HFNHL FREE AGENCY: Results Round 1

Brent Burns Beard

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Both Hordichuk and Seidenberg are under contract with Anaheim. Neither is listed in the final free agency Excel file.

sorry about that, i cant remember where i got the info thinking i could sign Hordichuk.

stupid RFA offer said:
Kyle Wellwood 1,505m x 4 years TB

are you kidding me?

of course i match, thanks for nothing though.
 

Brent Burns Beard

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:laugh: This, ultimately, might be why we don't see more offer sheets in the NHL: the franternity of GMs would get too pissed off! :lol:

from my point of view:

1) clearly i am not napping, this cant possibly be considered a viable strategy in the offer.

2) i was already commited to paying him 1m from his QO, what kind of moron GM wouldnt easily pay him 1.5 to match?

3) i just traded a 2nd round pick to get him, why on earth considering point #2 would the GM even think I would accept a 3rd as compensation?

at the end of the day, its a who cares as no harm, no foul. i just dont understand the gamesmanship that was in play here.

if you want to sign an RFA, at least be legit. there was zero strategic effort put into this offer.

i guess thats my point?
 

TorontoGM

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Nov 10, 2005
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Toronto matches offer on Dave Steckel and Marek Schwarz.

Just to clarify, it was my understanding that Carolina made quite a few rfa offers, what happened?
 

PasiK

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Jun 11, 2007
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Yes, I will proceed tomorrow with the Lotteries and the announcements of the 2nd round of results. Tonight I will hopefully announce the procedure of the lottery drawing...

M

:help:

so we can already sent in 2nd round offers? I am still waiting instruction to who i will sent those

Also I want to see corrected prospect FA list and updated FA results after all corrections
 

Tampa GM

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sorry about that, i cant remember where i got the info thinking i could sign Hordichuk.



are you kidding me?

of course i match, thanks for nothing though.

I have been part of this league since the start back in 1998 and I have never seen this kind of attitude against other GMs in the league. I see NO REASON to call my bids "stupid RFA offer". Of course you are allowed to have different opinions but I made the deals that I thought would be best for my team. Would you appreciate if I call every single move you make this coming season for stupid?

The RFA offers that both me an Carolina made is within the rules of the league and I cant see why you get so upset. Is there anything else we are not suppose to do? Maybe we should ask you next time.

Atleast I didnt sign players who already where under a contract....
 

Ohio Jones

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from my point of view:

1) clearly i am not napping, this cant possibly be considered a viable strategy in the offer.

2) i was already commited to paying him 1m from his QO, what kind of moron GM wouldnt easily pay him 1.5 to match?

3) i just traded a 2nd round pick to get him, why on earth considering point #2 would the GM even think I would accept a 3rd as compensation?

at the end of the day, its a who cares as no harm, no foul. i just dont understand the gamesmanship that was in play here.

if you want to sign an RFA, at least be legit. there was zero strategic effort put into this offer.

i guess thats my point?


1) Offer sheets don't have to be about gamesmanship -- sometimes they're just straightforward offers to free agents. Off the top of my head, I suspect that is true in most of these cases. So in that sense, you're right -- there may not have been a lot of strategic thought put into the offers, but that doesn't make the offers pointless.

2) You had some key players come up for free agency -- without an updated roster it's kind of hard for any GM to know where each team stands in relation to the cap, so while Wellwood at $1.0 million fit into your cap plans, Wellwood at $1.5 million might not - assuming you'd prioritize keeping Stastny over keeping Welly.

3) So while I agree you're likely to match (as are most GMs each year), you never know -- it's entirely possible that you may have to bite the bullet and accept a third-rounder for a guy you just acquired for a second, if that's what your team needs to do to stay under the cap.


Ultimately though, by matching, your team now has $500k less cap room. That's a good thing for Tampa and every other team in the league. I've known GMs in some leagues to offer "pusher" bids just the chew up the opposition's cap room (kind of like at an auction where they have a couple of plants in the crowd to to get the action going and drive up the price on some items). They aren't purely pusher bids, of course, in that the teams want the players involved and would be prepared to give the necessary compensation, but they don't seriously expect the team not to match - they just want to cut down the team's options down the road. It's a double-edged sword, in that it puts upward pressure on salaries across the league, especially for players coming off their ELC (I think that was Burke's objection to the Penner Offer Sheet), so in the NHL that might be a little short-sighted. But in the HFNHL, where we index our salaries to the NHL, it's fair game.

Had the RFA sheet come in at a price that was *less* than you were expecting to pay (and I've seen it happen), then you might actually have been happy. The other possibility is that *no* offer sheet comes forward, in which case you would have had leverage with the agent to posibly negotiate Wellwood's salary *down* (although not below his QO).

