HF Wrestling Draft - Discussion Thread

[Le Barron de HF]

Hey, it's me, it's me, it's CCP.

It's this time of the year again where I am testing the waters concerning the wrestling draft. Is there anybody interested in participating this year? I know @les Habs has been preparing since last summer so I'm sure he'd be disappointed if nobody else wants to participate.

So here are a few things, before we get going, did people like the format last year (draft A vs draft B) where we had cards from the same draft spot going against each other?

For those who have never been exposed to it, here's what it looks like:

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threa...-draft-iv-draft-a-free-agency-rounds.2212325/

And an example of two cards: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/wd-round-1-bruins309-vs-gongshowwilly.2351897/

RULES

1. One wrestler, all gimmicks. i.e If you pick Mick Foley, you get all of his gimmicks (Mankind, Dude Love, Cactus Jack, etc)
2. The goal is to make the best card possible with your roster.
3. This will be 20 rounds. If you want to complete your card with unpicked wrestlers, you can.
4. There will be a tournament to determine the winner.
5. You can pick a team but you have to forfeit your upcoming pick to do so. Note: you can't pick a team if one of the wrestler involved was a world champion in a pretty reputable federation (WWE, WCW, TNA, ECW, NJPW). You must use the team on your card also.
6. There will be a 8 hour limit for every pick. (clock stops between 12AM and 8AM)
7. Trades are allowed but picks can't be involved since it would complicate the process.
8. You must PM the poster after you once you've made your pick.
9. This is a snake draft.
10. Match types count as picks and they are limited.

2 Hell in a Cell match
3 I Quit/Last Man Standing match
3 Ironman matches
5 Ladder/TLC matches
5 Hardcore/No DQ Matches
5 Cage matches


So who's in?

Participants:
@Cor
@les Habs
@PeterSidorkiewicz
@GKJ
@Emperoreddy
@JackSlater
@HandsomeHollywood
@Live in the Now
@theedge9
@Morozov
@CHGoalie27
@quoipourquoi
@Habsrule
@GongShowWilly
@Sheppy
@ColePens

Click to read more...

 

[Cor]

I'm In

 

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

Yessssss. I am IN. I need to overcome my disappointment from last year. I think with cards it depends how many people want to participate. If it’s a large amount do it like last year, if not do it like years previously. IMO.

 

[les Habs]

FINALLY @les Habs will get to participate in a Wrestling draft!

Thank you @Chris Cutter for remembering and I look forward to the draft!

 

[GKJ]

I am in.

I have much fewer ideas than I had last year, but I found you have to throw a lot of them out and adapt to the draft format.

Will be fun to see whose stock has gone up and down

 

[Le Barron de HF]

I am in.

I have much fewer ideas than I had last year, but I found you have to throw a lot of them out and adapt to the draft format.

Will be fun to see whose stock has gone up and down

Yeah that's definitely one of the interesting aspects of this.

 

[Emperoreddy]

I mean I have to defend my title, right?

 

[les Habs]

So I have a few questions and a few comments/suggestions/ideas. Please don't take this as me overstepping my place being a newcomer and you'll most of these are questions:

• Trades: From what I can see trades are allowed. However you can only trade wrestlers and not picks, correct? Also, do trades have to be one for one or can they be multiples for one/multiples. IE could you trade Gretzky for Ovechkin and Crosby or would it have to be Gretzky for Crosby?
• Cards: Can you switch your card from round to round assuming you advance? IE You drafted wrestlers A, B, C and D. First round you have A vs B and C vs D. You advance to the next round and you want to switch things up, so you do A vs D and C vs B. Of course again all would be wrestlers you drafted and the alternate card would be submitted on time. If not, I would suggest this is something as a possibility. I think it would make things far more interesting and you could use a wrestler as a different gimmick.
• Free Agency Rounds: They seemed to become a free-for-all at some point. For example someone drafted an entire faction last year with one pick. What exactly are the rules? Is it two picks per round? Also, it seems as though the draft order at some point might have gone out the window in the free agency rounds. Do we stick to the draft order? My suggestion would be two picks per round and it's the even round draft order for every round of free agency.
• Time limit and draft window: 8 hours between picks. Makes sense to me. However the window closing is something new. Not sure if anyone is from Europe or other continents (I'm used to the Soccer Drafts), but would it make more sense to keep the window open and just have a maximum of say 9 or 10 hours between picks? I ask because 10pm can be a bit early for me on occasion.
• Match type picks: Can we take multiples of a match type? IE let's say there are three Hell in a Cell matches to be taken (I know it's only one, but I'm just using this an example). Could someone conceivably draft all three assuming they're not already picked?
• Creating wrestlers/tag teams/factions: Can you create a wrestler, tag team or faction? IE you draft Gretzky, but you call him the Blue Raider. Or you create a faction called "The 44 Horsemen"? I'm assuming "yes" since I essentially saw this last year.

