HFBoards Top 20 NHL Prospects: #16

[Captain97]

Went dobson

 

[sanitysrequiem]

I'll say it again.. but isn't this Top 20 super weak compared to the last 5-6 years? At least since 2012 which was a pretty shitty draft. 2017 and 2018 don't seem so special to me.

 

[Lays]

Andersson isn't in the same league as these guys

Says the Devils fan..he’s above Valimaki/Brannstrom and I think he’s close to Glass

 

[NJ DevLolz]

Says the Devils fan..he’s above Valimaki/Brannstrom and I think he’s close to Glass

His upside isn't that high

 

[amnesiac]

add Kotkaniemi

 

[Lays]

His upside isn't that high

I think he can be a gritty 25-25/30 guy with intangibles+Near Selke level defense. Think Landeskog sorta

 

[FinlandPanther]

Referring to the last thread (#15).

Or maybe he deserves it.

 

[Critical13]

Kristian Vesalainen at eliteprospects.com

Elite Prospects - Liiga Stats All-time season

Please do research before you assume it’s a homer vote. Jets fans aren’t voting Vesalainen because he’s a Jets prospect, we are voting him because he’s one of the best 19 year old Goalscorers and overall players the FEL has ever seen.

He is quite promising, but I think it's very hard to justify him over almost anyone on that list. I don't see any real good argument for him being ahead of any other player listed in the poll

 

[Critical13]

To be fair, at least there is some level of diversity with the Vesalainen votes. Knowing the posters and checking their profiles I can tell you that at least 7/9 Liljegren votes are from Toronto fans.

So instead of just Jets fans, there are Jets fans and Finnish fans. Where have I seen this before...

 

[StatisticsAddict99]

He is quite promising, but I think it's very hard to justify him over almost anyone on that list. I don't see any real good argument for him being ahead of any other player listed in the poll

Okay I’ll do a list.

Wahlstrom: I think it’s pretty much even going forward but if you internationally Vesalainen has outscored Wahlstroms Numbers in all of the same development years(which is the best comparison), also the rarity of they’re success in each individual league is pretty much just as rare(though FEL is a much harder league), talent wise I think it’s even.

Chythil: Vesalainen has scored at a higher pace this past season in FEL than Chythil in the AHL and it is actually harder to score in FEL, not to mention Vesalainen has scored higher/more internationally.

Boqvist: I think he’s a big issue here, boom or bust, he’s really skilled and talented but hasn’t been able to play well and score agaisnt men, that’s risky. If Boqvist can overcome that that it’s more than likely him as hes got more talent than anyone left on the board.

Bouchard: Bouchard is great but he doesn’t have anything Vesalainen doesn’t and though he’s a excellent scoring(especially on the PP) Vesalainen is just as good but the issue with Bouchard is skating and defence(which is his primary objective for his position) where as Vesalainen doesn’t have those issues as he’s a big great skater who is pretty solid in his 2-way game.

Andersson: this year Vesalainen was better as he scored at a higher and rated rate in his league(compared to what’s Andersson did in multiple different leagues this year) and had a better season internationally.

Dobson: You know what, you got me I did not notice Dobson was still left on the board(I think he’s the best non-Dahlin Defensmen since Ekblad), should had been gone at or before 10 IMO(I’m gonna change my vote as soon as I’m done writing this)

Liljegren: This one is pretty easy. Vesalainen is quite a bit better for many reasons.

Brannstrom: He’s great but he is not on the talent or skill level that some others on this list are on(similar to Liljegrens situation).

*(Skipping goalies cause it’s near impossible to cross evaluate prospect players to prospect goalies)

Glass: Didn’t do much more at all this year and it looks as if Vesalainen took a jump ahead offensively as well.

Tkachuk: He’s very overrated(and is a overager in this years draft) but he could possibly be better but I don’t think he’d score as much or as high as Vesalainen did this year in FEL, it’s close but I think Vesalainen is still a little more proven here.

 

[Ainec]

Okay I’ll do a list.

Wahlstrom: I think it’s pretty much even going forward but if you internationally Vesalainen has outscored Wahlstroms Numbers in all of the same development years(which is the best comparison), also the rarity of they’re success in each individual league is pretty much just as rare(though FEL is a much harder league), talent wise I think it’s even.

