PG Canuck
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- Mar 29, 2010
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Haven’t we learned about counting our second rounds picks as “most likely” NHLers too soon?
No
Haven’t we learned about counting our second rounds picks as “most likely” NHLers too soon?
So you're not going to address Jim Benning's 11 years of drafting incompetence outside of the top-10?
Agreed that 2014 was Benning's best year ... in a year where by his own admission he sat back and evaluated while Crawford ran the draft.
Haven’t we learned about counting our second rounds picks as “most likely” NHLers too soon?
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 1 Bo Horvat Bo Horvat Jake Virtanen Brock Boeser Brock Boeser Elias Pettersson Quinton Hughes 2 Hunter Shinkaruk Jake Virtanen Jared McCann Olli Juolevi Elias Pettersson Quinton Hughes Vasili Podkolzin 3 Frank Corrado Hunter Shinkaruk Brock Boeser Thatcher Demko Olli Juolevi Thatcher Demko Thatcher Demko 4 Niklas Jensen Niklas Jensen Thatcher Demko Jake Virtanen Thatcher Demko Olli Juolevi Jett Woo 5 Brendan Gaunce Brendan Gaunce Cole Cassels Nikita Tryamkin Jonathan Dahlen Jonathan Dahlen* Nils Hoglander 6 Jordan Schroeder Jared McCann Hunter Shinkaruk* Brendan Gaunce Adam Gaudette Adam Gaudette Tyler Madden 7 Eddie Lack Frankie Corrado Brendan Gaunce Jordan Subban Nikolay Goldobin Kole Lind Olli Juolevi 8 Joacim Eriksson Linden Vey Ronalds Kenins Troy Stetcher Jake Virtanen Nikolay Goldobin Michael DiPietro 9 Alexandre Mallet Ben Hutton Frank Corrado Guillaume Brisebois Kole Lind Jett Woo Jack Rathbone 10 Ben Hutton Thatcher Demko Adam Clendening* Adam Gaudette Jonah Gadjovich Michael DiPietro Zack MacEwan 11 Henrik Tommernes Dane Fox Ben Hutton Andrey Pedan* Will Lockwood Jonah Gadjovich Will Lockwood 12 Peter Andersson Cole Cassels Jordan Subban Cole Cassels Jordan Subban* Petrus Palmu Guillaume Brisebois 13 Ludwig Blomstrand Joacim Eriksson Guillaume Brisebois Tate Olson Guillaume Brisebois Lukas Jasek Ethan Keppen 14 Patrick McNally Nikita Tryamkin Alex Grenier William Lockwood Michael DiPietro Tyler Madden Kole Lind 15 Joe Cannata Jordan Subban Andrey Pedan Cole Candella Zack MacEwen Will Lockwood Linus Karlsson 16 Jordan Subban Evan McEneny Dmitry Zhukenov Mike Zalewski Evan McEneny Jack Rathbone 17 Darren Archibald Ronalds Kenins Nikita Tryamkin Dmitry Zhukenov Jalen Chatfield Zack MacEwen 18 Cole Cassels Michael Zalewski Niklas Jensen Jakob Stukel Petrus Palmu Guillaume Brisebois 19 Evan McEneny Gustav Forsling Lukas Jasek Carl Neill Jack Rathbone Toni Utenen 20 Joseph LaBate Alexandre Grenier Evan McEneny Lukas Jasek Philip Holm Ashton Sautner 21 Kellan Lain Anton Cederholm Dane Fox 22 Anton Cederholm Kellan Lain
I just addressed our scouting outside the top 10. Looks pretty good from where I sit.
Like I said, what Benning did running the Sabres drafts or as assistant GM in Boston doesn't really concern me here. I care what him and this scouting staff are doing. Because that is going to be what matters for the Canucks going forward.
2015-2017 our non-#1 picks look horrific.
How many times are we going to move the goalposts? What happened to picks outside the top 10?
Never mind 2014, where he took a goalie playing in his backyard at Boston College with his 2nd rd pick, and a Russian behemoth with his next pick.
Hoghandler said:The Bruins didn't employ a head of amateur scouting to oversee their drafts? Do we also look at Benning's work as head of amateur scouting in Buffalo? Do we look at why he became assistant GM in the first place?
Hoghandler said:I'm concerned with his body of work with the Canucks. Because this collection of scouts and managers are running the drafts for the foreseeable future. And on that front, we appear to be in good hands. Something we obviously couldn't say under Mike Gillis.
Assumptions dressed up as facts....If you keep repeating them..will they become true?Benning is on video not even knowing what league Tryamkin was playing in at the time.
Crawford was running that draft (or largely running it), as Benning confirmed in an interview at the time. There is a ton of noise there and it isn't a representative 'Benning draft', just is 2008 isn't a representative 'Gillis draft' and 1998 isn't a representative 'Burke draft'.