Anyway, sorry for all the questions, but I just want to get them out of the way before we start.

 

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

I feel like Chris does all the work so he can make the rules but bssed on previous stuff

Trades were banned from what I remember it just makes it way easier.

One card and it doesn’t change previously as well.

As far as tag teams if they were a legit tag team you can draft them as a tag team, but they have to be USED as a tag team.
Example: you draft edge and Christian at once. You have to use them as a tag team on your card. And if youndraft then as a tag team that’s two picks so you’re skipped next round.

So let’s say in round 5 I take the entire new day, round 5 6 7 are done for me.

 

[les Habs]

I'd be open to last year's format. I think it might be easier, but I'm open to whatever.

I feel like Chris does all the work so he can make the rules but bssed on previous stuff

Trades were banned from what I remember it just makes it way easier.

One card and it doesn’t change previously as well.

As far as tag teams if they were a legit tag team you can draft them as a tag team, but they have to be USED as a tag team.
Example: you draft edge and Christian at once. You have to use them as a tag team on your card. And if youndraft then as a tag team that’s two picks so you’re skipped next round.

So let’s say in round 5 I take the entire new day, round 5 6 7 are done for me.

There were trades last year, albeit only two of them.

Changing the card was more a suggestion as something optional if one wanted to.

Thanks for the clarification, but I get how tag teams work (though I didn't know you could draft a man set). I'm more curious about creating a fictional tag team but with actual wrestlers that one has drafted.

 

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

I'd be open to last year's format. I think it might be easier, but I'm open to whatever.



There were trades last year, albeit only two of them.

Changing the card was more a suggestion as something optional if one wanted to.

Thanks for the clarification, but I get how tag teams work (though I didn't know you could draft a man set). I'm more curious about creating a fictional tag team but with actual wrestlers that one has drafted.

Oh yeah sorry I guess I didn’t read it’s properly but I’m pretty sure people did fictional tag teams for sure and some even set up storylines and whatnot. Everything is pretty open.

 

[les Habs]

Oh yeah sorry I guess I didn’t read it’s properly but I’m pretty sure people did fictional tag teams for sure and some even set up storylines and whatnot. Everything is pretty open.

Thanks. I guess it's a chance one can take because depending on your approach to the draft (IE whether you're concerned with winning) it may or may not work so well.

 

[JackSlater]

I'm in. I will think about format and stuff for later.

 

[HandsomeHollywood]

Finally. I've been sitting at home, spinning my wheels and lurking for over a year, eagerly anticipating this very moment.

Sign me up.

 

[Le Barron de HF]

So I have a few questions and a few comments/suggestions/ideas. Please don't take this as me overstepping my place being a newcomer and you'll most of these are questions:

• Trades: From what I can see trades are allowed. However you can only trade wrestlers and not picks, correct? Also, do trades have to be one for one or can they be multiples for one/multiples. IE could you trade Gretzky for Ovechkin and Crosby or would it have to be Gretzky for Crosby?
• Cards: Can you switch your card from round to round assuming you advance? IE You drafted wrestlers A, B, C and D. First round you have A vs B and C vs D. You advance to the next round and you want to switch things up, so you do A vs D and C vs B. Of course again all would be wrestlers you drafted and the alternate card would be submitted on time. If not, I would suggest this is something as a possibility. I think it would make things far more interesting and you could use a wrestler as a different gimmick.
• Free Agency Rounds: They seemed to become a free-for-all at some point. For example someone drafted an entire faction last year with one pick. What exactly are the rules? Is it two picks per round? Also, it seems as though the draft order at some point might have gone out the window in the free agency rounds. Do we stick to the draft order? My suggestion would be two picks per round and it's the even round draft order for every round of free agency.
• Time limit and draft window: 8 hours between picks. Makes sense to me. However the window closing is something new. Not sure if anyone is from Europe or other continents (I'm used to the Soccer Drafts), but would it make more sense to keep the window open and just have a maximum of say 9 or 10 hours between picks? I ask because 10pm can be a bit early for me on occasion.
• Match type picks: Can we take multiples of a match type? IE let's say there are three Hell in a Cell matches to be taken (I know it's only one, but I'm just using this an example). Could someone conceivably draft all three assuming they're not already picked?
• Creating wrestlers/tag teams/factions: Can you create a wrestler, tag team or faction? IE you draft Gretzky, but you call him the Blue Raider. Or you create a faction called "The 44 Horsemen"? I'm assuming "yes" since I essentially saw this last year.

