(HF Story) OHL Top 40 Eligible Players for 2005

[Wonder Boy]

Bobby Ryan CANNOT skate worth anything. Pouliot is one of the best skaters in the draft plain and simple. Yes Ryan had more points, but ryan has been in the league for two years now, this is pouliot's first, just the fact he can come out of nowhere and earn chl rookie of the year honors is amazing, he deserves all the hype he gets

Not to mention Ryan played with better linemates on a better team.

 

[Guy Flaming]

I see why you compare them as power forwards, but I have to disagree beyond that. Pouilot is twice the skater Ladd is. His vision and ability to beat players one-on-one is the best I've seen in years coming from the OHL. He has the best first 3 steps in the OHL, maybe CHL even. His hands are smooth around the net, he likes to find the puck and go to the net. Sometimes he fakes and passes, but overall has the makings of a top NHL Power Forward.

He got his nose dirty as the season progressed. He was a marked man for 3/4 of the season and playoffs and managed to produce on a thin Sudbury team.

IMO he's a top 3 pick.

Ladd reminds me of Pyatt.

The Ladd comparison was only used because the original question was "would any team take a player so high when they've only had 1 big CHL season?" I said yes, look at Ladd. Whether Ladd and Pouliot are anything a like on the ice was never in the conversation.

 

[Guy Flaming]

How about generating some discussion...

Tell me, outside of the top 10 in this list, who is the:

1) best skater
2) best playmaker
3) most natural goal scorer
4) best two-way forward
5) top offensive defenceman
6) biggest hitter
7) most underrated
8) most overrated
9) most likely to "bust"
10) safest pick


I'm interested to hear more reader feedback so let's go!

 

[ZombieMatt]

I'll elaborate my full thoughts on the list later, Guy.

I'm still waiting to hear contrary views of a list.

I'm pretty unfamiliar with the OHL outside the top 10-15, so I just want to hear some alternative views.

 

[Boomhower]

Tell me, outside of the top 10 in this list, who is the:

I'm interested to hear more reader feedback so let's go!

1) best skater
F: Cody Bass
D: Matt Pelech, for a big guy he's really mobile. (kind of by default though)

2) best playmaker
F:Steve Downie
D: Patrick McNeil

3) most natural goal scorer
F:Evan Brophy - Great shot and has a knack for finding room in the high slot.
D: Ryan Wilson - huge shot and is always looking to uncork it, probably jumps up more than he should.

4) best two-way forward
Steve Downie, Mike Duco's pretty good too.

5) top offensive defenceman
Danny Syvret

6) biggest hitter
F: Micheal Blunden, there are quite a few heavy hitters.
D: Ryan Wilson, absolute tank on his skates.

7) most underrated
F: Downie
D: Phil Oreskovic

8) most overrated
F: Cody Bass and Chris Lawrence
D: Danny Syvret (Kindl's top 10, so I guess he's off limits?)

9) most likely to "bust"
F:Lawrence (someone is likely to pick him higher than expected because of his size)
D: Where they're projected to go, I don't think you could really say anyone has "bust potential".

10) safest pick
F: Steve Downie (I believe he'll make it and become the most hated NHL player). I'd say Blunden too, but some people still have him 1st round.
D: There isn't really a safe pick, I'd say Pelech's game, but injuries make him risky.

 

[FearTheFlyers]

Sorry for the delay in this post Matt.

First and foremost, I don't like Pouliot ahead of Ryan. Ryan flat out dominates games and is far more noticeable than Pouliot.

Secondly, I don't like Staal ahead of O Marra. Stall seems to me to be a very ordinary prospect who, because he wasn't shown up like all other d-man at the prospects game, is higly overrated. He's not great one on one and looks passive against forwards who bear down on him, especially in open ice.

Staal is better with the puck than most d-men in the OHL, but for a defensive defenseman he isin't all that solid defensively. Good positionally but is broken down easier than he should be in his own zone. His adequate skating doesn't help.I think 4 is too high for a " safe" pck.

I really like Ryan O Marra and I think because he hasn't put up amazing numbers he gets overrated. He reminds me a ton of Jeff Carter, not huge scorers but a great skater with some great moves and a nice shot I can't help but notice the resemblence.


