Line Combos: HFPens Decides - Zucker

What line do you want Zucker to play on?

  • Line 2 - With Malkin and Guentzel

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Line 3 - Centered by Blueger

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    45
  • Poll closed .

Tom Hanks

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Nov 10, 2017
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I don't to be honest. People remember that series far different than I do. I remember PIT trying to play a "grind" game and out Boston, Boston and getting scorched by their offensive talent. Also, Rask going insane. And our power play falling apart. Maybe Hornqvist helps there, but was Kunitz not just as good as front of the net play at that time?

I don’t remember anyone going to the net hard too often. All the shots seemed to be able to be seen well by Rask. When a goalie is that hot you can’t make it easy
 

Peat

Registered User
Jun 14, 2016
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I would say that so far, Zucker's ability to create chances has exceeded what I expected, particularly when with Sid, and that would be part of my thinking in saying Zucker with Sid. Wait and see a bit on what happens this season but right now I'm not that worried about Zucker-Crosby getting shut down in the playoffs. Although it should be noted that if you put Zucker and Kapanen out there you should see some absurdly conservative defence from the other team, and maybe that is an issue.
 
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Empoleon8771

Registered User
Aug 25, 2015
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I just think it is a weird to write off KCD when Crosby had some of his best years with those types of players. Also, I think Kunitz and Zucker's games aren't good comparable.

It's not just KCD though, it's KCD style lines tending to give bad results in the Crosby era.

2014 it was Kunitz-Crosby-Not Malkin (Kunitz-Crosby-Malkin unsurprisingly did amazingly well). Between 2015 and 2016, Kunitz-Crosby-Hornqvist combined for 4 goals in over 100 minutes played (all of which came in 2015, the line was surprisingly good in 2015). I don't think it's a coincidence that all of the best playoff lines for the top line include a grinder (Kunitz, Dupuis and Hornqvist) plus some sort of skilled winger (Guerin, Sullivan, Sheary and Guentzel).

I think a Zucker-Kapanen wing duo falls much closer to having 2 grinders than a grinder and a skilled winger. It makes more sense to me to run with Zucker-Crosby-Rust if you insist on having Guentzel with Malkin. I don't even think Zucker-Rust satisfies my wants as a winger duo for Crosby, but it's at least better than Zucker-Kapanen unless Kapanen takes a step forward. Kapanen to me is just another McCann clone.
 

Empoleon8771

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Aug 25, 2015
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If the Penguins actually had the roster space to do this, I'd actually advocate for them bringing Sheary back or signing another guy similar to Sheary for cheap and running with:

Zucker-Crosby-Sheary/FA
Guentzel-Malkin-Rust
McCann-Jankowski-Kapanen

Granlund would be perfect, the exact kind of winger I'd sign in that scenario, but I think he's likely too expensive for what little money the Penguins have left.
 

Gurglesons

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Dec 18, 2009
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lol, naw dog, get back to me when Zucker has more than one season of 30+ goals or 60 points...

Zucker has been playing in the worst offensive system in the West for years versus Kunitz playing top line minutes on more offensive oriented systems in PIT and ANA.

Also you realize Kunitz never put up more than 1 30 goal season right?

I really wonder why people are so critical of Zucker around here. He was one of the best play drivers prior to coming here on a shit offensive team. And then people heartthrob over Granlund.
 

Andy99

Registered User
Jun 26, 2017
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Zucker has been playing in the worst offensive system in the West for years versus Kunitz playing top line minutes on more offensive oriented systems in PIT and ANA.

Also you realize Kunitz never put up more than 1 30 goal season right?

Yes, but he had three seasons of 60+ points and the injury shortened season in 2012-13, he was on pace for more than 30 goals and 60 points...
 

Empoleon8771

Registered User
Aug 25, 2015
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I think Zucker is basically the same caliber of player as Kunitz. You can nitpick either way about who you think is better, but I think they're both play-driving complementary top-6 wingers who should be good for about 25-30 goals and 55-60 points over a full season. That's pretty much exactly what Zucker was on pace for this year, and his pace after coming to Pittsburgh was even better than that.

