Line Combos: HFPens Decides - Jake Guentzel

Who do you want Jake Guentzel to play with?


  • Total voters
    74
  • Poll closed .

AuroraBorealis

Back-to-back hater
Oct 16, 2018
18,978
16,486
Vancouver, British Columbia
Agreed. Problem was Malkin didnt benefit from him being on his line. When Guentzel could have possibly got him going. And that could have been the difference for that series.

When it was such a short series and a scenario we have never seen before, why wouldnt you go with Jake/Geno and Zucker/Sid? Since those were the only combos we have seen in a game. He didnt even switch to it during the final loss when we were shutout....thats the issue I have. When mind is made up....its win or lose with that decision.

Hornqvist being stuck on 3rd line for last 2 playoffs another example. Where he not only didnt fit at all and made the 3rd line a non factor but they refused to put him with Sid where hes always worked well in the playoffs. So its not like he didnt have any other option. But With that not being an option(to them) for playoffs, the trade for Sheary was made. Losing Kahun(when he would have gelled better with that 3rd line) as well. Happened instead.

Kind of why Im glad Hornqvist was traded only because they forced him to play on the 3rd line. Doesnt matter if Sid didnt like playing with him or not, didnt have to for most of reg season. But if we cant find a better option for playoffs then why not go back to that? Its not like they would need much prep to gel again. That Never made sense , never will.
Well you won't catch me defending Sully's decisions in either of the last 3 playoffs. The big difference from 2016 and 2017 to now is he's let loyalty and attachment creep into his line-up choices. Performance used to be the clear dictator.

The goaltending decision was the worst of all. One was so much better in the regular season and so much better in the 2nd camp. Heard Yohe on a podcast talking about it, saying he was one of the few reporters following that camp. He said the gap could not have been more obvious, and you could see it every day. He thought the decision was outrageous.

That's not to say Murray was the sole reason we lost. He definitely wasn't. But that is the most influential position on the ice and you can't just roll the dice like that with the season on the line. For me that's a fireable decision.

I'm also glad Horny's in a better situation now. The lack of respect towards him leading up to that trade disgusted me. How could Rutherford do that, with how Horny gave his blood for the team?
 

Flying Dego

Registered User
Apr 30, 2013
5,248
6,424
Hey...I was pulling numbers out of my ass alright :laugh:. I just think that yes Sid and Geno are older but Sid has shown that he can be a top line in the league with 3rd and 4th line players. Geno can do it as well. So by giving them lesser but complimentary players, they can still be top lines in the league, but now you have extra talent on the 3rd and 4th line. It might not work, but it should at least be worth a shot. Tanev could very well be the next Dupuis. Erod may not excite a lot of people, but he has enough skill that he could be a good complimentary player, same with Lafferty. Poulin might not be ready, but if you ease him in it could free up another top 6 player for the bottom 6. Not to mention that we really don't know how Janks is going to fit in, he could surprise and be the perfect compliment to Geno (not likely, but who knows), or he could disappoint and be 4th line fodder. So yeah, they might not be 9's or 10's, but it is possible to get 3 ~8's and a decent 4th. I know that it is a little risky betting that Sid and Geno can still carry top lines, primarily on their own. But I think it should at least be considered. My biggest issue is that we know that McCann can't carry a 3rd line all on his own and will need some better talent to work with, yet Sully doesn't sound like he is going to give it to him. Regardless I would like to at least see a game where McCann has one of Zucker, Kappy or Rust just to see what they can do. We know that McCann has a great shot, but he needs someone that can help get the puck and help get him the puck and I just don't see that coming from the players that are currently penciled in with him. Of course I could be proven wrong and I actually hope that I am.
giphy.gif


I'm all for creative discussion but you're way to optimistic on those players being impact pieces. I don't even know where to begin...

Do you remember how Dupuis with Crosby worked well in the regular season only to magically stop working come playoff time?

The stars are older and cannot be expected to carry garbage like Jankowski, Lafferty, Rodrigues...I use garbage in terms of top 6 talent...they could be fine 4th line players...hell an optimistic person might even think one of them could be an average 3rd liner.

