HFAvs Prospect Ranking Poll #4

[cgf]

And I think with Timmins play style he won’t need elite skating. He could be an above average skater and still become a top pairing guy imo. And that’s what really swings it to Timmins for me, that(even if unlikely) he could be a top pairing dman where Kaut is gonna be more of a high end 3rd liner/low end 2nd liner.

I disagree bigly. With how much he likes to carry the puck, his skating will be especially important IMO. But this is where I've diverged with the consensus on Timmins, from the very beginning of his Avs-dom.

Did you watch the tournaments that they played together. There were times when even commentary themselves compared Makar and Timmins. They said that Timmins might be even better overall player. Speed was not an issue for Timmins.

The WJC =/= the NHL, and Timmins was much more polished at the time.

 

[cgf]

Anyways, add Weiss

 

[Avsboy]

Timmins. Add Kovalenko

 

[The Abusement Park]

I disagree bigly. With how much he likes to carry the puck, his skating will be especially important IMO. But this is where I've diverged with the consensus on Timmins, from the very beginning of his Avs-dom.

I don’t know, I mean he’s definitely got a little bit of. 2way ability to him but I think his as long as his skating gets to above average he’ll be fine. I mean he’s not an offensive dynamo where he has to have the skating edge like Makar does. I think like Henchy said, Mcdonagh is a good comp for Timmins and with that play style high end skating isn’t needed to be a top pairing guy if you can offset it with good IQ and stick work which I think Timmins has plenty of. Now I don’t see Timmins ever being a legit 1D but I don’t think his skating holds him back from being a top pair guy.

 

[Patagonia]

Kaut.

I feel he’s underrated and plays without a sold 1C. International tourneys with better players he excels. Given a chance in the NHL and his stats would be better.

Would have chosen Timmins, but still concerned about his recovery.

Add: Kamenev

 

[AllAboutAvs]

This can't be the Avs' prospects we are rating. We have already voted 2 Ds in the top 3 and we still have 3 Ds in this next 5 choices.

Add Kovalenko.

 

[cgf]

I don’t know, I mean he’s definitely got a little bit of. 2way ability to him but I think his as long as his skating gets to above average he’ll be fine. I mean he’s not an offensive dynamo where he has to have the skating edge like Makar does. I think like Henchy said, Mcdonagh is a good comp for Timmins and with that play style high end skating isn’t needed to be a top pairing guy if you can offset it with good IQ and stick work which I think Timmins has plenty of. Now I don’t see Timmins ever being a legit 1D but I don’t think his skating holds him back from being a top pair guy.

True, if he becomes a McD caliber two-way guy then it's less of an issue, but I think his skill with a puck was a big part of what made him so successful at the junior level...and I dunno how well that part of his game will translate.

 

[John Mandalorian]

This is interesting. I get it that there's a perception that Timmins has bigger upside. But isn't he also a bigger risk than with Kaut? Kaut may not have the upside but he also doesn't have the lost time or injury history.

 

[McMetal]

This is interesting. I get it that there's a perception that Timmins has bigger upside. But isn't he also a bigger risk than with Kaut? Kaut may not have the upside but he also doesn't have the lost time or injury history.

It's tough for me, because I had Timmins 3, Kaut 4, and Newhook 5. I hate to see Kaut drop to 5 because I do really believe in his skill set, but I also can't vote anybody else in over Timmins.

 

[cgf]

It's tough for me, because I had Timmins 3, Kaut 4, and Newhook 5. I hate to see Kaut drop to 5 because I do really believe in his skill set, but I also can't vote anybody else in over Timmins.

This is the reason I've been voting for Pod for like the last 10 spots on the poll board

 

[hockeyfish]

Went off of the consensus with Bowers. Timmins, I've seen concussions de-rail plenty of careers, so I need to see some live game play before I can buy back in. Between Kaut and Bowers, I see both being middle 6 players, but I'll take Bowers as the Center.

 

[avsfan09]

It's tough for me, because I had Timmins 3, Kaut 4, and Newhook 5. I hate to see Kaut drop to 5 because I do really believe in his skill set, but I also can't vote anybody else in over Timmins.

Without concussions what would you expect from Timmins?

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

Did you watch the tournaments that they played together. There were times when even commentary themselves compared Makar and Timmins. They said that Timmins might be even better overall player. Speed was not an issue for Timmins.

I’m Canadian, so yeah the world juniors is on every year haha

I just think we’re setting the expectations way too high if we think Timmins is going to be as good as Makar.

 

[Chiarelli]

Went off of the consensus with Bowers. Timmins, I've seen concussions de-rail plenty of careers, so I need to see some live game play before I can buy back in. Between Kaut and Bowers, I see both being middle 6 players, but I'll take Bowers as the Center.

So switch Bowers and Kaut on teams in WJC last year and we think that’s an even swap? To me it’s not even close bowers is a bottom 6 and kaut top 6

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

It's tough for me, because I had Timmins 3, Kaut 4, and Newhook 5. I hate to see Kaut drop to 5 because I do really believe in his skill set, but I also can't vote anybody else in over Timmins.