Anyway, sorry for all the questions, but I just want to get them out of the way before we start.

Trades are allowed although I would have to re-look at the old threads to see what was determined about trades between Draft A and Draft B. There is no official rule about the cards changing from one round to another, it's something I would have to think over. I can see the merits being both sides (against: you made a card that would beat anyone no matter what, for: your roster had enough versatility and depth to make things different), I would be inclined on saying yes since it could show how much a poster did their HW regarding their card. Free Agency rounds became free for all after a certain point since we were all becoming exhausted after over a month of drafting and wanting to post our cards. I do recall that we started doing it after a certain round (ex: 30). I would be inclined on keeping the time limit and window closing since most of us are in NA but I can understand how it may not be convenient for posters in Europe etc. In that case you could PM me a list since I won't be participating this year. Yes a poster could pick the same match type more than once. Finally yes you can create your own teams or factions, the more creative, the better

 

[les Habs]

Trades are allowed although I would have to re-look at the old threads to see what was determined about trades between Draft A and Draft B. There is no official rule about the cards changing from one round to another, it's something I would have to think over. I can see the merits being both sides (against: you made a card that would beat anyone no matter what, for: your roster had enough versatility and depth to make things different), I would be inclined on saying yes since it could show how much a poster did their HW regarding their card. Free Agency rounds became free for all after a certain point since we were all becoming exhausted after over a month of drafting and wanting to post our cards. I do recall that we started doing it after a certain round (ex: 30). I would be inclined on keeping the time limit and window closing since most of us are in NA but I can understand how it may not be convenient for posters in Europe etc. In that case you could PM me a list since I won't be participating this year. Yes a poster could pick the same match type more than once. Finally yes you can create your own teams or factions, the more creative, the better

What? No way. You have to participate!

New question about picking match types: Sorry for another question, but forgot to add this to my initial post. I'll use Hell in a Cell as an example again. Say you drafted Hell in a Cell and there was only one. Can you use it more than once on that card? Say you wanted to have a Hell in a Cell card where every match was a Hell in a Cell match. That's why I asked my original question about drafting certain match types more than once.

 

[Le Barron de HF]

L

What? No way. You have to participate!

New question about picking match types: Sorry for another question, but forgot to add this to my initial post. I'll use Hell in a Cell as an example again. Say you drafted Hell in a Cell and there was only one. Can you use it more than once on that card? Say you wanted to have a Hell in a Cell card where every match was a Hell in a Cell match. That's why I asked my original question about drafting certain match types more than once.

Oh, in that case no you can't.

 

[les Habs]

Oh, in that case no you can't.

Say in my example though, there were three Hell in a Cell matches and you drafted two of them you could use them both, right?

 

[Le Barron de HF]

Say in my example though, there were three Hell in a Cell matches and you drafted two of them you could use them both, right?

Yep!

 

[Cor]

Hi, just a question.

What’s a draft?

 

[JackSlater]

I will provide some of my thoughts regarding format and rules, though as noted as Chris Cutter runs the show and does it well, it is completely up to him.

General format - I prefer one big draft, particularly if the number of participants isn't crazy high. If there are only 20 people for instance I would prefer just one draft. Thinking about good ways to use underutilized or underappreciated wrestlers from the past is quite possibly my favourite aspect of the draft. The two pools worked out very well last year, but I found that it was almost too easy to load every match with main event level talent.

Trades - I'm not a fan as it makes the draft itself less significant but I don't really care all that much. I would be against trades between people in different pools though. It is a good question regarding if trades have to be one for one. I don't remember if there was a rule about that before.

Tag teams - I think that these rules need to be clarified. Two years ago the rule was that you could draft a tag team and it took two consecutive picks to do so (a rule that I agreed with) and last year it was added that you couldn't draft a tag team that featured a world champion. I do think that this rule is a step in the right direction, as someone drafting something like the RocknSock connection isn't really fair, but there does need to be more clarity. It was said last year that you couldn't draft a world champion of a major promotion, but it isn't clear what exactly a major promotion is. I recall that Strike Force was drafted, but Rick Martel was an AWA heavyweight champion. Things like that. I would also say, as a minor thing, that after some number of rounds (like 5 or 7 or something) the champion rule can be dropped, as situations like RocknSock (or Mega Powers or whatever else) aren't possible as for the most part the all time legends have already been drafted. If someone really wanted Edge and Christian for example, they could take the risk and draft Edge early and then hope to get Christian later. I guess that three man teams work in the same manner as tag teams.