By all means keep that optimism...this world has zapped all of mine.

McCann should be on LW and Teddy is being underrated I feel. He's going to be a good 3C, replacing ZAR with McCann should give the old 'BART line' an actual scoring threat.
 

RSPens

Registered User
May 25, 2015
1,888
939
giphy.gif


I'm all for creative discussion but you're way to optimistic on those players being impact pieces. I don't even know where to begin...

Do you remember how Dupuis with Crosby worked well in the regular season only to magically stop working come playoff time?

The stars are older and cannot be expected to carry garbage like Jankowski, Lafferty, Rodrigues...I use garbage in terms of top 6 talent...they could be fine 4th line players...hell an optimistic person might even think one of them could be an average 3rd liner.

By all means keep that optimism...this world has zapped all of mine.

McCann should be on LW and Teddy is being underrated I feel. He's going to be a good 3C, replacing ZAR with McCann should give the old 'BART line' an actual scoring threat.

Well we will see, but from what we are hearing McCann is penciled in as the 3C. If you think McCann as 3C will work with any of the guys we have in the bottom 6 without one of Rust, Kappy or Zucker, then I have a bridge to sell you.

In the past the team tried ZAR in the top 6, Simon played a lot with Sid, Guentzel and Rust were not projected to be top line players. So be pessimistic about the depth players that the team has, but we have seen 3rd and 4th line players work with Sid and Geno throughout their careers. It could work again.
 

Flying Dego

Registered User
Apr 30, 2013
5,248
6,424
Well we will see, but from what we are hearing McCann is penciled in as the 3C. If you think McCann as 3C will work with any of the guys we have in the bottom 6 without one of Rust, Kappy or Zucker, then I have a bridge to sell you.

In the past the team tried ZAR in the top 6, Simon played a lot with Sid, Guentzel and Rust were not projected to be top line players. So be pessimistic about the depth players that the team has, but we have seen 3rd and 4th line players work with Sid and Geno throughout their careers. It could work again.

Sounds like we are opening the 3C poll soon so I won't dive into this here...

In no reality did we see success with Simon or ZAR up in the top 6....Crosby and Malkin are 33/34...they are done carrying stone handed, non creative players.

I'm not really even pessimistic about our depth players when played in limited roles...but I sure am if you expect me to jump on board with those clowns playing impact minutes.
 

RSPens

Registered User
May 25, 2015
1,888
939
Sounds like we are opening the 3C poll soon so I won't dive into this here...

In no reality did we see success with Simon or ZAR up in the top 6....Crosby and Malkin are 33/34...they are done carrying stone handed, non creative players.

I'm not really even pessimistic about our depth players when played in limited roles...but I sure am if you expect me to jump on board with those clowns playing impact minutes.
I'm not saying that they will be successful but if they never tried Rust or Guentzel in the top six then we would never have known that they work there. Sure, we have more players that didn't work in the top 6 than players that did/do, but they were at least given a shot. I don't see why you wouldn't want to at least try Jake - Sid - Tanev or Zucker - Geno - Poulin. If either of these lines work that frees up either Kappy or Rust or possibly both to play with McCann. Or maybe go another route and have McCann - Geno - Rust and have Zucker - Blueger/Jankowski- Tanev. There are a lot of interesting possibilities if the coach were to focus on complementary lines and not just throwing all the best players on the top two lines. Remember that Sid and Geno are older and being forced to throw either top line out basically every shift is going to wear them out. It's an interesting debate to have, is it better to have players that can help carry the top lines and lean on them, or is it better to spread the talent around so that the team doesn't have to rely on Sid and Geno as much?
 

