HFBoards Top 20 NHL Prospects: #17

[Isaac Nootin]

Liljegren.

Funny how he's the only name mentioned by posters as having no business being listed but Brannstrom and Yamamoto are just fine. He had a better season than both. Others as well.

Toronto must be on HFs mind 24/7.

 

[StatisticsAddict99]

Liljegren.

Funny how he's the only name mentioned by posters as having no business being listed but Brannstrom and Yamamoto are just fine. He had a better season than both. Others as well.

Toronto must be on HFs mind 24/7.

Brannstrom had 2 more points at the WJC U20 and 5 more Points in the International Jr(U20) while playing the same amount of games(44) as Liljegren but in the SHL and falling 2 Points short in a harder league to score in. Your extremely wrong there, this narrative Brannstrom had a worse year and is inferior to Liljegren is completely wrong.

Yamamoto had raised his PPG in the WHL and played NHL minutes to add on that. Not the best year but Liljegren didn’t blow him out of the water or anything.

 

[Isaac Nootin]

Brannstrom had 2 more points at the WJC U20 and 5 more Points in the International Jr(U20) while playing the same amount of games(44) as Liljegren but in the SHL and falling 2 Points short in a harder league to score in. Your extremely wrong there, this narrative Brannstrom had a worse year and is inferior to Liljegren is completely wrong.

Yamamoto had raised his PPG in the WHL and played NHL minutes to add on that. Not the best year but Liljegren didn’t blow him out of the water or anything.

Liljegren also had to make the transition of moving to a new country while adjusting to the smaller ice surface. He just put up a historic AHL season for his age group, because it's almost never done for the reasons listed above and many others.

I take it you have an issue with him being listed?

 

[4thline]

Chytil was involved in 15% of the Wolfpack’s goals, whereas Liljegren was involved in 7% of the Marlies’, and the latter team had 46 more goals for and 82 fewer goals against through the season. It isn’t honest to disregard the squads each player had supporting them, nor is it honest to draw focus to Chytil’s statistical drop-off without acknowledging the fact that it happened exactly when the already-mediocre Wolfpack lost their four best defenseman and starting goalie, compared to Liljegren producing with superior teammates on a championship-winning team.

I'm talking about falling of his torrid opening pace (9 points in his first 6 games in October). Is that when the 4 best dmen were called up?

If you can look past blindly defending your player you'd have noticed the words "and that neither of the previous comes near telling the full story of how impressive his season was."

Literally posted about how stat watching an 18 year old in the AHL doesn't tell the whole story, especially given how rare it is. Sometimes its a C dealing with a limited supporting cast. Sometimes a d man rounding focusing on rounding his defensive game while transitioning to smaller ice. Both were very impressive for 18 year olds in the AHL. One gets the season interpreted as favourably as possible, the other as negatively.

 

[StatisticsAddict99]

Liljegren also had to make the transition of moving to a new country while adjusting to the smaller ice surface. He just put up a historic AHL season for his age group, because it's almost never done for the reasons listed above and many others.

I take it you have an issue with him being listed?

Actually it’s not unusual for Europeans to go to the AHL and play much better there, your just making excuses. Also what exactly was historic, was it just the fact he’s a Leaf prospect and did relatively well?


I don’t have issue with him being listed, I have issue with him being homervoted through the roof up to 3rd in the poll.

 

[Isaac Nootin]

Actually it’s not unusual for Europeans to go to the AHL and play much better there, your just making excuses. Also what exactly was historic, was it just the fact he’s a Leaf prospect and did relatively well?

Show me the extensive list of 18 year old AHL defenceman. I'll wait.

 

[4thline]

Actually it’s not unusual for Europeans to go to the AHL and play much better there, your just making excuses. Also what exactly was historic, was it just the fact he’s a Leaf prospect and did relatively well?


I don’t have issue with him being listed, I have issue with him being homervoted through the roof up to 3rd in the poll.

Oh the irony. Doing it to your guy for 2nd is no different I suppose?

IMO after Wahlstrom Bouchard and Glass it's a free for all with all of Vesalainen/Liljegren/Chytil/Brannstrom/Boqvist/Tkachuk/Andersson/Suzuki holding merit.

The thing about Liljegren is that while he does technically now hold the highwater mark for Points/game among u19 defenders with more than 10 games played in the modern era, and that while he performed as well as many a U19 top pick did in their end of season call ups- it wasn't about the points. It was about the transition game, the physicality, the defense. The personal growth and going a huge way into absolutely dismantling the concerns about his IQ that allowed us to nab him at 17.

 

[doomscroll]

I'm talking about falling of his torrid opening pace (9 points in his first 6 games in October). Is that when the 4 best dmen were called up?

If you can look past blindly defending your player you'd have noticed the words "and that neither of the previous comes near telling the full story of how impressive his season was."

Literally posted about how stat watching an 18 year old in the AHL doesn't tell the whole story, especially given how rare it is. Sometimes its a C dealing with a limited supporting cast. Sometimes a d man rounding focusing on rounding his defensive game while transitioning to smaller ice. Both were very impressive for 18 year olds in the AHL. One gets the season interpreted as favourably as possible, the other as negatively.

1. Chytil began falling away from a p/gp pace after February 10, which was two days after the period of the aformentioned call-ups.

2. Liljegren and Chytil both came from professional leagues in Europe, so there is no distinction when it comes to the smaller ice.

