Prospect Info: HFBoards Canucks Prospect Rankings Since 2013

Hoghandler

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Jul 9, 2019
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So you're not going to address Jim Benning's 11 years of drafting incompetence outside of the top-10?

Agreed that 2014 was Benning's best year ... in a year where by his own admission he sat back and evaluated while Crawford ran the draft.

I just addressed our scouting outside the top 10. Looks pretty good from where I sit.

Like I said, what Benning did running the Sabres drafts or as assistant GM in Boston doesn't really concern me here. I care what him and this scouting staff are doing. Because that is going to be what matters for the Canucks going forward.
 
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Canucks1096

Registered User
Feb 13, 2016
5,608
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Haven’t we learned about counting our second rounds picks as “most likely” NHLers too soon?

I can't speak for other people, I can only speak for myself. The answer is No because I never made the mistake before. I was never ever high on Lind and Gadjovich. Before last season people were calling Negative and I didn't know much about prospects. I still remember one thread people actually thought Lind was as good as Glass.
 

vancityluongo

curse of the strombino
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Jul 8, 2006
18,561
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Edmonton
201320142015201620172018 2019
1Bo HorvatBo HorvatJake VirtanenBrock BoeserBrock BoeserElias PetterssonQuinton Hughes
2Hunter ShinkarukJake VirtanenJared McCannOlli JuoleviElias PetterssonQuinton HughesVasili Podkolzin
3Frank CorradoHunter ShinkarukBrock BoeserThatcher DemkoOlli JuoleviThatcher DemkoThatcher Demko
4Niklas JensenNiklas JensenThatcher DemkoJake VirtanenThatcher DemkoOlli JuoleviJett Woo
5Brendan GaunceBrendan GaunceCole CasselsNikita TryamkinJonathan DahlenJonathan Dahlen*Nils Hoglander
6Jordan SchroederJared McCannHunter Shinkaruk*Brendan GaunceAdam GaudetteAdam GaudetteTyler Madden
7Eddie LackFrankie CorradoBrendan GaunceJordan SubbanNikolay GoldobinKole LindOlli Juolevi
8Joacim ErikssonLinden VeyRonalds KeninsTroy StetcherJake VirtanenNikolay GoldobinMichael DiPietro
9Alexandre MalletBen HuttonFrank CorradoGuillaume BriseboisKole LindJett WooJack Rathbone
10Ben HuttonThatcher DemkoAdam Clendening*Adam GaudetteJonah GadjovichMichael DiPietro Zack MacEwan
11Henrik TommernesDane FoxBen HuttonAndrey Pedan*Will LockwoodJonah GadjovichWill Lockwood
12Peter AnderssonCole CasselsJordan SubbanCole CasselsJordan Subban*Petrus PalmuGuillaume Brisebois
13Ludwig BlomstrandJoacim ErikssonGuillaume BriseboisTate OlsonGuillaume BriseboisLukas JasekEthan Keppen
14Patrick McNallyNikita TryamkinAlex GrenierWilliam LockwoodMichael DiPietroTyler MaddenKole Lind
15Joe CannataJordan SubbanAndrey PedanCole CandellaZack MacEwenWill LockwoodLinus Karlsson
16Jordan SubbanEvan McEnenyDmitry Zhukenov Mike ZalewskiEvan McEnenyJack Rathbone
17Darren ArchibaldRonalds KeninsNikita TryamkinDmitry ZhukenovJalen ChatfieldZack MacEwen
18Cole CasselsMichael ZalewskiNiklas JensenJakob StukelPetrus PalmuGuillaume Brisebois
19Evan McEnenyGustav ForslingLukas JasekCarl NeillJack RathboneToni Utenen
20Joseph LaBateAlexandre GrenierEvan McEnenyLukas JasekPhilip HolmAshton Sautner
21Kellan LainAnton CederholmDane Fox
22Anton CederholmKellan Lain
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Tried to highlight players who came off the prospect list the following year because they graduated to the NHL (injuries aside Virtanen was clearly in the NHL by 2017 so I'm counting him as a 2016 graduate). Compare these years to that 2006 list, and the state of the prospect pool as a whole (aside from the four highlights at the #1 spot) don't look too good. And that's generously saying guys like Kenins and Archibald "graduated" ... even Goldobin and Gaudette are no guarantee yet to be 300 game NHLers...