Third problem

Parent-Lashoff-Kindl.

Kindl blows these two guys out of the water in pretty much every part of the game. Lashoof, I know has struggled with injuries but he is a guy that I really don;'t think is all that good. Bottom line. He was one of the few Rangers to struggle against Owen Sound in the semis and never ever looked sure of himself on the ice.

Parent is a lot like Staal, with less playmaking ability and perphaps a little more solid defensively. Another safe pick that I can't see becoming more than a 3 or 4 NHL d-man.

I really like Kindl, he adjusted better than most to North America and has so much more skills and potential than nay other OHL d-man it would be foolish for him to be the 4th one taken. He needs some fine tuning defensively and positionally, but he could be great.

Adam McQuaid? This guy is a guy who has what he has now, and will never develop any kind of dangerous skillset. To have him ahead of guys like Wilson, McNeill, Lawrence, Davis etc is very very strange.

Others too high:

Smolenak-one dimensional
Ryder- too inconsistent, dissapears against physical play
Syvret- Yeah he looked good as a 20 year old against 18 year olds. So did lots of others. A product of the Knights hype machine, at least 15 spots too high.
Neal- I like Lawrence and Collins better, both have better skillsets much more potential.


Others Too Low:

Cal O Reilly: Better than Ryder. Like ISS said brutal defensively, but I don't understand Downie ahead of him either.

Beaulieu: Played well with limite minutes, could be a steal. Will put up numbers next year.

McNeill: I don't understand this, he is far better on the puck than Parent and Lashioff and it's not like he's brutal defensively. Could have something to do with he plays in Saginaw the other two are in big markets.

Clune: This guy is a hell of a player. Maturing offensively and good in his own end Another possible steal. Much more well rounded and consistent than someone like Pyatt.

I know this list is a crapshoot, but I didn't really like it.

 

[Boomhower]

Agree about Smolenak, this kid will be meat in the pros. He plays the game with his head down (Think Boyd Devereaux without the speed and lesser playmaking skills). Some of the heaviest hits I saw this year were on him.

He over stickhandles all the time and usually fails to move the puck effectively. (in all zones of the ice)

Maybe a stab in the dark pick, but 7th in the OHL seems really high.

BTW- I've heard that Pouliot voluntarily left the Wolves camp as a 17 year old, because he wanted to be with his father, otherwise he would have made the team.
Whether it's true or not...

 

[FearTheFlyers]

Most Overrated Chris Lawrence
9) most likely to "bust"
F:Lawrence (someone is likely to pick him higher than expected because of his size)
D: Where they're projected to go, I don't think you could really say anyone has "bust potential".

Personally I love Lawrence's game and I feel with his skill level he is at least top 12. If he could just show some more hustle...

 

[Guy Flaming]

Personally I love Lawrence's game and I feel with his skill level he is at least top 12. If he could just show some more hustle...

So you disagree witht he 2 scouting reports then?

Does anybody else disagree with the what the scouts had to say about a player?

 

[FearTheFlyers]

So you disagree witht he 2 scouting reports then?

Does anybody else disagree with the what the scouts had to say about a player?

I disagree with the first scout.Yeah he was dissappointing to an extent. But the flashes of brilliance make you think there's far more potential there than someone like Blunden.

 

[Anthony Mauro]

So you disagree witht he 2 scouting reports then?

Does anybody else disagree with the what the scouts had to say about a player?

Lawrence definately deserves the spot he was given. Mr. "Invisible" could be a player, but right now he hasnt shown much. Such a big guy should let his presence be known atleast once in a while, but Lawrence seems like he's fine letting other guys step up.

Im betting theres a bigger chance of him becoming Michael Henrich than Jeff Carter.

 

[Anthony Mauro]

Adam McQuaid? This guy is a guy who has what he has now, and will never develop any kind of dangerous skillset. To have him ahead of guys like Wilson, McNeill, Lawrence, Davis etc is very very strange.

I bet you thought Shea Weber was crap as well?

You make it sound like McQuaid is the next Rich Pilon. Its strange that a guy with some doubters is ranked ahead of guys with even more doubters?

 

[FearTheFlyers]

I bet you thought Shea Weber was crap as well?