Basically, any time you have a player go to RFA, you have to be prepared for the possibility that they'll recive and offer sheet -- and judging by the compensation thresholds, you could probably guess where the offer sheet might come in at - and can probably decide in advance what you would and wouldn't be prepared to match.


As far as the "stupid" comment... A little smack-talk in the league is fun - as long as it's good-natured. It may not have been clear whether your comments were especially good-natured...
 

Brent Burns Beard

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You had some key players come up for free agency ...Wellwood at $1.5 million might not - assuming you'd prioritize keeping Stastny over keeping Welly....

i didnt have any players come up for free agency other than the depth guys that i had no intention of signing at their apparent market value (nolan 5m?, mottau 1.75m?)

stastny is not my property either.

As far as the "stupid" comment... A little smack-talk in the league is fun - as long as it's good-natured. It may not have been clear whether your comments were especially good-natured...

... I see NO REASON to call my bids "stupid RFA offer".

Would you appreciate if I call every single move you make this coming season for stupid?....

i am not calling you stupid, the strategy invoked was.

it didnt work, it had no chance of working and it wasnt even structured to work, so in my book that makes it stupid.

... The RFA offers that both me an Carolina made is within the rules of the league and I cant see why you get so upset. Is there anything else we are not suppose to do? Maybe we should ask you next time.?....

of course its allowed, doesnt mean the strategy had logic behind it. if you want a RFA, it makes sense to offer beyond market value if you have any chance of it not being matched. has any RFA signed at near market value ever changed hands?

hey whatever, next year maybe i will just leave all my key guys as RFA so that I get cheap contracts offered to them. reminds me of another stupid RFA offer to Brad Richard for 2.8m (4).
 

SPG

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i didnt have any players come up for free agency other than the depth guys that i had no intention of signing at their apparent market value (nolan 5m?, mottau 1.75m?)

stastny is not my property either.





i am not calling you stupid, the strategy invoked was.

it didnt work, it had no chance of working and it wasnt even structured to work, so in my book that makes it stupid.



of course its allowed, doesnt mean the strategy had logic behind it. if you want a RFA, it makes sense to offer beyond market value if you have any chance of it not being matched. has any RFA signed at near market value ever changed hands?

hey whatever, next year maybe i will just leave all my key guys as RFA so that I get cheap contracts offered to them. reminds me of another stupid RFA offer to Brad Richard for 2.8m (4).


You know, usually I stay quiet when people throw these little tantrums, but give me a freakin break. The Mottau contract is obviously an overpayment, but I let Chris Drury, Henrik Tallinder, AND Robert Lang hit the market and he's the only regular player FA I've signed. Worst case scenario, I buy out Mottau down the road... one successfully met endorsement would pay for a buyout of that deal.

I guess this is the annual "listen to the incessant whining from Pittsburgh" part of the offseason. Let me break out my little violin and play a sad song for you.

:nopity::nopity::nopity::cry::cry::cry:
 

SPG

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I have been part of this league since the start back in 1998 and I have never seen this kind of attitude against other GMs in the league. I see NO REASON to call my bids "stupid RFA offer". Of course you are allowed to have different opinions but I made the deals that I thought would be best for my team. Would you appreciate if I call every single move you make this coming season for stupid?

The RFA offers that both me an Carolina made is within the rules of the league and I cant see why you get so upset. Is there anything else we are not suppose to do? Maybe we should ask you next time.

Atleast I didnt sign players who already where under a contract....

True. At least you did your research on who was actually a free agent...not that it takes much...just looking at a list.
 

Hossa

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of course its allowed, doesnt mean the strategy had logic behind it. if you want a RFA, it makes sense to offer beyond market value if you have any chance of it not being matched. has any RFA signed at near market value ever changed hands?

hey whatever, next year maybe i will just leave all my key guys as RFA so that I get cheap contracts offered to them. reminds me of another stupid RFA offer to Brad Richard for 2.8m (4).

I've said it before, but I signed Tomas Kaberle as an RFA and after compensation was negotiated he came to my team. Now that's a bit more than his NHL deal, but that's also one of the NHL's best contracts, and it was before the days of auto-signing in our league. I used the RFA option in our "CBA" to acquire a top pairing d-man and core player. Others have done it too.