Chythil: Vesalainen has scored at a higher pace this past season in FEL than Chythil in the AHL and it is actually harder to score in FEL, not to mention Vesalainen has scored higher/more internationally.

Boqvist: I think he’s a big issue here, boom or bust, he’s really skilled and talented but hasn’t been able to play well and score agaisnt men, that’s risky. If Boqvist can overcome that that it’s more than likely him as hes got more talent than anyone left on the board.

Bouchard: Bouchard is great but he doesn’t have anything Vesalainen doesn’t and though he’s a excellent scoring(especially on the PP) Vesalainen is just as good but the issue with Bouchard is skating and defence(which is his primary objective for his position) where as Vesalainen doesn’t have those issues as he’s a big great skater who is pretty solid in his 2-way game.

Andersson: this year Vesalainen was better as he scored at a higher and rated rate in his league(compared to what’s Andersson did in multiple different leagues this year) and had a better season internationally.

Dobson: You know what, you got me I did not notice Dobson was still left on the board(I think he’s the best non-Dahlin Defensmen since Ekblad), should had been gone at or before 10 IMO(I’m gonna change my vote as soon as I’m done writing this)

Liljegren: This one is pretty easy. Vesalainen is quite a bit better for many reasons.

Brannstrom: He’s great but he is not on the talent or skill level that some others on this list are on(similar to Liljegrens situation).

*(Skipping goalies cause it’s near impossible to cross evaluate prospect players to prospect goalies)

Glass: Didn’t do much more at all this year and it looks as if Vesalainen took a jump ahead offensively as well.

Tkachuk: He’s very overrated(and is a overager in this years draft) but he could possibly be better but I don’t think he’d score as much or as high as Vesalainen did this year in FEL, it’s close but I think Vesalainen is still a little more proven here.

at least spell Cheetol right

 

[Critical13]

Okay I’ll do a list.

Wahlstrom: I think it’s pretty much even going forward but if you internationally Vesalainen has outscored Wahlstroms Numbers in all of the same development years(which is the best comparison), also the rarity of they’re success in each individual league is pretty much just as rare(though FEL is a much harder league), talent wise I think it’s even.

Chythil: Vesalainen has scored at a higher pace this past season in FEL than Chythil in the AHL and it is actually harder to score in FEL, not to mention Vesalainen has scored higher/more internationally.

Boqvist: I think he’s a big issue here, boom or bust, he’s really skilled and talented but hasn’t been able to play well and score agaisnt men, that’s risky. If Boqvist can overcome that that it’s more than likely him as hes got more talent than anyone left on the board.

Bouchard: Bouchard is great but he doesn’t have anything Vesalainen doesn’t and though he’s a excellent scoring(especially on the PP) Vesalainen is just as good but the issue with Bouchard is skating and defence(which is his primary objective for his position) where as Vesalainen doesn’t have those issues as he’s a big great skater who is pretty solid in his 2-way game.

Andersson: this year Vesalainen was better as he scored at a higher and rated rate in his league(compared to what’s Andersson did in multiple different leagues this year) and had a better season internationally.

Dobson: You know what, you got me I did not notice Dobson was still left on the board(I think he’s the best non-Dahlin Defensmen since Ekblad), should had been gone at or before 10 IMO(I’m gonna change my vote as soon as I’m done writing this)

Liljegren: This one is pretty easy. Vesalainen is quite a bit better for many reasons.

Brannstrom: He’s great but he is not on the talent or skill level that some others on this list are on(similar to Liljegrens situation).

*(Skipping goalies cause it’s near impossible to cross evaluate prospect players to prospect goalies)

Glass: Didn’t do much more at all this year and it looks as if Vesalainen took a jump ahead offensively as well.

Tkachuk: He’s very overrated(and is a overager in this years draft) but he could possibly be better but I don’t think he’d score as much or as high as Vesalainen did this year in FEL, it’s close but I think Vesalainen is still a little more proven here.

I've never seen a more poorly constructed argument. Your fan bias is very obvious.

It's always hard to compare a forward prospect to a defensive prospect, or a forward to another forward in a different league, but you used 0 objective reasoning. I can sum up your post with "I think he's better, those guys all have flaws or I don't believe in them".