Obviously 2019 could look stacked still if Hughes, Demko, Juolevi, MacEwan and maybe even Woo, and/or Madden are all NHLers in the next 12 months...but unless that happens, this hasn't been some sort of incredible prospect run.
 

MS

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Mar 18, 2002
53,364
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Vancouver, BC
I just addressed our scouting outside the top 10. Looks pretty good from where I sit.

Like I said, what Benning did running the Sabres drafts or as assistant GM in Boston doesn't really concern me here. I care what him and this scouting staff are doing. Because that is going to be what matters for the Canucks going forward.

You addressed 2014 when Benning wasn't fully running the draft.

2015-2017 our non-#1 picks look horrific.

And you should probably care about his draft record in Boston. He was the guy running the show. Chiarelli wasn't a scout - he was a business guy who started as the Director of Legal Operations in Ottawa. Neither was Sweeney or Neely. Benning oversaw the scouting arm of the organization, he was the guy constantly on the road scouting junior tournaments, he was the guy who was the media point man for the draft explaining reasoning for picks. It isn't much different from what he is doing here - if anything, he was scouting more and more involved. And they were horrific - worse than us under Gillis.
 

Hoghandler

Registered User
Jul 9, 2019
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930
2015-2017 our non-#1 picks look horrific.

How many times are we going to move the goalposts? What happened to picks outside the top 10?

Never mind 2014, where he took a goalie playing in his backyard at Boston College with his 2nd rd pick, and a Russian behemoth with his next pick.

The Bruins didn't employ a head of amateur scouting to oversee their drafts? Do we also look at Benning's work as head of amateur scouting in Buffalo? Do we look at why he became assistant GM in the first place?

I'm concerned with his body of work with the Canucks. Because this collection of scouts and managers are running the drafts for the foreseeable future. And on that front, we appear to be in good hands. Something we obviously couldn't say under Mike Gillis.
 

MS

1%er
Mar 18, 2002
53,364
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Vancouver, BC
How many times are we going to move the goalposts? What happened to picks outside the top 10?

Never mind 2014, where he took a goalie playing in his backyard at Boston College with his 2nd rd pick, and a Russian behemoth with his next pick.

Benning is on video not even knowing what league Tryamkin was playing in at the time.

Crawford was running that draft (or largely running it), as Benning confirmed in an interview at the time. There is a ton of noise there and it isn't a representative 'Benning draft', just is 2008 isn't a representative 'Gillis draft' and 1998 isn't a representative 'Burke draft'.

Hoghandler said:
The Bruins didn't employ a head of amateur scouting to oversee their drafts? Do we also look at Benning's work as head of amateur scouting in Buffalo? Do we look at why he became assistant GM in the first place?

We don't employ a head of amateur scouting to oversee our drafts?

What he did in Boston was basically what he does here, only there was an extra business guy above him in Chiarelli. And his results were horrific - worse than what Gillis did here at the same time.

If you think what Gillis did here was so horrific, you should be incredibly concerned that Jim Benning is in the position he is here.

Hoghandler said:
I'm concerned with his body of work with the Canucks. Because this collection of scouts and managers are running the drafts for the foreseeable future. And on that front, we appear to be in good hands. Something we obviously couldn't say under Mike Gillis.

Gillis was so bad ... and yet Benning has found 1 above-replacement level player rounds 2-7 in 60 picks over 11 drafts 2007-2017. There is no material difference in results, except Boeser.

2016 was worse than anything that ever happened under Gillis. And 2017 would have been worse yet if he hadn't been overruled on Pettersson.

I find it hard to have much confidence in a guy who 1) tried to trade the Boeser pick for Lucic in 2015 in what would have been one of the worst trades in franchise history 2) drafted Olli Juolevi in 2016, and 3) didn't want to draft Pettersson in 2017. He was only a tiny bit of circumstance away from singlehandedly completely destroying three straight drafts.
 

Pastor Of Muppetz

Registered User
Oct 1, 2017
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Benning is on video not even knowing what league Tryamkin was playing in at the time.

Crawford was running that draft (or largely running it), as Benning confirmed in an interview at the time. There is a ton of noise there and it isn't a representative 'Benning draft', just is 2008 isn't a representative 'Gillis draft' and 1998 isn't a representative 'Burke draft'.



We don't employ a head of amateur scouting to oversee our drafts?

