for him if he does get in.
With that being said, Mogilny should NOT be in before Zubov.
vadim sharifijanov
Registered User
- Oct 10, 2007
- 28,733
- 16,120
i'm a big mogilny fan, and i don't really like zubov for the HHOF, but i can't argue with this.
Theo Fleury
Carl Brewer
Boris Mikhailov
Hayley Wickenheiser
James Creighton
Frank Zamboni
Don Cherry and Ron MacLean are good candidates too. I'm not sure about referees. Maybe Terry Gregson or Kerry Fraser? Perhaps they won't induct any referee before Dan O'Halloran retires.
Carl Brewer
Boris Mikhailov
Hayley Wickenheiser
James Creighton
Frank Zamboni
Don Cherry and Ron MacLean are good candidates too. I'm not sure about referees. Maybe Terry Gregson or Kerry Fraser? Perhaps they won't induct any referee before Dan O'Halloran retires.
blood gin
Registered User
- Jan 17, 2017
- 4,174
- 2,203
Giotrapani91
Registered User
- Oct 21, 2015
- 564
- 36
Ik people say he wasn't one of the best LA kings but what about Dave Taylor would that be a bad induction or no.
I mean they let Ciccarelli in and he's more of a dirtbag and a worse player then Fleury was.
I mean jeez, no offense to any of those guys but I don't think a single one of them should even be close to the HHOF.
Fantomas
Registered User
- Aug 7, 2012
- 13,290
- 6,619
Hope Zubov makes it, even though I don't think he will (at least for a while). An elite defenseman in both the regular season and the playoffs who, for some reason, got no respect.
It didn't help Zubov that the peak of his career coincided with the 'dead puck era' that began in the '96-97 season.
I see at least three seasons that were Norris caliber, including '97-98 when Zubov got very little consideration. Rob Blake won and I still really don't get what was so special about him that year.
Voters look at trophies to decide on hall of fame candidacy, but trophies can often paint the wrong picture. Trophies tell us that Duncan Keith, a definite HHOF shoo-in, is a much better defenseman than Zubov because of his two Norris trophies and due to that one Conn Smythe he won.
But I really don't buy the idea that Keith was better in his Norris-trophy winning seasons than Zubov was in his best years. Or that Zubov was any worse when he logged 30 minutes to help the Stars win the Cup.
I think Zubov was just a low key guy who didn't make enough friends in high places. But c'est la vie.
It didn't help Zubov that the peak of his career coincided with the 'dead puck era' that began in the '96-97 season.
I see at least three seasons that were Norris caliber, including '97-98 when Zubov got very little consideration. Rob Blake won and I still really don't get what was so special about him that year.
Voters look at trophies to decide on hall of fame candidacy, but trophies can often paint the wrong picture. Trophies tell us that Duncan Keith, a definite HHOF shoo-in, is a much better defenseman than Zubov because of his two Norris trophies and due to that one Conn Smythe he won.
But I really don't buy the idea that Keith was better in his Norris-trophy winning seasons than Zubov was in his best years. Or that Zubov was any worse when he logged 30 minutes to help the Stars win the Cup.
I think Zubov was just a low key guy who didn't make enough friends in high places. But c'est la vie.
Last edited:
DannyGallivan
Your world frightens and confuses me
Wow, what a weak list. Perhaps I'd only go with Firsov and Mikhailov, mainly because the NHLers are so bleh this time around.
vadim sharifijanov
Registered User
- Oct 10, 2007
- 28,733
- 16,120
i’m not convinced that zubov was better/more impactful than hatcher so i can’t ride for him. unless someone wants to make a case for d hatcher getting in too?
duncan keith? really? 2015 duncan keith was up there with the best defenseman playoff runs i’ve seen. honestly i have it no lower than 94 leetch.
duncan keith? really? 2015 duncan keith was up there with the best defenseman playoff runs i’ve seen. honestly i have it no lower than 94 leetch.
GlitchMarner
Typical malevolent, devious & vile Maple Leafs fan
I predicted St.Louis, Brodeur, Roenick and Alfredsson would be in inducted this year. Two were. I say Roenick and Alfie get in next year.
Last edited:
Dissonance Jr
Registered User
- Oct 6, 2017
- 689
- 1,427
Is Wickenheiser eligible next year or 2020? Her stats page says she last played a game in the 2016-17 season and formally retired in January 2017, though all the media reports suggest she's up in 2019...
The Panther
Registered User
I dunno, maybe I have been too hard on the Hall of Fame... there are going to make mistakes here and there; it's inevitable.
Looking back to 2013, I see two players that are sort-of borderline for me, but that I'm okay with -- Shanahan and Blake. All the others since then strike me as legit and proper choices... with the notable exceptions of Andreychuk and Housley.
In fact, going back a dozen years, I'm really okay with everyone except those two. Sure, maybe Ciccarelli and Anderson and Nieuwendyk are borderline, but they're okay.
This year, I'm glad the only (male) players inducted are the two no-brainer Martins, and Willie O'Ree (who is obviously a special case). It could have been a lot worse.
Some tough decisions coming up, but maybe the Hall isn't a total mess yet.
Looking back to 2013, I see two players that are sort-of borderline for me, but that I'm okay with -- Shanahan and Blake. All the others since then strike me as legit and proper choices... with the notable exceptions of Andreychuk and Housley.
In fact, going back a dozen years, I'm really okay with everyone except those two. Sure, maybe Ciccarelli and Anderson and Nieuwendyk are borderline, but they're okay.
This year, I'm glad the only (male) players inducted are the two no-brainer Martins, and Willie O'Ree (who is obviously a special case). It could have been a lot worse.
Some tough decisions coming up, but maybe the Hall isn't a total mess yet.
ChiTownPhilly
Not Too Soft
The next half-dozen selections could be non-NHL Europeans- and it would raise, rather than lower, the standard for the Hall.
If we start down that road, I don't know if we get anywhere worth travelling...
Rare is the list of greatest baseball players that doesn't have Willie Mays at least in the top six. [Bill James puts him at three.] So, if the hockey-equivalent of Willie Mays is designated the median standard {and I'm thinking that someone like Bobby Hull or Maurice Richard might approximate a 'Willie Mays' standard, though this is probably selling the "Say-Hey-Kid" short} you'd have an HoF with a population of around twenty... and you'd be averaging an induction every five years or so.
If you had an "Andy Bathgate" standard, you'd at least give yourself a shot at averaging an annual induction, anyway...
EdmFlyersfan
Registered User
Arselona
Registered User
- Nov 9, 2007
- 586
- 274
I think Messier should be inducted again, for his leadership exclusively this time.