You make it sound like McQuaid is the next Rich Pilon. Its strange that a guy with some doubters is ranked ahead of guys with even more doubters?

I find it weird a guy who has shown very little in terms of a skillful game is ranked so high.

 

[FearTheFlyers]

Another thing? Where the hell is Kevin Lalande? He is an 87 right?

 

[Anthony Mauro]

I find it weird a guy who has shown very little in terms of a skillful game is ranked so high.

Who knows, maybe people are smartening up in their search to unearth gems? All steals, diamonds in the rough have holes in their games that they fix in the year following their draft(most of the times, sometimes it takes a little longer) and become very good players. I see McQuaid as a big d-man who gains confidence offensively and puts up stats that will assure his making of the NHL. It also helps a TON that McQuaid loves the game and competes hard. This most definitely influences a improved learning curve. Someone who cares and works hard at an aspect of their game is most likely gonna improve it greatly.

 

[Guy Flaming]

Another thing? Where the hell is Kevin Lalande? He is an 87 right?

He was on our top 50 list but didn't make the top 40. There were 9 others too (don't ask).

 

[FearTheFlyers]

He was on our top 50 list but didn't make the top 40. There were 9 others too (don't ask).

Lalande was IMO the best goalie in the OHL this year. It's close with him and Battochio. He is miles above Machesney and I question him not being on here.

 

[turnbuckle*]

Jeez Gagne; you'd swear you watched every OHL game this season or are an NHL head scout the way you talk. Ever thought of mixing in the odd "IMO" or "I think" with all of your dead-set opinions? What makes it even tougher to handle is that I disagree with plenty of your "etched in stone" opinions such as lauding a stiff like Lawrence and downplaying Staal (as was stated by people "in the know", Staal is as safe a prospect as you'll find), Pyatt and McQuaid. Everyone's entitled to their opinions, but the word "overboard" comes to mind in your case.

 

[FearTheFlyers]

Jeez Gagne; you'd swear you watched every OHL game this season or are an NHL head scout the way you talk. Ever thought of mixing in the odd "IMO" or "I think" with all of your dead-set opinions? What makes it even tougher to handle is that I disagree with plenty of your "etched in stone" opinions such as lauding a stiff like Lawrence and downplaying Staal (as was stated by people "in the know", Staal is as safe a prospect as you'll find), Pyatt and McQuaid. Everyone's entitled to their opinions, but the word "overboard" comes to mind in your case.

I didn't like the list and they asked me why. I told them. what is wrong with that? It's obviously my opinion. The only thing that really bothers me is the omission of Lalande as it's obvious they just didn't watch him enough.

 

[turnbuckle*]

What's wrong was your know-it-allish tone. You were asked to explain yourself only after the boorish comment that it was a "pretty horrible list". As was pointed out, scouts that see these players all the time were polled for this list, these guys have some idea of what they're talking about, as obviously did the HF folks that compiled the list.

I disagree with some (not many) of the rankings, but to call it 'horrible' is ignorant and unfounded. If you ask me the list is damn close to what will transpire. There is a decent chance that Pouliot will get picked ahead of Ryan, and there's an even better chance that Staal will be selected in front of O'Marra. Hell; Parent may get picked ahead of O'Marra depending on who is making the pick. Florida is one team that hasn't hidden its admiration for Parent, and he may end up being a top ten pick while O'Marra slips into the teens. Believe it or not, there are some scouts that still have concerns about O'Marra's speed at the next level, although his performance at the under 18s turned a lot of heads. He was not a top 10 consideration before that tournament I don't think.

I'd be damn surprised if Pouliot was not one of the top three OHL players taken, same with Ryan; Staal will be one of the top five OHLers selected, I personally think he'll be the second or third OHLer. HF had Pouliot and Ryan one-two, and Staal third. WTF is "horrible" about that? Do you disagree that Pouliot will be one of the top 3 OHLers taken? Do you disagree that Staal will be one of the top five OHLers taken?

I would hazzard to guess that a "horrible" list would also include plenty of players not listed in the top 10 that you feel should be there. Other than Lawrence (escuse me while I guffaw), who else do you think is missing from what must be a laughable top 10 since this is such a horrible list? Which of the top 6 are a joke and shouldn't be considered for a WHA draft let alone the NHL because this is a horrible list? Pouliot? Ryan? Lashoff? Staal? Parent? O'Marra?