We don't employ a head of amateur scouting to oversee our drafts?
What he did in Boston was basically what he does here, only there was an extra business guy above him in Chiarelli. And his results were horrific - worse than what Gillis did here at the same time.
If you think what Gillis did here was so horrific, you should be incredibly concerned that Jim Benning is in the position he is here.
Gillis was so bad ... and yet Benning has found 1 above-replacement level player rounds 2-7 in 60 picks over 11 drafts 2007-2017. There is no material difference in results, except Boeser.
2016 was worse than anything that ever happened under Gillis. And 2017 would have been worse yet if he hadn't been overruled on Pettersson.
I find it hard to have much confidence in a guy who 1) tried to trade the Boeser pick for Lucic in 2015 in what would have been one of the worst trades in franchise history 2) drafted Olli Juolevi in 2016, and 3) didn't want to draft Pettersson in 2017. He was only a tiny bit of circumstance away from singlehandedly completely destroying three straight drafts.
Assumptions dressed up as facts....If you keep repeating them..will they become true?
You never proved them in the first place...Confirmed events from accredited media sources, yes. But feel free to keep sticking your head in the sand. Unless you can prove them wrong, I'm really not keen on having this discussion yet again.
Maybe just stick a 'reportedly' into my post at the points where your cognitive dissonance becomes too high and then try to address the actual points.
You never proved them in the first place...
You never proved them in the first place...
Nope..the burden of proof is on you to prove these assumptions before stating them as fact ....circumstantial evidence is not fact, especially when it comes from a completely biased poster like yourself (which is even obvious in this post)... cool stories though...People use reports of fact from accredited media sources here all the time. It only becomes a problem when Benning fans can't handle what the report is because it makes Dear Leader look like a raging idiot. Again, prove them wrong or move on. The sources plus the circumstantial evidence supporting those reports have been given and discussed here multiple times.
Again, if it bothers you so much, stick a 'reportedly' in there. I'll try to do that in the future just to make the discussion flow better even though you know damned well that what I'm saying is true.
Nope..the burden of proof is on you to prove these assumptions before stating them as fact ....circumstantial evidence is not fact, especially when it comes from a completely biased poster like yourself (which is even obvious in this post)... cool stories though...
Nope..the burden of proof is on you to prove these assumptions before stating them as fact ....circumstantial evidence is not fact, especially when it comes from a completely biased poster like yourself (which is even obvious in this post)... cool stories though...
Accredited media sources have reported them as fact ... and of course it’s really the only thing that makes sense given the circumstantial evidence.
Bias is sticking your head in the sand and ignoring the evidence, not listing credible and quite obviously true reports from accredited sources in the media.
Haven’t we learned about counting our second rounds picks as “most likely” NHLers too soon?
Also, interesting to see that CDC's pool right now has Juolevi at #4, while Woo has only gotten 2 votes
Id of ranked them differently:Tried to highlight players who came off the prospect list the following year because they graduated to the NHL (injuries aside Virtanen was clearly in the NHL by 2017 so I'm counting him as a 2016 graduate). Compare these years to that 2006 list, and the state of the prospect pool as a whole (aside from the four highlights at the #1 spot) don't look too good. And that's generously saying guys like Kenins and Archibald "graduated" ... even Goldobin and Gaudette are no guarantee yet to be 300 game NHLers...
Obviously 2019 could look stacked still if Hughes, Demko, Juolevi, MacEwan and maybe even Woo, and/or Madden are all NHLers in the next 12 months...but unless that happens, this hasn't been some sort of incredible prospect run.
CDC literally bans you if you're critical. Anyone displaying anything less than PoM levels of optimism is as popular as a pork chop in a synagogue.Interesting, but no great surprise.
CDC is a place where in my experience, to misquote the old song "Home on the Range" rarely is heard a discouraging word. It is a forum where reports of OJ not only lacking physicality but actively avoiding contact would be very unlikely to appear. The reports on OJ in the Comets section of hfb-canucks are the most negative I've seen, so it isn't a surprise if he is rated lower on hfb-canucks than elsewhere.
In case there is doubt, I believe Comets watchers who report on the Comets section of hfb-canucks are considerably more accurate than the mainstream media which provides most people with their information on Canucks' prospects.
Id of ranked them differently:
1 Hughes
2 Madden
3 Demko
4 Hoglander
5 Podzkolin
6 Woo
7 Keppen
8 Lind
9 Rathbone
10 Dipietro
11 Macewan
12 Juolevi
13 Focht
14 Karlsson
I didnt rank Lockwood cause hes gonna go UFA next year, he unfortunately looks like he WONT be a Canuck