Goes to show that our prospect pool is looking pretty nice.

 

[S E P H]

My daily Timmins shouldn't touch the top 5 post, so it's Kaut for me.

Add Kovalenko.

 

[Congo Jack]

Timmins again. Add Kovalenko.

 

[henchman21]

My daily Timmins shouldn't the touch the top 5 post, so it's Kaut for me.

Add Kovalenko.

You should make this twice daily.

 

[TatteredTornNFrayed]

Kaut, add Kamenev

I really like Timmins potential, and liked what I saw last month, but still worry about risks to put him this highly before he's even played a single real game since his unfortunate injury. It's as if now that he's practicing some feel as if he should go back to his previous ranking levels. Maybe it just goes back to those who rank on ceiling (and maybe floor) only, vs. those who try to also figure in chances of reaching or derailing.

Best way in my mind to take all factors into account is to imagine who would most often be viewed to have higher value in trade situations as of right now. Can't imagine most GMs would be willing to offer a piece like Kaut for him 1-for-1 yet, until he's shown he can play a half a season or more without issues. Seen too many guys struggle to stay in a lineup to assume that's a given. But I like how they seemed to handle it the right way, and not rush him back last year. So that gives me hope Conor will overcome this.

My list right after seeing development camp went:
Makar, Byram, Newhook, Kaut, Timmins, Bowers, Kamenev, Greer, Meloche, Ranta, Kovalenko, Helleson, Henry

I could see a few guys still shifting a bit for me after the top 7.

 

[Balthazar]

Make no mistake about it, Timmins pure upside rivals that of Makar.

That doesn't make any sense for many reasons.

Reason number one would be that Makar is playing above expectations for a 4th OA and Timmins missing a whole year sure didn't jump at "above expectations Makar" level of upside.

Timmins had 2nd pairing upside on draft day and it didn't change much. He had a good D+1 year and missed his D+2 year completely...so yeah his upside isn't on Makar level out of the blue (that'd be Byram).

That said, 2nd pairing D > 3rd line winger with 2nd line upside (Kaut). So Timmins gets my vote.

 

[Freaky Styley]

That doesn't make any sense for many reasons.

Reason number one would be that Makar is playing above expectations for a 4th OA and Timmins missing a whole year sure didn't jump at "above expectations Makar" level of upside.

Timmins had 2nd pairing upside on draft day and it didn't change much. He had a good D+1 year and missed his D+2 year completely...so yeah his upside isn't on Makar level out of the blue (that'd be Byram).

That said, 2nd pairing D > 3rd line winger with 2nd line upside (Kaut). So Timmins gets my vote.

He is saying pure upside. Doesn't matter where they were drafted, when playing with their peers Timmins and Makar both excelled and it could be argued Timmins outperformed Makar (albeit given a much bigger role). So pure upside, from there is similar. What's changed is that Timmins got a serious injury and Makar went on to excel at the next level. Does that change Timmins potential? I don't think so, at least not from a pure hockey ability stand point. It might take him longer to get there buy Timmins still has top pairing potential IMO. I don't let injuries cloud my judgement on potential, especially when we have every reason to believe he is back to 100% health. (See Crosby, Bergeron, skinner)

 

[cgf]

That is just insane to me. Makar is an entirely different league for pure upside. His skill level & skating just put his ceiling in another tier. Development isn't linear, so who was the better CHL doesn't matter when we're talking upside.

 

[McMetal]

Without concussions what would you expect from Timmins?

I saw his ceiling as a strong #2D before the injury, now with the lost year of development maybe I'm less bullish on him reaching that ceiling, but I'd say strong #3 two-way D is still very realistic. That elevates him above Kaut (second line winger) and Bowers (third line center).

 

[Barklez]

I just meant that I don’t think Timmins is a high end skater and that’s what limits his upside for me.

It's interesting that you think Timmins' skating limits his upside, but not that Kaut's skating limits his.

Already said my piece, Kaut is getting underrated. A lot of benefit of the doubt given to those who haven’t played a single game of pro hockey yet.

Kaut definitely gets underrated on the whole, but he also just doesn't have the ceiling that some of our other prospects do, Timmins still being one of those.

"A lot of benefit of the doubt given to those who have been dealing with PCS for the last year" comes across way less snarky FYI.

He still has the highest upside out of the guys left. Kaut and Bowers are both up there for me but a step below as I see both as 2nd liners at best.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

It's interesting that you think Timmins' skating limits his upside, but not that Kaut's skating limits his.



Kaut definitely gets underrated on the whole, but he also just doesn't have the ceiling that some of our other prospects do, Timmins still being one of those.

"A lot of benefit of the doubt given to those who have been dealing with PCS for the last year" comes across way less snarky FYI.

He still has the highest upside out of the guys left. Kaut and Bowers are both up there for me but a step below as I see both as 2nd liners at best.

Neither is a bad skater, it was just a contributing factor to me rating Kaut above Timmins.

The main reason I’m going with Kaut is that Timmins has missed so much time and I don’t know where he is at.

Kaut didn’t have a bad season for his first year in the AHL either.