Prospect Info: HFCBJ 2023 Summer Prospect Rankings: #6

[Viqsi]

HFCBJ's annual prospect polls continue. A quick reminder as to how this goes:
Vote for the best prospect from the above poll (listed alphabetically) and post who you think should be added from the full (remaining) list below. Criteria is that they are under 25 and haven't spent the majority of a season in the NHL. (This criteria may not match any particular service's/outlet's, or anyone's here who makes a list. Be that as it may...)

There are no set guidelines to determine how you vote. Peak potential, likelihood of NHL career, pathway to playing time, expectations based on draft status -- any/all of these can be used at your discretion. There is no right/wrong way to vote.

1) Adam Fantilli (C)
2) David Jiricek (RD)
3) Denton Mateychuk (LD)
4) Dmitri Voronkov (C)
5) Stanislav Svozil (LD)

Added: James Malatesta (LW)

Select your add from the list below:

Tyler Angle (C)
Ole Julian Bjørgvik Holm (LD)
Ben Boyd (C)
Cameron Butler (RW)
Jacob Christiansen (LD/RD)
Luca Del Bel Belluz (C)
Kirill Dolzhenkov (RW)
Joshua Dunne (C)
James Fisher (RW/MOD)
Trey Fix-Wolansky (RW)
Jet Greaves (G)
Aidan Hreschuk (LD)
Sergei Ivanov (G)
Oiva Keskinen (C)
Samuel Knazko (LD)
Nolan Lalonde (G)
Nikolai Makarov (LD)
Hunter McKown (C)
Tyler Peddle (LW/C)
Mikael Pyyhtia (LW/C)
Luca Pinelli (C)
Guillaume Richard (LD)
Martin Rysavy (RW)
Melvin Strahl (G)
Andrew Strathmann (LD)
Robbie Stucker (RD)
William Whitelaw (RW)


Add votes as of NotTooWide:
McKown - 12
Del Bel Belluz - 12
Pyythia - 2
Fisher - 1
Ivanov - 2

Click to read more...

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Add Fisher

 

[Doggy]

Add Ivanov

 

[NotWendell]

It took til prospect #6 for this to get interesting. Add Luca Del Bel Belluz or Luca Pinelli. I don't care, pick a Luca (he lives on the second floor).

 

[stevo61]

I might actually start voting for Whitelaw in the adds right away. Ive been trying to learn more about his actual game and the skill is there. One scout said something to the effect of if the draft rankings were based on skill alone hes a 1st rounder. He sounds like he has 0 interest in defense whatsoever so it creates major boom or bust potential. I was just listening to a random podcast and they said something like Whitelaw is the guy who puts the puck through your legs, walks your D partner and is shit talking the whole time. Then going bardown and slashing the goalie on the way by. Not only do I like that description, I like that jerk attitude. Thats the better confidence/cockiness attitude vs the potential locker room stuff

 

[CBJWerenski8]

It took til prospect #6 for this to get interesting. Add Luca Del Bel Belluz or Luca Pinelli. I don't care, pick a Luca (he lives on the second floor).

Since you put LDBB first, I am going to count that as your vote. Let me know if thats not the case

I might actually start voting for Whitelaw in the adds right away. Ive been trying to learn more about his actual game and the skill is there. One scout said something to the effect of if the draft rankings were based on skill alone hes a 1st rounder. He sounds like he has 0 interest in defense whatsoever so it creates major boom or bust potential. I was just listening to a random podcast and they said something like Whitelaw is the guy who puts the puck through your legs, walks your D partner and is shit talking the whole time. Then going bardown and slashing the goalie on the way by. Not only do I like that description, I like that jerk attitude. Thats the better confidence/cockiness attitude vs the potential locker room stuff

Are you swapping your McKown pick to Whitelaw? For now, I'm keeping you at McKown until you say otherwise

 

[stevo61]

Since you put LDBB first, I am going to count that as your vote. Let me know if thats not the case


Are you swapping your McKown pick to Whitelaw? For now, I'm keeping you at McKown until you say otherwise

nah keep McKown. Just potentially a conversation starter if others have more insight or an opinion

 

[CBJWerenski8]

nah keep McKown. Just potentially a conversation starter if others have more insight or an opinion

Gotcha, I'll bite.

I do like his offensive upside and I do like taking chances on "problem" characters with a lot of talent. However, I do not like that he has no interest on the defensive side of the puck. I do not like the cockiness issues, but if you can back your shit up, then I can live with it. Hopefully thats just a maturity thing and he grows out of it. The stuff you describe about shit talking and taking swipes at guys I can live with, if you're a good player. If Brad Marchand wasn't a good player he would get his shit kicked in every night. If Whitelaw doesn't produce but is a rat, he's going to be in for a rough ride.