I would say I am disappointing but I didn't expect much more from you, to be honest. Frail, subjective opinions far outweigh genuine knowledgeable opinions, but at least most people attempt to put a little more effort into it.

 

[StatisticsAddict99]

I've never seen a more poorly constructed argument. Your fan bias is very obvious.

It's always hard to compare a forward prospect to a defensive prospect, or a forward to another forward in a different league, but you used 0 objective reasoning. I can sum up your post with "I think he's better, those guys all have flaws or I don't believe in them".

I would say I am disappointing but I didn't expect much more from you, to be honest. Frail, subjective opinions far outweigh genuine knowledgeable opinions, but at least most people attempt to put a little more effort into it.

Firstly, go ahead do it yourself, if I can’t explain why I believe Vesalainen is better than all those prospects(minus Dobson who I didn’t initially vote for because I didn’t know he was still left). You clearly just don’t like my opinion as your argument here is very vague.

To your second point it’s not hard to compare prospects who play different positions(Forward to Defence) and in different leagues, the player who is better, more skilled and talented is simply that better, higher skilled and more talented, you just don’t like the fact that it doesn’t fit your opinion(which again is vague and very unspecified as you say every prospect listed is better than Vesalainen and then continiue to say you can’t compare most those players because of position right after you asked for the reasoning why). It’s a known fact that different leagues have higher scoring rates and are naturally tougher and it’s not hard to compare players when looking at international scoring, again you just wanna plug your ears.

To your next part how do you evaluate players without looking at there falws(at this point in time Vesalainen really has no visible flaws) so me pointing out flaws, or explaining the fact that he’s scored higher internationally(at the same level) and playing and scoring at nearly a PPG rate in FEL(his success in FEL this season has been the rarest of the players on the list). You simply don’t like my arguments because it doesn’t fit your biased narrative.

I didn’t expect much other than a vague silly counter argument out of you either. I mean I shouldn’t have to give you a prospect report for every player on the list I gave you A brief run down on why I think Vesalainen is here(and it’s not a bad argument because currently the second highest vote getter in this poll are given to Vesalainen, though I don’t entirely agree with it as I believe Dobson is ahead but clearly after Dobson a lot of, if not most people think he’s the best player left on the board).

 

[nowhereman]

Tkachuk should be top 10 but he's quite underrated around these parts. And how does Liljegren have so many votes, lol?

Add Gaudette.

 

[doomscroll]

Firstly, go ahead do it yourself, if I can’t explain why I believe Vesalainen is better than all those prospects(minus Dobson who I didn’t initially vote for because I didn’t know he was still left). You clearly just don’t like my opinion as your argument here is very vague.

To your second point it’s not hard to compare prospects who play different positions(Forward to Defence) and in different leagues, the player who is better, more skilled and talented is simply that better, higher skilled and more talented, you just don’t like the fact that it doesn’t fit your opinion(which again is vague and very unspecified as you say every prospect listed is better than Vesalainen and then continiue to say you can’t compare most those players because of position right after you asked for the reasoning why). It’s a known fact that different leagues have higher scoring rates and are naturally tougher and it’s not hard to compare players when looking at international scoring, again you just wanna plug your ears.

To your next part how do you evaluate players without looking at there falws(at this point in time Vesalainen really has no visible flaws) so me pointing out flaws, or explaining the fact that he’s scored higher internationally(at the same level) and playing and scoring at nearly a PPG rate in FEL(his success in FEL this season has been the rarest of the players on the list). You simply don’t like my arguments because it doesn’t fit your biased narrative.

I didn’t expect much other than a vague silly counter argument out of you either. I mean I shouldn’t have to give you a prospect report for every player on the list I gave you A brief run down on why I think Vesalainen is here(and it’s not a bad argument because currently the second highest vote getter in this poll are given to Vesalainen, though I don’t entirely agree with it as I believe Dobson is ahead but clearly after Dobson a lot of, if not most people think he’s the best player left on the board).

I don’t have a counterpoint, I’m just highlighting the sentences where you immediately contradict yourself.

 

[FinlandPanther]

Tkachuk should be top 10 but he's quite underrated around these parts. And how does Liljegren have so many votes, lol?

Add Gaudette.

I wonder why...

 

[The Burdened]

add Morgan Frost

 

[Sempiternal]

Waste of time when Sorokin is not in the top 10.