Flying Dego

Registered User
Apr 30, 2013
5,248
6,424
I'm not saying that they will be successful but if they never tried Rust or Guentzel in the top six then we would never have known that they work there. Sure, we have more players that didn't work in the top 6 than players that did/do, but they were at least given a shot. I don't see why you wouldn't want to at least try Jake - Sid - Tanev or Zucker - Geno - Poulin. If either of these lines work that frees up either Kappy or Rust or possibly both to play with McCann. Or maybe go another route and have McCann - Geno - Rust and have Zucker - Blueger/Jankowski- Tanev. There are a lot of interesting possibilities if the coach were to focus on complementary lines and not just throwing all the best players on the top two lines. Remember that Sid and Geno are older and being forced to throw either top line out basically every shift is going to wear them out. It's an interesting debate to have, is it better to have players that can help carry the top lines and lean on them, or is it better to spread the talent around so that the team doesn't have to rely on Sid and Geno as much?

Hey, its the off-season make a poll and let the masses decide. I think you'll be in the minority of removing talent from the stars. :popcorn:

Giving Poulin a shot is way different than giving Jank, Rod or Laff a shot. That seems self explanatory why. I don't think Poulin will be ready for big minutes this coming season BUT if he were that'd obviously be a game changer for the teams scoring depth.

My hangup is you trying to put players that are mediocre to bad up into high minute roles.
 

RSPens

Registered User
May 25, 2015
1,888
939
Hey, its the off-season make a poll and let the masses decide. I think you'll be in the minority of removing talent from the stars. :popcorn:

Giving Poulin a shot is way different than giving Jank, Rod or Laff a shot. That seems self explanatory why. I don't think Poulin will be ready for big minutes this coming season BUT if he were that'd obviously be a game changer for the teams scoring depth.

My hangup is you trying to put players that are mediocre to bad up into high minute roles.
Again...we thought that Dupuis, Rust, Guentzel, Simon, ZAR...were mediocre to bad when they were first added to the system. With a few of these guys, we figured out that they were complementary to the stars and they worked well in those roles. Sure ZAR didn't work and people got frustrated with Simon, but they were at least given a shot. Remember that Dupuis was just a throw in when he was traded here and then at one point he was a part of one of the best lines that Crosby has had in his career. There is nothing wrong with thinking that one of the many guys that you say are mediocre to bad, may actually surprise and actually work well with Sid or Geno. Sure the probability is low, but we have seen it before. It is a moot point though because at this point you are correct in thinking that Sully will just throw the top talent on the top lines. I mean it is the easiest thing to do.
 

Flying Dego

Registered User
Apr 30, 2013
5,248
6,424
Again...we thought that Dupuis, Rust, Guentzel, Simon, ZAR...were mediocre to bad when they were first added to the system. With a few of these guys, we figured out that they were complementary to the stars and they worked well in those roles. Sure ZAR didn't work and people got frustrated with Simon, but they were at least given a shot. Remember that Dupuis was just a throw in when he was traded here and then at one point he was a part of one of the best lines that Crosby has had in his career. There is nothing wrong with thinking that one of the many guys that you say are mediocre to bad, may actually surprise and actually work well with Sid or Geno. Sure the probability is low, but we have seen it before. It is a moot point though because at this point you are correct in thinking that Sully will just throw the top talent on the top lines. I mean it is the easiest thing to do.

So there's a definitive break in thought for me here...so for instance

I am all for giving prospects with legitimate talent a shot. Poulin/Legare.

I am not very interested in more well known commodities as Rodrigues/ZAR/Jank/Laff taking time in the top 6. Now if/when injuries strike and Jankowski rejuvenates himself. Fine take a looksie.

Dupuis was a good 3rd wheel in the regular season. When checking tightened up he could not produce enough and teams contained Sid. Both he and Geno need players to take pressure off and provide an actual threat. None of those bottom 6 players will provide that.
 

Tom Hanks

Spelling mistakes brought to you by my iPhone.
Nov 10, 2017
30,408
32,434
So there's a definitive break in thought for me here...so for instance

I am all for giving prospects with legitimate talent a shot. Poulin/Legare.

I am not very interested in more well known commodities as Rodrigues/ZAR/Jank/Laff taking time in the top 6. Now if/when injuries strike and Jankowski rejuvenates himself. Fine take a looksie.