What he did in Boston was basically what he does here, only there was an extra business guy above him in Chiarelli. And his results were horrific - worse than what Gillis did here at the same time.

If you think what Gillis did here was so horrific, you should be incredibly concerned that Jim Benning is in the position he is here.



Gillis was so bad ... and yet Benning has found 1 above-replacement level player rounds 2-7 in 60 picks over 11 drafts 2007-2017. There is no material difference in results, except Boeser.

2016 was worse than anything that ever happened under Gillis. And 2017 would have been worse yet if he hadn't been overruled on Pettersson.

I find it hard to have much confidence in a guy who 1) tried to trade the Boeser pick for Lucic in 2015 in what would have been one of the worst trades in franchise history 2) drafted Olli Juolevi in 2016, and 3) didn't want to draft Pettersson in 2017. He was only a tiny bit of circumstance away from singlehandedly completely destroying three straight drafts.
Assumptions dressed up as facts....If you keep repeating them..will they become true?
 
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MS

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Mar 18, 2002
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Assumptions dressed up as facts....If you keep repeating them..will they become true?

Confirmed events from accredited media sources, yes. But feel free to keep sticking your head in the sand. Unless you can prove them wrong, I'm really not keen on having this discussion yet again.

Maybe just stick a 'reportedly' into my post at the points where your cognitive dissonance becomes too high and then try to address the actual points.
 

Pastor Of Muppetz

Registered User
Oct 1, 2017
25,988
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Confirmed events from accredited media sources, yes. But feel free to keep sticking your head in the sand. Unless you can prove them wrong, I'm really not keen on having this discussion yet again.

Maybe just stick a 'reportedly' into my post at the points where your cognitive dissonance becomes too high and then try to address the actual points.
You never proved them in the first place...
 

MS

1%er
Mar 18, 2002
53,364
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Vancouver, BC
You never proved them in the first place...

People use reports of fact from accredited media sources here all the time. It only becomes a problem when Benning fans can't handle what the report is because it makes Dear Leader look like a raging idiot. Again, prove them wrong or move on. The sources plus the circumstantial evidence supporting those reports have been given and discussed here multiple times.

Again, if it bothers you so much, stick a 'reportedly' in there. I'll try to do that in the future just to make the discussion flow better even though you know damned well that what I'm saying is true.
 

Pastor Of Muppetz

Registered User
Oct 1, 2017
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People use reports of fact from accredited media sources here all the time. It only becomes a problem when Benning fans can't handle what the report is because it makes Dear Leader look like a raging idiot. Again, prove them wrong or move on. The sources plus the circumstantial evidence supporting those reports have been given and discussed here multiple times.

Again, if it bothers you so much, stick a 'reportedly' in there. I'll try to do that in the future just to make the discussion flow better even though you know damned well that what I'm saying is true.
Nope..the burden of proof is on you to prove these assumptions before stating them as fact ....circumstantial evidence is not fact, especially when it comes from a completely biased poster like yourself (which is even obvious in this post)... cool stories though...
 

Javaman

Registered User
Jul 13, 2010
2,457
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Vancouver
Nope..the burden of proof is on you to prove these assumptions before stating them as fact ....circumstantial evidence is not fact, especially when it comes from a completely biased poster like yourself (which is even obvious in this post)... cool stories though...

Do you think Benning is a good GM or a bad GM?

Your answer will almost certainly cut through a lot of the noise in these discussions.
 

MS

1%er
Mar 18, 2002
53,364
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Vancouver, BC
Nope..the burden of proof is on you to prove these assumptions before stating them as fact ....circumstantial evidence is not fact, especially when it comes from a completely biased poster like yourself (which is even obvious in this post)... cool stories though...

Accredited media sources have reported them as fact ... and of course it’s really the only thing that makes sense given the circumstantial evidence.

Bias is sticking your head in the sand and ignoring the evidence, not listing credible and quite obviously true reports from accredited sources in the media.
 

Pastor Of Muppetz

Registered User
Oct 1, 2017
25,988
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Accredited media sources have reported them as fact ... and of course it’s really the only thing that makes sense given the circumstantial evidence.

Bias is sticking your head in the sand and ignoring the evidence, not listing credible and quite obviously true reports from accredited sources in the media.

Provide to me the source that Benning 'did not want to draft EP"..(not some cobbled together list of assumptions and 'what ifs'..)....and the source that Benning was in charge of amateur scouting for the Boston Bruins.
 