If Zucker gets substantial top PP unit time with Hornqvist's departure, I'm expecting 30-30 next year (pro-rated of course).
 

Gurglesons

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Dec 18, 2009
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Yes, but he had three seasons of 60+ points and the injury shortened season in 2012-13, he was on pace for more than 30 goals and 60 points...

While being with Sidney Crosby. 07-08 was an insanely high year around the league in terms of production and Kunitz has always been reliant on power play production. It's why his production fell off a cliff with us after Hornqvist took his spot on PP1.

Zucker's been a 20 ES G guy prior to coming here effectively three times.
 
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Gurglesons

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Dec 18, 2009
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I think Zucker is basically the same caliber of player as Kunitz. You can nitpick either way about who you think is better, but I think they're both play-driving complementary top-6 wingers who should be good for about 25-30 goals and 55-60 points over a full season. That's pretty much exactly what Zucker was on pace for this year, and his pace after coming to Pittsburgh was even better than that.

If Zucker gets substantial top PP unit time with Hornqvist's departure, I'm expecting 30-30 next year (pro-rated of course).

That's true, but we are talking about ES right? Zucker is a much better driver of play individually at 5v5 in his career versus Kunitz. Well, versus Kunitz prior to being strapped to Crosby.

I guess my point would be. Kunitz is a third wheel on a great line. Zucker is going to be the best winger on a great line in most cases.
 

Empoleon8771

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Aug 25, 2015
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Yeah, Kunitz did get a lot more powerplay production than Zucker has over his career. In Kunitz's 5.5 year prime in Pittsburgh (2009-2014), he did have roughly a pace of 66 points per 82 games, but he only averaged about 47 ES points per 82 games. For comparison, Zucker's last 4 years have him at a pace of 40 ES points, and that's with playing for Minnesota. The biggest drivers in their point difference come from powerplay production and differences between teams, not a difference in ability.

That's true, but we are talking about ES right? Zucker is a much better driver of play individually at 5v5 in his career versus Kunitz. Well, versus Kunitz prior to being strapped to Crosby.

I guess my point would be. Kunitz is a third wheel on a great line. Zucker is going to be the best winger on a great line in most cases.

This is way too far IMO. Kunitz was always a fantastic play driver at ES his entire career. The production difference at ES isn't significant, and I think it can mostly be chalked up to "one plays with Crosby and the other one doesn't". But I think it's too far to say that Zucker is a "much better driver of play" than Kunitz is. They're basically equally as talented players, which says how good both Zucker is now and Kunitz was then.
 

Gurglesons

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Dec 18, 2009
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Yeah, Kunitz did get a lot more powerplay production than Zucker has over his career. In Kunitz's 5.5 year prime in Pittsburgh (2009-2014), he did have roughly a pace of 66 points per 82 games, but he only averaged about 47 ES points per 82 games. For comparison, Zucker's last 4 years have him at a pace of 40 ES points, and that's with playing for Minnesota. The biggest drivers in their point difference come from powerplay production and differences between teams, not a difference in ability.



This is way too far IMO. Kunitz was always a fantastic play driver at ES his entire career. The production difference at ES isn't significant, and I think it can mostly be chalked up to "one plays with Crosby and the other one doesn't". But I think it's too far to say that Zucker is a "much better driver of play" than Kunitz is. They're basically equally as talented players, which says how good both Zucker is now and Kunitz was then.

Is Jason Zucker Pittsburgh's X-Factor?

Zucker was very, very good in Minnesota.
 

CrosbyMalkin

Registered User
Aug 7, 2005
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I mean, I think we've seen enough KCD style lines fail with the Penguins to conclude that it's not a good idea to run with that in the playoffs this year. Kunitz-Crosby-Stempniak failed in 2014 and Kunitz-Crosby-Hornqvist failed in 2015, just as KCD failed in 2013.