Dupuis was a good 3rd wheel in the regular season. When checking tightened up he could not produce enough and teams contained Sid. Both he and Geno need players to take pressure off and provide an actual threat. None of those bottom 6 players will provide that.


One difference when mentioning Dupuis is that he had Kunitz on the other wing who couldn’t drive the play either so Sid could be double teamed. Now with a Jake that won’t happen as often or if it does Jake will make em pay

Edit: I’m all for our best wingers in the top 6 though
 

RSPens

Registered User
May 25, 2015
1,888
939
Okay...I guess I am in the minority but what happened the last time we had our best winger on the 3rd line? Just saying.
 

Tacitus Kilgore

Registered User
May 26, 2010
6,669
7,193
Potomac, MD
Okay...I guess I am in the minority but what happened the last time we had our best winger on the 3rd line? Just saying.

No one predicted the impact of HBK and trying to recreate it is a waste of time that could be spent gelling the top 2 lines.

HBK wasn't even as effective in the 2nd year of the playoffs anyway and wasnt much of a force in the regular season either. It was lightning in a bottle

Also we don't have a good playmaking 3rd line center in Bonino anymore or a play driver like Hags who was also great defensively. One could argue that Erod could be like Hags but again that's a gamble
 

RSPens

Registered User
May 25, 2015
1,888
939
No one predicted the impact of HBK and trying to recreate it is a waste of time that could be spent gelling the top 2 lines.

HBK wasn't even as effective in the 2nd year of the playoffs anyway and wasnt much of a force in the regular season either. It was lightning in a bottle
It's not about recreating HBK. It's about taking some of the focus off of Sid and Geno, and giving McCann some help. As we saw with Sid hurt, McCann can be very useful when he has some actual tallent with him. Sure we can all hope that Kappanen works with Sid or Geno, where he didn't really work with Mathews or Tavares. But he was very good on the third line for Toronto. This is more what I am trying to get at. Yes Sid and Geno are older, but with one good winger each and a complementary player, they can be almost as good as having 2 good wingers each. But in this situation, now you have the potential to have one of the best 3rd lines in the NHL...playing against 3rd pairing D. Isn't that ideal? I am just thinking that having very strong pairs (Jake and Sid, Geno and Zucker/Rust/Kapp, McCann and Zucker/Rust/Kapp) and then a complementary player for each pair is the best option. But who knows...maybe going with the NHL 21 model of loading the lines and not having to worry about endurance is the way to go...
 

K Fleur

Sacrifice
Mar 28, 2014
15,381
25,491
Good thing is Guentzel is incredible with both of them. That’s one of the strongest things he brings to this team.

I’m more interested in what line Kapanen ends up on cause I don’t think it will be Crosby’s. Atleast not for long.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Soggy Biscuit

JTG

Registered User
Sep 30, 2007
50,369
5,669
Good thing is Guentzel is incredible with both of them. That’s one of the strongest things he brings to this team.

I’m more interested in what line Kapanen ends up on cause I don’t think it will be Crosby’s. Atleast not for long.

Jake plays probably the most universal game I've ever seen from a player. You could legitimately throw him with any player on this roster and the guys he plays with are going to produce.
 

Ugene Magic

EVIL LAUGH
Oct 17, 2008
54,148
18,549
Pittsburgh
Jake plays probably the most universal game I've ever seen from a player. You could legitimately throw him with any player on this roster and the guys he plays with are going to produce.

That's being a little optimistic considering he's had very limited time doing such to come to this conclusion. What will happen is you'll see a reduction in Jake's overall production because Jake is now the driver of the line. Switching Jake from Sid/Geno's line is one thing, but take them away? I think you just went from 40G and 80+ points to 30G 50/60 points overnight. Maybe worse. Either Sid or Geno go down Jake's still with either top center. The one time Jake was on line 3 it was Guentzel, Sheahan, Kessel. He wasn't the driver, but they produced at a lesser rate. Now take away any top talent (not really been done) and what will you get?
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->