As for your opinion that "Lawrence has top 12 skill set" - I agree - top 12 on the Greyhounds. You obviously don't consider skating to be an essential component of the skill package, I daresay NHL scouts would disagree. His speed is nowhere close to NHL level at this point, and may never be. The only thing Lawrence has in common with Pouliot is his size. As for speed, stickhandling ability, vision, smarts etc., there's little comparison.

I noticed that you called out Sudbury prospects McQuaid, Staal AND Pouliot, but lauded Lawrence. You wouldn't perhaps be a Greyhound fan (Flyers - Carter - SSM - Lawrence), or was it merely a huge coincidence?

Just my opinion.

 

[Form and Substance]

Must have taken some time to assemble this list, Cal O'Reilly is too low IMO, he has incredible vision and playmaking skills and some people here think he might be a late first rounder. Obviously that's a gross exaggeration of the truth but #37 in the OHL? Heshmatpoor at #40 had me rolling off the floor in laughter not so much because of his actual rank but more for the fact that he was beat in a footrace by goalies. Then again, I already knew that.

 

[FearTheFlyers]

What's wrong was your know-it-allish tone. You were asked to explain yourself only after the boorish comment that it was a "pretty horrible list". As was pointed out, scouts that see these players all the time were polled for this list, these guys have some idea of what they're talking about, as obviously did the HF folks that compiled the list.

I disagree with some (not many) of the rankings, but to call it 'horrible' is ignorant and unfounded. If you ask me the list is damn close to what will transpire. There is a decent chance that Pouliot will get picked ahead of Ryan, and there's an even better chance that Staal will be selected in front of O'Marra. Hell; Parent may get picked ahead of O'Marra depending on who is making the pick. Florida is one team that hasn't hidden its admiration for Parent, and he may end up being a top ten pick while O'Marra slips into the teens. Believe it or not, there are some scouts that still have concerns about O'Marra's speed at the next level, although his performance at the under 18s turned a lot of heads. He was not a top 10 consideration before that tournament I don't think.

I'd be damn surprised if Pouliot was not one of the top three OHL players taken, same with Ryan; Staal will be one of the top five OHLers selected, I personally think he'll be the second or third OHLer. HF had Pouliot and Ryan one-two, and Staal third. WTF is "horrible" about that? Do you disagree that Pouliot will be one of the top 3 OHLers taken? Do you disagree that Staal will be one of the top five OHLers taken?

I would hazzard to guess that a "horrible" list would also include plenty of players not listed in the top 10 that you feel should be there. Other than Lawrence (escuse me while I guffaw), who else do you think is missing from what must be a laughable top 10 since this is such a horrible list? Which of the top 6 are a joke and shouldn't be considered for a WHA draft let alone the NHL because this is a horrible list? Pouliot? Ryan? Lashoff? Staal? Parent? O'Marra?

As for your opinion that "Lawrence has top 12 skill set" - I agree - top 12 on the Greyhounds. You obviously don't consider skating to be an essential component of the skill package, I daresay NHL scouts would disagree. His speed is nowhere close to NHL level at this point, and may never be. The only thing Lawrence has in common with Pouliot is his size. As for speed, stickhandling ability, vision, smarts etc., there's little comparison.

I noticed that you called out Sudbury prospects McQuaid, Staal AND Pouliot, but lauded Lawrence. You wouldn't perhaps be a Greyhound fan (Flyers - Carter - SSM - Lawrence), or was it merely a huge coincidence?

Just my opinion.

No, i'm not a greyhound fan at all, in fact most Greyhound fans dislike Lawrence because he is so lazy.

Being honest, the kid might never have the motivation and the desire to become an NHL player. But, his hands and ability alone should see him taken over someone like Parent, who has relatively little upside.

From the OHL this year, there is no number 1 NHL d-man. If you think it's Staal, you are kidding yourself. People bang on Kindl for being poor defensively, Staal is not exactly a whole lot better. I'm not sure where I see Staal fitting in in the NHL, his offense isin't good enough to be a powerplay quarterback but he gets beaten too much defensively to be a true defensive rearguard. Staal is overhyped around here a lot because many people don't have access to OHL games and they only time they have seen him was at the prospects game, where he was pretty much the only d-man not to get abused.

