Line Combos: HFPens Decides - Jake Guentzel

[vodeni]

Like the submarine?

Anyways.... I think where Jake goes definitely depends on who Zucker develops chemistry with.

wrong...Jake will be with Sid no matter what unless Sid gets hurt....

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I like Jake with Rusty. I don't care who centers them.

Very well. Jankowski it is.

 

[Flying Dego]

Crosby's reaction to this treasonous poll:

 

[Tom Hanks]

Crosby's reaction to this treasonous poll:

But he’d have a nice smile on his face

 

[vikingGoalie]

should be with geno and rust. Zucker and KK with Crosby.

but Sid has tremendous say-so on whom he skates with, and he's gonna want Jake....

 

[Flying Dego]

should be with geno and rust. Zucker and KK with Crosby.

but Sid has tremendous say-so on whom he skates with, and he's gonna want Jake....

Crosby gets first pick of the wings and he knows it...

 

[EightyOne]

But he’d have a nice smile on his face

*sid taps HFPens' glove away on ice*

 

[Tacitus Kilgore]

Imo there isn't necessarily a wrong answer out of whether Jake plays with Sid or Geno. I think the question is, who should Zucker play with.

Having said that. I prefer Jake with Malkin, he needs more assistance at his current age than Sid imo.

 

[NMK11]

He'd obviously be great with either center, and wouldn't have been surprised for this poll to go in either direction. I am, however, surprised that it's a near 2:1 vote. Expected it to be closer.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

He'd obviously be great with either center, and wouldn't have been surprised for this poll to go in either direction. I am, however, surprised that it's a near 2:1 vote. Expected it to be closer.

This thread is more about Zucker than it is Jake. And you'd have a hard time convincing anyone Zucker wasn't thriving with Sid.

We all know Jake's a swiss army knife.

Seems like a no-brainer. Sullivan gets attached to certain combinations or favorites yhough, so it wouldn't surprise me one iota for him to do the opposite of what we want.

That being said, I don't think it's a foregone conclusion at all that Zucker couldn't work with Malkin. He's a mature, smart player who can adapt. We may be selling him short. He did bag 2 goals in the playoffs without Sid.

 

[RSPens]

The problem with this pole is that we know that unless Sid gets hurt, Jake is playing with him. It doesn't matter if Zucker plays better with Sid and struggles with Geno. We should all know by now that Geno will get second pick of the wings and be told to suck it up and deal with it. It's just what happens here. Now it might not matter if Sid picks Rust as his RW, but from what Sully has said it is going to be Kappy. Jake - Sid - Kappy may be a good line, but I just don't like Zucker and Rust together. Hopefully they will prove a lot of us wrong.

 

[Andy99]

If Kappy is Krappy with Sid, we know that Sullivan won’t blink an eye to move Rust away from Geno and reunite him with Jake and Sid...it’s hard not being the favorite child...

 

[SEALBound]

If Kappy is Krappy with Sid, we know that Sullivan won’t blink an eye to move Rust away from Geno and reunite him with Jake and Sid...it’s hard not being the favorite child...

Thems the breaks with Sid being more difficult to play with. I don't think Rust's goal scoring is 100% dependent on Malkin. I think Rust would have scored similar totals if he spent the same amount of time with Sid last year. Could be wrong though.

While I do hope Kappy sticks with Sid, I also hope they mix things up a bit just to get an idea of who works with who. I don't want the first time Sid gets someone or Malkin gets someone new is when things are tense in the middle of a game they are losing.

I wouldn't mind Jake, Zucker, Rust, Kappy, McCann, and maybe one or two more like Poulin (this is in came mind you) all getting a rotation with all centers.

Who knows: Rust-Sid-Kappy, Zucker-Malkin-Guentzel would be what sticks. What is Rust and Kappy blow up with Jankowski. Wouldnt that be fun?

McCann-Sid-Jake
Zucker-Malkin-Poulin
Rust-Jankowski-Kapanen

OOooooooo!!! Ahhhhhhh! Oooooooo!!! Ahhhhhh!!!

 

[The Old Master]

The problem with this pole is that we know that unless Sid gets hurt, Jake is playing with him.

yeah! we are just going on common sense ..... why in the world would we expect that from our coach.

 

[Tacitus Kilgore]

Thems the breaks with Sid being more difficult to play with. I don't think Rust's goal scoring is 100% dependent on Malkin. I think Rust would have scored similar totals if he spent the same amount of time with Sid last year. Could be wrong though.

While I do hope Kappy sticks with Sid, I also hope they mix things up a bit just to get an idea of who works with who. I don't want the first time Sid gets someone or Malkin gets someone new is when things are tense in the middle of a game they are losing.

I wouldn't mind Jake, Zucker, Rust, Kappy, McCann, and maybe one or two more like Poulin (this is in came mind you) all getting a rotation with all centers.