On my list I really value "likelihood" of reaching the NHL and your potential. I have him lower on my list (14) because I don't think he will be an NHL player if he does not make steady improvements in his play away from the puck. I am very interested in him though, as I am with Dolzchenkov. Two guys who I anticipate will either steadily climb or hard fall off my list in the next 2 years.

 

[stevo61]

Gotcha, I'll bite.

I do like his offensive upside and I do like taking chances on "problem" characters with a lot of talent. However, I do not like that he has no interest on the defensive side of the puck. I do not like the cockiness issues, but if you can back your shit up, then I can live with it. Hopefully thats just a maturity thing and he grows out of it. The stuff you describe about shit talking and taking swipes at guys I can live with, if you're a good player. If Brad Marchand wasn't a good player he would get his shit kicked in every night. If Whitelaw doesn't produce but is a rat, he's going to be in for a rough ride.

On my list I really value "likelihood" of reaching the NHL and your potential. I have him lower on my list (14) because I don't think he will be an NHL player if he does not make steady improvements in his play away from the puck. I am very interested in him though, as I am with Dolzchenkov. Two guys who I anticipate will either steadily climb or hard fall off my list in the next 2 years.

There are a lot of what ifs but the NHL having villians is not bad. So long as he isnt doing greasy stuff or actively hurting his team. He seems to have high PIMs but I dont know how they break down into minors, misconducts etc. Seems like he could be a Ho-Sang or a Hoffman

 

[tunnelvision]

I recently watched 4 or 5 USHL game VODs of Youngstown and it didn't leave me an impression that there's a lot of NHL upside with Whitelaw (to be fair they were a little older tapes from the season so I don't know how much he has progressed towards the end). He's got some scoring and dangling skills but I'm not convinced there are enough of speed, playmaking skills and defensive qualities to become an NHL regular as a small winger one day. I think that at 5'9 you would need to be a quicker processor like Brindley to have a decent chance.

In fact I was more impressed with Strathmann who was confident and highly active on both sides of the puck making aggressive reads from the blueline, sometimes leading to scoring chances against but I thought his overall impact was mainly positive. Not a game breaking talent in terms of skating, puck handling or shooting but all offensive tools are at least decent level in my eyes. He can pass the puck reliably, do a flashy stutter step to move away from the forecheck and create some offense out of all space he sees in front of him. As a 5'11 LD his chances of making an NHL roster doesn't seem great as of now but it will be interesting to follow how far he can get especially if he gains strength and the skating improves.

Add Ivanov

 

[NotTooWideArena]

Dumais, add Luca DBB

 

[DarkandStormy]

The Malatesta add is interesting. He did have a great season, but I generally don't put a ton of stock into age out seasons in the Q. Plus, the list of guys who are 5'9'' or shorter who have had successful careers is pretty small (pun intended), especially in the history of the CBJ (Atkinson, Gaudreau, and...?). Seems like a guy destined for several years in the AHL, but obviously plenty of people here like him more than I do.

 

[koteka]

I have the small guys as

Brindley
—————— big gap
Malatesta
——————
Dumais
Whitelaw

Malatesta has a build that gives him a shot at the 4th line. I think we should trade Dumais while his value is high.

A major concern with Whitelaw is we don’t have the kind of team that can use a small pest. We are adding guys to be a smaller, puck moving, skilled team. You need some big dudes who like to hit hard if you have a small guy like Marchand trying to get under the skin of the other team.

 

[tunnelvision]

I think we should trade Dumais while his value is high.

What do you think his current value is in the eyes of NHL GMs? 2nd round pick?

A major concern with Whitelaw is we don’t have the kind of team that can use a small pest. We are adding guys to be a smaller, puck moving, skilled team. You need some big dudes who like to hit hard if you have a small guy like Marchand trying to get under the skin of the other team.

Let's not act like we know for sure as to what kind of team and FO the Jackets will have in 3 or 5 years when he's most likely starting to really compete for an NHL roster spot. Also don't forget that Voronkov is finally arriving here and that this year they signed 20 year old 6'4 Butler to an ELC. 2nd in PIM in the OHL last year and very similar stat line as Josh Anderson's final junior season.

I don't think there's much that we can infer from recent draft history to make confident predictions of future rosters.

 

[koteka]

What do you think his current value is in the eyes of NHL GMs? 2nd round pick?


Let's not act like we know for sure as to what kind of team and FO the Jackets will have in 3 or 5 years when he's most likely starting to really compete for an NHL roster spot. Also don't forget that Voronkov is finally arriving here and that this year they signed 20 year old 6'4 Butler to an ELC. 2nd in PIM in the OHL last year and very similar stat line as Josh Anderson's final junior season.

I don't think there's much that we can infer from recent draft history to make confident predictions of future rosters.

I think he is worth a mid 2nd. Maybe more valuable to Montreal so an earlier 2nd from them.