Card switching - I never considered card switching. Not sure if I dislike it or I don't care. I lean toward disliking it as a person can change their card based on what other people have said, meaning that we are more judging rosters than anything else if a person begins adapting to what everyone tells them. Regardless of the rule I will keep my card the same, provided that I even make it into more than one round.

Free Agency - It mostly works fine, except when someone jumps the gun and drafts too many at once. Selecting three per day (or something like that) on a first come first served basis is fine. If everyone else is done then I don't see why the last person picking couldn't just make all of their picks at once.

Time Limit - I'm in favour of whatever the shortest limit is. It is annoying when one person single-handedly extends the draft by days. I agree with turning the clock off during some established period in the night, but a hard clock during the day is best to keep the pace up. A person who misses their pick should be allowed to make up the pick whenever they next log on even after their clock has run out, as it is more about keeping the pace up rather than punishing lateness. I would like something like a five or six hour clock for picks, at least during the day.

 

[Le Barron de HF]

I will provide some of my thoughts regarding format and rules, though as noted as Chris Cutter runs the show and does it well, it is completely up to him.

General format - I prefer one big draft, particularly if the number of participants isn't crazy high. If there are only 20 people for instance I would prefer just one draft. Thinking about good ways to use underutilized or underappreciated wrestlers from the past is quite possibly my favourite aspect of the draft. The two pools worked out very well last year, but I found that it was almost too easy to load every match with main event level talent.

Trades - I'm not a fan as it makes the draft itself less significant but I don't really care all that much. I would be against trades between people in different pools though. It is a good question regarding if trades have to be one for one. I don't remember if there was a rule about that before.

Tag teams - I think that these rules need to be clarified. Two years ago the rule was that you could draft a tag team and it took two consecutive picks to do so (a rule that I agreed with) and last year it was added that you couldn't draft a tag team that featured a world champion. I do think that this rule is a step in the right direction, as someone drafting something like the RocknSock connection isn't really fair, but there does need to be more clarity. It was said last year that you couldn't draft a world champion of a major promotion, but it isn't clear what exactly a major promotion is. I recall that Strike Force was drafted, but Rick Martel was an AWA heavyweight champion. Things like that. I would also say, as a minor thing, that after some number of rounds (like 5 or 7 or something) the champion rule can be dropped, as situations like RocknSock (or Mega Powers or whatever else) aren't possible as for the most part the all time legends have already been drafted. If someone really wanted Edge and Christian for example, they could take the risk and draft Edge early and then hope to get Christian later. I guess that three man teams work in the same manner as tag teams.

Card switching - I never considered card switching. Not sure if I dislike it or I don't care. I lean toward disliking it as a person can change their card based on what other people have said, meaning that we are more judging rosters than anything else if a person begins adapting to what everyone tells them. Regardless of the rule I will keep my card the same, provided that I even make it into more than one round.

Free Agency - It mostly works fine, except when someone jumps the gun and drafts too many at once. Selecting three per day (or something like that) on a first come first served basis is fine. If everyone else is done then I don't see why the last person picking couldn't just make all of their picks at once.

Time Limit - I'm in favour of whatever the shortest limit is. It is annoying when one person single-handedly extends the draft by days. I agree with turning the clock off during some established period in the night, but a hard clock during the day is best to keep the pace up. A person who misses their pick should be allowed to make up the pick whenever they next log on even after their clock has run out, as it is more about keeping the pace up rather than punishing lateness. I would like something like a five or six hour clock for picks, at least during the day.

You raised some good points JS, especially concerning the changing cards idea.

 

[les Habs]

General format - I prefer one big draft, particularly if the number of participants isn't crazy high. If there are only 20 people for instance I would prefer just one draft. Thinking about good ways to use underutilized or underappreciated wrestlers from the past is quite possibly my favourite aspect of the draft. The two pools worked out very well last year, but I found that it was almost too easy to load every match with main event level talent.

I liked last year's set up. What would concern me about it would be one draft that might be ahead of another draft influencing that other draft, but that didn't seem to happen so much. I agree it loads up matches with more main event level talent, but I think that's a good thing, and this is coming from someone who would prefer drafting your own federation as opposed to just a card.