Who knows: Rust-Sid-Kappy, Zucker-Malkin-Guentzel would be what sticks. What is Rust and Kappy blow up with Jankowski. Wouldnt that be fun?

McCann-Sid-Jake
Zucker-Malkin-Poulin
Rust-Jankowski-Kapanen

OOooooooo!!! Ahhhhhhh! Oooooooo!!! Ahhhhhh!!!

Can't help but think of the Iggy fiasco when I see Jake(our best winger) playing on his off wing, for the purpose of fitting McCann on Sid's wing

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

This thread is more about Zucker than it is Jake. And you'd have a hard time convincing anyone Zucker wasn't thriving with Sid.

We all know Jake's a swiss army knife.

Seems like a no-brainer. Sullivan gets attached to certain combinations or favorites yhough, so it wouldn't surprise me one iota for him to do the opposite of what we want.

That being said, I don't think it's a foregone conclusion at all that Zucker couldn't work with Malkin. He's a mature, smart player who can adapt. We may be selling him short. He did bag 2 goals in the playoffs without Sid.

Agreed. Problem was Malkin didnt benefit from him being on his line. When Guentzel could have possibly got him going. And that could have been the difference for that series.

When it was such a short series and a scenario we have never seen before, why wouldnt you go with Jake/Geno and Zucker/Sid? Since those were the only combos we have seen in a game. He didnt even switch to it during the final loss when we were shutout....thats the issue I have. When mind is made up....its win or lose with that decision.

Hornqvist being stuck on 3rd line for last 2 playoffs another example. Where he not only didnt fit at all and made the 3rd line a non factor but they refused to put him with Sid where hes always worked well in the playoffs. So its not like he didnt have any other option. But With that not being an option(to them) for playoffs, the trade for Sheary was made. Losing Kahun(when he would have gelled better with that 3rd line) as well. Happened instead.

Kind of why Im glad Hornqvist was traded only because they forced him to play on the 3rd line. Doesnt matter if Sid didnt like playing with him or not, didnt have to for most of reg season. But if we cant find a better option for playoffs then why not go back to that? Its not like they would need much prep to gel again. That Never made sense , never will.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Can't help but think of the Iggy fiasco when I see Jake(our best winger) playing on his off wing, for the purpose of fitting McCann on Sid's wing

Guentzel has experience playing RW tho. They even list him as able to play both. Of course LW is his preferred spot but hes capable of both. And the way he plays I dont see it as much of an issue. Its not like hes a Neal/Kessel type player where that means a lot more. If we "had" to move someone i would choose him. Since he succeeds no matter where they put him.

I dont know if I would do that to have McCann on line 1 tho. I still think he should be 3LW so he doesnt have any added pressure. Hes already had enough of that. From going back and forth to C and W. Up and down the lineup. Never getting to create sustained chemistry with a line. While being traded twice before the age of 23.

Now that we went and got another 3C, he can finally play his game at 3LW. And develop without worrying about being the savior at 3C or keeping up with Crosby(Sid doesnt like tunnels). So I wouldnt mess with him again by putting him on line 1 now , adding that extra pressure once again. Lets just let him play his game and see the results. Could see that breakout season. +20 goals - +40 pts.

3rd line of McCann - Blueger/Jankowksi - Kapanen (if we are having Guentzel at 1RW) would be much better. Then go out and add a LW. Or if Poulin becomes the next Rust/Guentzel this year then we could just have him at 1RW anyway. Keeping the others in their normal positions.

Tho Id put Zucker as 1LW. Guentzel at 2LW. Unless after more time together , Zucker gels better with Geno. But it was nice to see Malkin excited again when having wingers as good as Guentzel and Rust. The results were there. Maybe he finds that with Zucker too but if not I hope its changed. We also already know Zucker and Sid work well together. Not a tough decision. Malkin is the one we should be focusing on keeping happy/energized anyway. When he isnt on top of his game we usually lose. See 2017 playoffs against Caps...Both Sid and Jake had 21 pts each in 12 games. Malkin and Hags being hurt is what cost us. We know Crosby will do his part even when its not showing up on the scoreboard. Malkin is a different player. Need to be treated differently. Thats if we want to get the most out of him. Also it would be nice to make him happy with his contract ending in 2 years. Hes already said he would like to extend it til the length of Crosby is signed for. Make him want to stay here and win more cups to the point where he chooses to take a deal around 6.5 mil a year or so. Saving us 3 mil to add elsewhere. Its something I can see him doing. And maybe thats the 3 mil we will have to be able to extend Rust if we want. Who is UFA that same year.

Got into a diff topic all together but when talking about Guentzel, tough not to think about Malkin.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Thems the breaks with Sid being more difficult to play with. I don't think Rust's goal scoring is 100% dependent on Malkin. I think Rust would have scored similar totals if he spent the same amount of time with Sid last year. Could be wrong though.