I think the point Doug is making is that RFA offer sheets are an option our "CBA" allows us, and they can come about for different reasons. The stigma that it's "poaching" on players still holds, and I understand that, but I don't see why it gets so personal. Every team in this league makes transactions that other GMs could criticize, if we all worked off the same strategic plan it would just be a game of chance. I doubt you and I would have assessed Kyle Wellwood's trade value in the same way, for example, but that's your decision and so long as no rules are broken or manipulation utilized, what business is it of mine to criticize the strategic decisions of other teams.

At a certain point any GM has the option not to let their players hit the market, and they can avoid it by re-signing their guys early. Offer sheets shouldn't be signed at less than what the original team has offered anyways, so realistically if the offers sheets are (in the original team's mind) at or below market value, it would seem to me any complaints about that offer sheet should be directed not at the team presenting it, but the original team and the agent.

I guess I just don't see what grounds one has to criticize teams presenting offer sheets. If you don't want your players subject to offer sheets of any kind, get them done beforehand. It's on you (not just you personally, but the rights-holding team in general) for letting them be subject to the offer sheets, and if you don't trust or aren't likely to agree with the strategic decisions of other GMs, don't allow your RFAs to have their contract status influenced by that.
 
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The old geezer

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... next year maybe i will just leave all my key guys as RFA so that I get cheap contracts offered to them.

The odd thing about this converstaion (not Wellwood in particular) is that indirectly this sort of thinking is the part that always makes me nervous when I see low offers ... I wonder if 'friends' are helping one another out to get a better deal than they could with the Swingstein's. Years ago we had this happen and ever since I look for suspiciosly at low offers wondering if it's happening again. Obviously that's not the case here ;)
 

Dryden

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Feb 27, 2002
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me thinks he thinks that the offers are not enough and that you have to offer some ridiculous salaries for a GM to consider taking the compensation. and in this league that compensation will take ages to come back as something. so both sides lose. so those that offer little increases get mocked by him.

I see his point. don't like his methods though.
 

Wildman

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Feb 28, 2002
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The odd thing about this converstaion (not Wellwood in particular) is that indirectly this sort of thinking is the part that always makes me nervous when I see low offers ... I wonder if 'friends' are helping one another out to get a better deal than they could with the Swingstein's. Years ago we had this happen and ever since I look for suspiciosly at low offers wondering if it's happening again. Obviously that's not the case here ;)


I see your point here Drew...but the agent are responsible to reject an offer if it is below market value. We did that last season with S. Weiss where he was transfeered over to prospect list until a fair offer was presented to him by Carolina.
 

Dr.Sens(e)

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After a quick huddle by the Swingstein agency and as a quick update on the RFA offer sheets, please note that Brent Seabrooke has not signed that offer sheet. He may at some point consider signing it, but given it is below his NHL salary, it is not a contract he is willing to sign at this juncture. The same can be said for the best offer made thus far to Colby Armstrong - he will not sign that deal given it is less than his NHL deal.

As such, any team is free to continue bidding on either Seabrooke or Armstrong in round 2.

If there are other RFA offer sheets that were clearly below market value (NHL value), please let us know. Thanks to those who have pointed this out to us along the way.

While we appreciate this update might be frustrating for a few involved, in the interests of getting the updates out to everyone quickly it was difficult to double check every RFA offer against the players NHL salary given there were so many offers. As such, some of this is happening after the fact as we sort through the first round.
 

Dr.Sens(e)

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i am not calling you stupid, the strategy invoked was.

it didnt work, it had no chance of working and it wasnt even structured to work, so in my book that makes it stupid.

of course its allowed, doesnt mean the strategy had logic behind it. if you want a RFA, it makes sense to offer beyond market value if you have any chance of it not being matched. has any RFA signed at near market value ever changed hands?

hey whatever, next year maybe i will just leave all my key guys as RFA so that I get cheap contracts offered to them. reminds me of another stupid RFA offer to Brad Richard for 2.8m (4).

Obviously you haven't been following our free agency history - RFA signings of lower level players has worked many times, albeit the minority of the time. With nothing to lose, why not take a shot? It may make you a target for other offers, but perhaps that isn't a concern.

Or perhaps those offering were assuming you would pay as much attention to your RFA's as you do to submitting lines? ;)

As to leaving RFA's for next, I'm not sure you really want to do this. Our league has already seen many teams lose key players to RFA offer sheets for huge contracts the team couldn't or wouldn't match (Kaberle, Kovalchuk, Luongo etc.)

Overall though, I have to say your hostility is a little strange. It's a fantasy league man, lighten up.
 

Default101

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Phoenix matches offers for Hale and Woywitka

Phoenix is holding out on a decision for O'Byrne.
 

Brent Burns Beard

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I was going to respond post by post, but frankly just wanted to wish everyone a great summer and good health.

R
 

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