I get that we might have another front office by then. But given the style that Jarmo seems to want to play, picking a small jerk that annoys the other team is a curious pick to me.

GDT: - 2023 NHL Draft is my analysis of recent draft history. There is a definite swing towards smaller players.

 

[tunnelvision]

GDT: - 2023 NHL Draft is my analysis of recent draft history. There is a definite swing towards smaller players.

I don't think it's plausible that, for example, at some point in the past few years FO/Siren would have decided to sit down with his staff and talk about their drafting philosophy for the sole purpose of changing it to prefer smaller players. I believe that amateur scouts have their independent views on players, they're not guided to direct their attention in a certain way to see things ("small players good, big players bad") that they collectively as an organisation or a scouting team value the most in players.

However I can't ignore the fact there's been some personnel changes. Timmins was the assistant director of amateur scouting last year. We can all go look up Habs drafting history while he was there and compare it to 2023 CBJ picks. I don't know if that data is going to tell me anything or support your narrative though. FYI; Milan Tichy, who moved on from CBJ after 2022 draft, was allegedly a key figure behind Wennberg, Texier, Svozil and Jiricek picks (and other Euro selections of the past).

 

[koteka]

I don't think it's plausible that, for example, at some point in the past few years FO/Siren would have decided to sit down with his staff and talk about their drafting philosophy for the sole purpose of changing it to prefer smaller players. I believe that amateur scouts have their independent views on players, they're not guided to direct their attention in a certain way to see things ("small players good, big players bad") that they collectively as an organisation or a scouting team value the most in players.

However I can't ignore the fact there's been some personnel changes. Timmins was the assistant director of amateur scouting last year. We can all go look up Habs drafting history while he was there and compare it to 2023 CBJ picks. I don't know if that data is going to tell me anything or support your narrative though. FYI; Milan Tichy, who moved on from CBJ after 2022 draft, was allegedly a key figure behind Wennberg, Texier, Svozil and Jiricek picks (and other Euro selections of the past).

I don’t know what happened. Maybe Tex and Hoffman have them a little gun shy when it comes to Europeans. I don’t know that they sat down and decided to draft short North Americans, but they should sit down and discuss which players seem to be generally undervalued in the team’s perspective or which players does the scouting staff think it evaluates well. Maybe the team had a high grade on Caufield and a few other smaller guys that they didn’t get to draft, and those guys have performed well. So it could be the team is trying not to miss out on guy like Brindley or Dumais.

 

[majormajor]

I don't think it's plausible that, for example, at some point in the past few years FO/Siren would have decided to sit down with his staff and talk about their drafting philosophy for the sole purpose of changing it to prefer smaller players. I believe that amateur scouts have their independent views on players, they're not guided to direct their attention in a certain way to see things ("small players good, big players bad") that they collectively as an organisation or a scouting team value the most in players.

However I can't ignore the fact there's been some personnel changes. Timmins was the assistant director of amateur scouting last year. We can all go look up Habs drafting history while he was there and compare it to 2023 CBJ picks. I don't know if that data is going to tell me anything or support your narrative though. FYI; Milan Tichy, who moved on from CBJ after 2022 draft, was allegedly a key figure behind Wennberg, Texier, Svozil and Jiricek picks (and other Euro selections of the past).

I don’t know what happened. Maybe Tex and Hoffman have them a little gun shy when it comes to Europeans. I don’t know that they sat down and decided to draft short North Americans, but they should sit down and discuss which players seem to be generally undervalued in the team’s perspective or which players does the scouting staff think it evaluates well. Maybe the team had a high grade on Caufield and a few other smaller guys that they didn’t get to draft, and those guys have performed well. So it could be the team is trying not to miss out on guy like Brindley or Dumais.

What I see is a turn towards collecting prospects with high NHLe, the goal isn't to get small players, it is to put less weight on skating, size, intangibles, etc... and more weight on production. Dolzhenkov for example is a big Russian with skating issues, but he had a high NHLe. All the small guys from 2022 and 2023 score high on production.

The more obvious thing to point to is that Cam Lawrence and Josh Weissbock have been consulting with the CBJ for the last couple years (maybe 2021 too?) and helping with the draft, they developed their own NHLe model. Timmins just started here and I don't see any big change with him involved.

 

[koteka]

The more obvious thing to point to is that Cam Lawrence and Josh Weissbock have been consulting with the CBJ for the last couple years (maybe 2021 too?) and helping with the draft, they developed their own NHLe model.

That makes sense. (From a what is going on perspective. We’ll see how it does from a drafting talent perspective.)

 

[majormajor]

That makes sense. (From a what is going on perspective. We’ll see how it does from a drafting talent perspective.)

The good thing is you win all this "best drafting team" acclamation from the stat watchers on twitter.

We'll see how it actually turns out.