While I do hope Kappy sticks with Sid, I also hope they mix things up a bit just to get an idea of who works with who. I don't want the first time Sid gets someone or Malkin gets someone new is when things are tense in the middle of a game they are losing.

I wouldn't mind Jake, Zucker, Rust, Kappy, McCann, and maybe one or two more like Poulin (this is in came mind you) all getting a rotation with all centers.

Who knows: Rust-Sid-Kappy, Zucker-Malkin-Guentzel would be what sticks. What is Rust and Kappy blow up with Jankowski. Wouldnt that be fun?

McCann-Sid-Jake
Zucker-Malkin-Poulin
Rust-Jankowski-Kapanen

OOooooooo!!! Ahhhhhhh! Oooooooo!!! Ahhhhhh!!!

That 3rd line would constantly be on odd man rushes from how many giveaways theyd force. All 3 of those guys are great PKers and Jankowski had 5 SH goals in one season while Kap had 4. MJ likes to use his reach to create that type of situation. When that line is in our own zone , Id have Jankowski ready to do his thing when the puck is moved out to the point. Kap and Rust both take off down the ice while Jankowski breaks up the pass before the opposing team has a chance to respond.

I do wonder how that line would play when they are on the forecheck tho. We know what Rust does, but both MJ and Kap are new. They could make it work , if planned to get the most out of each of them. Jankowski has a pretty accurate shot. While Rust and Kap are great at working around the net for their goals. Get the puck back out to Jankowski for a quick shot. That line could work. Blueger could work with them as well tho.

And I wouldnt count out Tanev playing as the 3rd wheel to the 3C line if Jankowski sticks at that spot. Hes had some past experience with him not too long ago. I dont think Tanev and Blueger need to be stapled going forward after one season together. Lets not forget Tanev is getting paid more than most of the bottom 6 combined. And more term left than anyone on the team other than Matheson. They arent going to keep him in a 4th line shutdown role are they? Its fine if that what he ends up being best at but Id like to see him used more like Hags. See if he can be the 3rd wheel that he was to help those lines succeed. Could even the top 6 if we had to. As long as the other wingers are Zucker and Guentzel on those 2 lines.

Like you said, no reason not to try different things out during the season just in case.

If I was in charge Id keep the top 6 stacked for most of the season again , so whoever we play in the postseason plan against us the same way the Isles and Habs did. Then Id completely switch it up and make the 3rd line into HBK 2.0. Forcing that team(s) to use 3 Dpairs more than the luxury we gave them instead of mainly using their top 4 to contain our offense. Habs only playing their 6th dman around 10-12 mins per game. Because our bottom 6 wasnt a threat.

When they were....Preds were forced to use their bottom pair when you know they cringed doing so. And that was the difference in that series. Most of our goals came when they were on the ice.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

We're gonna listen to a bloke that is best friends with Jack Johnson?


f***ing muppets.

 

[Flying Dego]

We're gonna listen to a bloke that is best friends with Jack Johnson?


f***ing muppets.

Sid's could of chose anyone else to be his best friend from St. Mary's...coulda just stuck with Jim who's now a janitor for a school in Manitoba that's caught up with owing a bookie more than he can afford or Gary an accountant for a middling firm dealing with a recent divorce. Anyone else that wouldn't have cost fans years of suffering.

 

[RSPens]

I am wondering if the team might benefit from limiting Crosby and Malkin's ice time a little. I know that sounds strange, but if the team can balance out the first, second and third lines a bit and get good production from the third line, it could help Sid and Geno when the playoffs roll around. I get that coaches like to put all the best players together to try to maximize production from the top lines, but if you get an overall production from 3 balanced lines as you do from 2 stacked lines and a useless 3rd line, isn't it better to have 3 balanced lines? Now I know JR didn't trade a 1st away for Kappenen to play on the 3rd line and last season Rust earned top 6 time and no one wants a $5M Zucker on the 3rd and Sully wants Tanev stapled to Blueger but you have to think that there are 3 really good lines in the mix somewhere. In a condensed season it might be worthwhile to not ride your mid 30 y/o's so much. We know that Sid will put up good numbers with a pylon and when Geno is Fire he can too. I say if McCann is the expected 3rd line C, give him a playmaker and a possession specialist and watch them tear 3rd pair D apart.

I do think that in the first few games that Sully should literally try almost any line combos just to see what might work and go from there. I think it is very premature to put Kappy with Jake and Sid in ink.