Trades - I'm not a fan as it makes the draft itself less significant but I don't really care all that much. I would be against trades between people in different pools though. It is a good question regarding if trades have to be one for one. I don't remember if there was a rule about that before.

I actually don't anticipate myself doing a lot of trades if we can, but just wanted to know the options. I mean I'd consider a trade or two, but can't see it happening that much.

Tag teams - I think that these rules need to be clarified. Two years ago the rule was that you could draft a tag team and it took two consecutive picks to do so (a rule that I agreed with) and last year it was added that you couldn't draft a tag team that featured a world champion. I do think that this rule is a step in the right direction, as someone drafting something like the RocknSock connection isn't really fair, but there does need to be more clarity. It was said last year that you couldn't draft a world champion of a major promotion, but it isn't clear what exactly a major promotion is. I recall that Strike Force was drafted, but Rick Martel was an AWA heavyweight champion. Things like that. I would also say, as a minor thing, that after some number of rounds (like 5 or 7 or something) the champion rule can be dropped, as situations like RocknSock (or Mega Powers or whatever else) aren't possible as for the most part the all time legends have already been drafted. If someone really wanted Edge and Christian for example, they could take the risk and draft Edge early and then hope to get Christian later. I guess that three man teams work in the same manner as tag teams.

Don't ask me to find it, but I thought the rules were pretty well laid out as to what a major promotion was. I saw it somewhere and even TNA was included on the list which pretty much rules out a lot of tag teams. I actually like your idea about the rule sun-setting after a certain round. In fact I would think in either draft set up it could be after the 3rd round.

Card switching - I never considered card switching. Not sure if I dislike it or I don't care. I lean toward disliking it as a person can change their card based on what other people have said, meaning that we are more judging rosters than anything else if a person begins adapting to what everyone tells them. Regardless of the rule I will keep my card the same, provided that I even make it into more than one round.

I'm aware of your concern as it occurred to me. I was simply coming from a place of doing what I want with the guys I draft. I think it'd be cool to see cards evolve with new storylines as they do in real life. I'm most concerned with my opinion of my final card, not so much winning. Again though, I understand your concern. However my take based on what I saw the last couple of year is that not too many people would be able to make adaptations to their cards for the better. I suggested a few last year, but there were only one or two cards that would have really improved in my opinion. On top of that not everyone would have agreed with me.

Free Agency - It mostly works fine, except when someone jumps the gun and drafts too many at once. Selecting three per day (or something like that) on a first come first served basis is fine. If everyone else is done then I don't see why the last person picking couldn't just make all of their picks at once.

I was thinking you could 2-3 per day on a first come, first serve basis. Or better yet, as guys pull out and say they're done with their cards, you could have guys make 2-3 picks more than once per day so long as the other participants have also picked. I guess my take would be this:

• Start with even round order.
• Two picks per person.
• Just keep following the snake draft. So if C, B and then A draft, if the window is still open C can draft again and so on. Then the next day you just pick up where you left off.
• You could also shorten the time limit to say 6 hours.

Time Limit - I'm in favour of whatever the shortest limit is. It is annoying when one person single-handedly extends the draft by days. I agree with turning the clock off during some established period in the night, but a hard clock during the day is best to keep the pace up. A person who misses their pick should be allowed to make up the pick whenever they next log on even after their clock has run out, as it is more about keeping the pace up rather than punishing lateness. I would like something like a five or six hour clock for picks, at least during the day.

I hear you, but I think there has to be a reasonable limit in place. I work and I have a shifting schedule at times. I can't necessarily always be on while I'm at work either. That said I've done a lot of soccer drafts and am completely reliable. Punishing tardiness also keeps up the pace in my experience. I would suggest the following:

• 8 hour time limit minimum.
• No draft window, or at least a larger window if you're going to have one.
• If you go past 8 hours, you drop down to a 7 hour time limit. Next offense 6 hours and so on. Something like that.

Anyway, sorry if I'm offering too much input. My big thing is the free agency rounds having an order of some sort and at least an 8 hour time limit. Trades would be a nice option, but I don't care too much about those. I'd really like card switching and am more passionate about that than trades, but it's not that big a deal either.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Figured major promotion was WWF, WCW, ECW, New Japan, and TNA.

I think that pretty much covers any main eventers that were in a tag team at some point.

Most of the rules were fine last year, and the draft moved at a good pace.

I think trades were fine too. Was just wrestler for wrestler, you couldn’t trade picks.

 

[Live in the Now]

In please.