Hodgy

Registered User
Feb 23, 2012
4,270
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Haven’t we learned about counting our second rounds picks as “most likely” NHLers too soon?

That poster is obviously just trolling. I would just ignore him or her.
 

DomY

Registered User
Aug 11, 2008
1,256
141
Since the last poll of the year closed I thought I would revive this thread. Thanks everyone who participated.
 

Grape

Registered User
Jul 22, 2016
75
46
Honestly as much as people are shitting on the prospects as we got closer to the bottom, I think we do have very good depth in our prospect pool. Our 10-20 is probably better than most 10-20's out there
 

Grape

Registered User
Jul 22, 2016
75
46
Also, interesting to see that CDC's pool right now has Juolevi at #4, while Woo has only gotten 2 votes
 

tyhee

Registered User
Feb 5, 2015
2,535
2,612
Also, interesting to see that CDC's pool right now has Juolevi at #4, while Woo has only gotten 2 votes

Interesting, but no great surprise.

CDC is a place where in my experience, to misquote the old song "Home on the Range" rarely is heard a discouraging word. It is a forum where reports of OJ not only lacking physicality but actively avoiding contact would be very unlikely to appear. The reports on OJ in the Comets section of hfb-canucks are the most negative I've seen, so it isn't a surprise if he is rated lower on hfb-canucks than elsewhere.

In case there is doubt, I believe Comets watchers who report on the Comets section of hfb-canucks are considerably more accurate than the mainstream media which provides most people with their information on Canucks' prospects.
 
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M2Beezy

Objective and Neutral Hockey Commentator
May 25, 2014
45,285
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Tried to highlight players who came off the prospect list the following year because they graduated to the NHL (injuries aside Virtanen was clearly in the NHL by 2017 so I'm counting him as a 2016 graduate). Compare these years to that 2006 list, and the state of the prospect pool as a whole (aside from the four highlights at the #1 spot) don't look too good. And that's generously saying guys like Kenins and Archibald "graduated" ... even Goldobin and Gaudette are no guarantee yet to be 300 game NHLers...

Obviously 2019 could look stacked still if Hughes, Demko, Juolevi, MacEwan and maybe even Woo, and/or Madden are all NHLers in the next 12 months...but unless that happens, this hasn't been some sort of incredible prospect run.
Id of ranked them differently:

1 Hughes
2 Demko
3 Madden
4 Hoglander
5 Podzkolin
6 Woo
7 Keppen
8 Lind
9 Rathbone
10 Dipietro
11 Macewan
12 Juolevi
13 Focht
14 Karlsson

I didnt rank Lockwood cause hes gonna go UFA next year, he unfortunately looks like he WONT be a Canuck
 
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ProstheticConscience

Check dein Limit
Apr 30, 2010
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Interesting, but no great surprise.

CDC is a place where in my experience, to misquote the old song "Home on the Range" rarely is heard a discouraging word. It is a forum where reports of OJ not only lacking physicality but actively avoiding contact would be very unlikely to appear. The reports on OJ in the Comets section of hfb-canucks are the most negative I've seen, so it isn't a surprise if he is rated lower on hfb-canucks than elsewhere.

In case there is doubt, I believe Comets watchers who report on the Comets section of hfb-canucks are considerably more accurate than the mainstream media which provides most people with their information on Canucks' prospects.
CDC literally bans you if you're critical. Anyone displaying anything less than PoM levels of optimism is as popular as a pork chop in a synagogue.
 

LovemyNucks

Registered User
May 26, 2009
281
111
England
Id of ranked them differently:

1 Hughes
2 Madden
3 Demko
4 Hoglander
5 Podzkolin
6 Woo
7 Keppen
8 Lind
9 Rathbone
10 Dipietro
11 Macewan
12 Juolevi
13 Focht
14 Karlsson

I didnt rank Lockwood cause hes gonna go UFA next year, he unfortunately looks like he WONT be a Canuck

Madden in the top 5!?! Don't know about that one. I like him as a prospect and all but that's pretty high.

At a bare minimum I can't see how you can put him above Demko who's already shown to be a competent back-up in the NHL. Demko's upside has been and continues to be a #1 goalie since we drafted him. What Demko has proven so far at the levels he has and the position he plays has got to put him above Madden at the very minimum IMO.
 

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