 

[Flying Dego]

I am wondering if the team might benefit from limiting Crosby and Malkin's ice time a little. I know that sounds strange, but if the team can balance out the first, second and third lines a bit and get good production from the third line, it could help Sid and Geno when the playoffs roll around. I get that coaches like to put all the best players together to try to maximize production from the top lines, but if you get an overall production from 3 balanced lines as you do from 2 stacked lines and a useless 3rd line, isn't it better to have 3 balanced lines? Now I know JR didn't trade a 1st away for Kappenen to play on the 3rd line and last season Rust earned top 6 time and no one wants a $5M Zucker on the 3rd and Sully wants Tanev stapled to Blueger but you have to think that there are 3 really good lines in the mix somewhere. In a condensed season it might be worthwhile to not ride your mid 30 y/o's so much. We know that Sid will put up good numbers with a pylon and when Geno is Fire he can too. I say if McCann is the expected 3rd line C, give him a playmaker and a possession specialist and watch them tear 3rd pair D apart.

I do think that in the first few games that Sully should literally try almost any line combos just to see what might work and go from there. I think it is very premature to put Kappy with Jake and Sid in ink.

As a counter point to spreading the talent and limiting our stars ice time...as we've seen tried in the past asking Sid and Geno to carry lesser players is not the way to go. They would have to work harder to pickup the slack even if you shorten their ice time.

Why not give them the resources to help carry their lines? We can create a sufficient third line without clipping the stars wings. With age they need insulated more so.

No more of this Sheary and Simon flanking Sid...or Fedotenko/Talbot flanking Malkin. They've served their sentences...set them free.

 

[RSPens]

As a counter point to spreading the talent and limiting our stars ice time...as we've seen tried in the past asking Sid and Geno to carry lesser players is not the way to go. They would have to work harder to pickup the slack even if you shorten their ice time.

Why not give them the resources to help carry their lines? We can create a sufficient third line without clipping the stars wings. With age they need insulated more so.

No more of this Sheary and Simon flanking Sid...or Fedotenko/Talbot flanking Malkin. They've served their sentences...set them free.

I can understand your side, but if we are ranking lines on a scale of 1-10 is it better to have First line 10, Second line 10, Third line 5, fourth line 5 or is it better to have 1st line 9, 2nd line 9 3rd line 8 and 4th line 4?

 

[Flying Dego]

I can understand your side, but if we are ranking lines on a scale of 1-10 is it better to have First line 10, Second line 10, Third line 5, fourth line 5 or is it better to have 1st line 9, 2nd line 9 3rd line 8 and 4th line 4?

I'm confused by how spreading our talent leaves us two '9' lines and one '8' line. We don't have that much great depth...let me try:

10 being the Geno line that was unreal
5 being an adequate 3rd line

Jake-Geno-Rust = 9.5
Zuck-Sid-Kap = 9 (Kap is the wildcard)
McCann-Teddy-Tanev = 6
Laff-Jank-Rod = 3.5-4 (this is a toss up)

Now if you split up the talent from our top lines how does the top 6 stay elite as you think? You seem to overvalued our talent. If we had it as good as you predict we'd be a dominant favorite for the cup...not a fringe contender.

 

[RSPens]

I'm confused by how spreading our talent leaves us two '9' lines and one '8' line. We don't have that much great depth...let me try:

10 being the Geno line that was unreal
5 being an adequate 3rd line

Jake-Geno-Rust = 9.5
Zuck-Sid-Kap = 9 (Kap is the wildcard)
McCann-Teddy-Tanev = 6
Laff-Jank-Rod = 3.5-4 (this is a toss up)

Now if you split up the talent from our top lines how does the top 6 stay elite as you think? You seem to overvalued our talent. If we had it as good as you predict we'd be a dominant favorite for the cup...not a fringe contender.

Hey...I was pulling numbers out of my ass alright . I just think that yes Sid and Geno are older but Sid has shown that he can be a top line in the league with 3rd and 4th line players. Geno can do it as well. So by giving them lesser but complimentary players, they can still be top lines in the league, but now you have extra talent on the 3rd and 4th line. It might not work, but it should at least be worth a shot. Tanev could very well be the next Dupuis. Erod may not excite a lot of people, but he has enough skill that he could be a good complimentary player, same with Lafferty. Poulin might not be ready, but if you ease him in it could free up another top 6 player for the bottom 6. Not to mention that we really don't know how Janks is going to fit in, he could surprise and be the perfect compliment to Geno (not likely, but who knows), or he could disappoint and be 4th line fodder. So yeah, they might not be 9's or 10's, but it is possible to get 3 ~8's and a decent 4th. I know that it is a little risky betting that Sid and Geno can still carry top lines, primarily on their own. But I think it should at least be considered. My biggest issue is that we know that McCann can't carry a 3rd line all on his own and will need some better talent to work with, yet Sully doesn't sound like he is going to give it to him. Regardless I would like to at least see a game where McCann has one of Zucker, Kappy or Rust just to see what they can do. We know that McCann has a great shot, but he needs someone that can help get the puck and help get him the puck and I just don't see that coming from the players that are currently penciled in with him. Of course I could be proven wrong and I actually hope that I am.