3. I didn’t interpret Liljegren’s season in a negative way, I was originally responding to a point about statistical production in a poll about which among a group of prospects is the best. All I did was provide facts on the production of either player in relation to the teams they played on in a effort to shine a light on how they benefited or suffered from the state of those teams.

 

[StatisticsAddict99]

Comparing a player from the NCAA with a completely different style of play to Vas is a bad idea. I know you'd really like to get your boy in the top 20, but none of your arguments have been sound up until now.

It’s not really about my arguments or opinion, it’s abour who’s the best in the list and Vesalainens skill, talent and percormance has proven he is.

 

[Isaac Nootin]

Actually it’s not unusual for Europeans to go to the AHL and play much better there, your just making excuses. Also what exactly was historic, was it just the fact he’s a Leaf prospect and did relatively well?

Show me the extensive list of 18 year old AHL defenceman. I'll wait.

Still waiting for that list since it's "not unusual".

 

[doomscroll]

Still waiting for that list since it's "not unusual".

In the past ten years, only four 18-year-old defensemen have spent the majority of their season in the AHL: Slava Voynov, Hampus Lindholm, Oliver Kylington, and Tim Liljegren. Character notwithstanding, that’s not a shabby group of peers.

The only other 18-year-olds over the past decade who played more than a handful of games in the AHL were Filatov, Girgensons, Fiala, William and Alex Nylander, Pastrnak, Puljujuarvi, Kostin, and Chytil.

 

[Isaac Nootin]

In the past ten years, only four 18-year-old defensemen have spent the majority of their season in the AHL: Slava Voynov, Hampus Lindholm, Oliver Kylington, and Tim Liljegren. Character notwithstanding, that’s not a shabby group of peers.

Exactly, it's quite unusual. Unlike some poster would have you believe.

 

[Lays]

List is terrible..

 

[Leafs at Knight]

List is terrible..

Let me guess because Chytil or Andersson haven't been voted in yet?

 

[StatisticsAddict99]

Still waiting for that list since it's "not unusual".

In the past some amount of years...

Kylington
Voynov
Muller
Rielly
Morrissey
Lindholm
Uchevatov
Burroughs
Etc...

Just because he’s playing in the AHL at a rare age doesn’t mean he’s all-time great, it just means the Toronto organization and Liljegren themself wanted Liljegren to be seasoned in a North American League to get him used to hockey here.

 

[Lays]

Let me guess because Chytil or Andersson haven't been voted in yet?

Not even for that reason but Chytil really should be on this list already..Andersson should not be and not anytime too soon either.

 

[Voodoo Child]

Voted Liljegren, for the Loljegrens, and because I always like to see the haters whining.

But it's more likely Wahlstrom or Chytil.

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

Came down to Glass / Chytil / Tkachuk for me.

Went with my initial feeling & voted Glass.

 

[Critical13]

Chytil had 26 points in 29 AHL games before the Rangers imploded and called-up Pionk, DeAngelo, Sproul, Gilmour, and Georgiev. The Wolfpack was bad even before that point, but losing their entire top-four and starter gutted the team and gave Chytil basically no chance to succeed, with the team regularly facing 40+ shots against while being entirely without offensive support.

Absolutely 0 reason to turn what that poster said into a Liljegren vs Chytil conversation.

People will argue over anything on this board. IMO Chytil and Liljegren are both being underrated in these threads, they both were good AHL players at 18 and that's a damn fine accomplishment.

 

[Isaac Nootin]

In the past some amount of years...

Kylington
Voynov
Muller
Rielly
Morrissey
Lindholm
Uchevatov
Burroughs
Etc...

Just because he’s playing in the AHL at a rare age doesn’t mean he’s all-time great, it just means the Toronto organization and Liljegren themself wanted Liljegren to be seasoned in a North American League to get him used to hockey here.

What a terribly uninformed post.

 

[Leafs at Knight]

Not even for that reason but Chytil really should be on this list already..Andersson should not be and not anytime too soon either.

Both Chytil and Liljegren are underrated on this site. Chytil should be going now maybe even a couple spots ago, and Liljegren right after him.

 

[Castle8130]

Besides the goalies, the first 7 listed are the only ones that should be even considered for this position.

 

[Snippit]

Liljegren.

Funny how he's the only name mentioned by posters as having no business being listed but Brannstrom and Yamamoto are just fine. He had a better season than both. Others as well.

Toronto must be on HFs mind 24/7.

He certainly deserves to be an option, but looking through his 16 votes...they're almost exclusively Leafs fans (at least 12 of his 16 votes are from Leafs fans). That's taking homer voting to the next level. Is there seriously no critical thinking going on beyond "that's my guy!?"

I get that it's just a silly offseason poll but you'd hope that people would put at least a little bit of effort into being unbiased. This applies to everyone of course but it's most noticeable with the Liljegren votes. Yamamoto votes are also 100% Oiler based lol.

 

[Isaac Nootin]

He certainly deserves to be an option, but looking through his 16 votes...they're almost exclusively Leafs fans (at least 12 of his 16 votes are from Leafs fans). That's taking homer voting to the next level. Is there seriously no critical thinking going on beyond "that's my guy!?"

Being a fan of a team disqualifies you from voting for who you think is the best option?

 

[Snippit]

Being a fan of a team disqualifies you from voting for who you think is the best option?

No, but when a player is only getting votes from his fan base it's fair to say people aren't doing a whole lot of thinking.