I think past success of Crosby lines suggests that the appropriate way to build his line is having 1 skilled winger and 1 grinding winger. When you have 2 grinders, you have a problem supporting Crosby offensively. When you have 2 skilled wingers (namely with Guentzel-Crosby-Sheary), you have problems with physicality of playoff games. I don't think it's a coincidence that if you were asked to name the best "playoff lines" the Penguins have had for Crosby, your top answers would all have 1 physical winger and 1 scoring/skilled winger.

My question to you is are you trying to say that Crosby's wingers for the 2016 Cup playoffs are more skilled than Zucker and Kapanen. If so you are very wrong. Just because Zucker and Kapanen have some grit to them doesn't mean they don't have skill. Both have more skill than either winger Crosby had for the 2016 playoffs and frankly it is not close.

The only winger on that 2016 squad with more skill than one of our wingers in our current top six was Kessel who played on the 3rd line. That playoffs we had players like old last leg Kunitz, Hornqvist, rookie Sheary, and rookie Rust. Guentzel, developed Rust, Zucker, and Kapanen have more skill than any of those 4 wingers that played in the top 6 for those playoffs in 2016. I think your reaching.
 
Last edited:

EightyOne

My posts are jokes. And hockey is just a game.
Nov 23, 2016
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Id rather have a sub30YO Kunitz than Zucker

I don't even like Kunitz
 

Tom Hanks

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Nov 10, 2017
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Id rather have a sub30YO Kunitz than Zucker

I don't even like Kunitz

I think you’ll like Zucker more after this season.

Not getting into a who’s better either Kunitz was great for us too. I think Zucker is in for a real nice year with Sid.
 

EightyOne

My posts are jokes. And hockey is just a game.
Nov 23, 2016
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12,034
Weird. Have you watched Zucker play here?

What about his game makes you want more?

That chippy, grindy, little shit aspect that a younger Kunitz really had

Dunno who gets more POINTS but I dunno...does Zucker really have that much more physical presence?
 

EightyOne

My posts are jokes. And hockey is just a game.
Nov 23, 2016
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I think you’re wanting a type of player that simply doesn’t exist in today’s game.

I also think people mythicized Kunitz because of one hit.

Possible. I just hope the chemistry takes off with him on the first line. Or really, that Sids ab injury is actually healed. It wont matter how much chemistry there is if Sid is still f***ed.
 

EightyOne

My posts are jokes. And hockey is just a game.
Nov 23, 2016
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Zucker isn’t going to be on the first line.

4806951.jpg
 
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Honour Over Glory

Fire Sully
Jan 30, 2012
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Want none of the above options but if this is what’s left I’ll go option A. I wanted him with Sid anyway just wanted a different RW.
I would have actually wanted this...

Poulin, Crosby, Kapanen
Guentzel, Malkin, Rust
McCann, Blueger, Zucker
Rodrigues/Lafferty, Jankowski, Tanev
 

Tom Hanks

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Nov 10, 2017
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I would have actually wanted this...

Poulin, Crosby, Kapanen
Guentzel, Malkin, Rust
McCann, Blueger, Zucker
Rodrigues/Lafferty, Jankowski, Tanev

Im not banking on Poulin yet. Not to start the season anyway. What makes it difficult is he can’t play in the AHL.

That would have been nice. Play half a season in the AHL and come up for injuries. See how he goes. If he’s not ready give him advice on what he needs to work and send him back down. If or when he’s ready make a roster spot for him.
 

Gurglesons

Registered User
Dec 18, 2009
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San Diego, CA
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Im not banking on Poulin yet. Not to start the season anyway. What makes it difficult is he can’t play in the AHL.

That would have been nice. Play half a season in the AHL and come up for injuries. See how he goes. If he’s not ready give him advice on what he needs to work and send him back down. If or when he’s ready make a roster spot for him.

We don’t have any idea how they are going to handle this situation. Easy for every other sport to move schedules around or quarantine specific players, but Vegas wouldn’t be able to play if the A isn’t around and they lose 4 players minimum to COVID positives.
 

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