I could see Staal going ahead of O'Marra in the draft definitely, but the reason for this is probably the lack of good defensemen in this years draft. All the mediocre ones, like Parent and Staal who would be taken later in the first round all jump up about ten spots.


Also, it's not the top 10 on this list that is bad, except for Smolenak( ) (and McQuaid) there's no one that flat out doesn't deserve to be there. But it seems to me that after thy top 10 that the rest of the list was just stuck together.
I mean having a guy like Downie 22 spots ahead of O Reilly because he's a goon is a little weird.

 

[Anthony Mauro]

No, i'm not a greyhound fan at all, in fact most Greyhound fans dislike Lawrence because he is so lazy.

Being honest, the kid might never have the motivation and the desire to become an NHL player. But, his hands and ability alone should see him taken over someone like Parent, who has relatively little upside.

From the OHL this year, there is no number 1 NHL d-man. If you think it's Staal, you are kidding yourself. People bang on Kindl for being poor defensively, Staal is not exactly a whole lot better. I'm not sure where I see Staal fitting in in the NHL, his offense isin't good enough to be a powerplay quarterback but he gets beaten too much defensively to be a true defensive rearguard. Staal is overhyped around here a lot because many people don't have access to OHL games and they only time they have seen him was at the prospects game, where he was pretty much the only d-man not to get abused.

I could see Staal going ahead of O'Marra in the draft definitely, but the reason for this is probably the lack of good defensemen in this years draft. All the mediocre ones, like Parent and Staal who would be taken later in the first round all jump up about ten spots.


Also, it's not the top 10 on this list that is bad, except for Smolenak( ) (and McQuaid) there's no one that flat out doesn't deserve to be there. But it seems to me that after thy top 10 that the rest of the list was just stuck together.
I mean having a guy like Downie 22 spots ahead of O Reilly because he's a goon is a little weird.

Wow.

 

[Anthony Mauro]

No, i'm not a greyhound fan at all, in fact most Greyhound fans dislike Lawrence because he is so lazy.

Being honest, the kid might never have the motivation and the desire to become an NHL player. But, his hands and ability alone should see him taken over someone like Parent, who has relatively little upside..

This has got to be the worst hockey prospect comment made in the past year. Lawrence ahead of Parent? Are you freaking out of your mind? Sorry if it sounds like I'm crazy but that statement is one for the ages. You would rather waste a top 15 pick, because it looks as though Parent WILL be a top 15 pick, on a guy who you even admit has no desire. That would be the biggest no-no for a hockey team to commit. We all know Lawrence-types fall like crazy on draft day, but for you to suggest he'd climb and even best Parent is wacked out logic. What hands? Yes, as a human, he has fully functioning hands, but he's gotta pull them out of his ass before he can be considered a threat as a prospect. I can see how someone could not like Parent, but you cant expect Lawrence to go over him. He's as steady as you come, and if he puts together an offensive game watch out for Niedermayer II.

I could see Staal going ahead of O'Marra in the draft definitely, but the reason for this is probably the lack of good defensemen in this years draft. All the mediocre ones, like Parent and Staal who would be taken later in the first round all jump up about ten spots. .

Oh comeon, this year is very solid for defensemen. Johnson, Bourdon, Parent, Staal, Mikkelson, Lee, Vojta, Zubarev, Kindl...that is a great bunch for the first and second round alone. Euro's Hjalmarsson, Anikeeno, Laakso, Korhonen, Buravchikov. Then you have the HS wildcards Niskanen, Yandle, and Chorney. The USHL beast Finley. College Pokulok. CHL's Kohn, Jackson, Gragnani, Wilson, Lashoff. Dont sleep on the dmen this draft.

Also, it's not the top 10 on this list that is bad, except for Smolenak( ) (and McQuaid) there's no one that flat out doesn't deserve to be there. But it seems to me that after thy top 10 that the rest of the list was just stuck together.
I mean having a guy like Downie 22 spots ahead of O Reilly because he's a goon is a little weird.

Putting a heart and soul player with skill at fifteen is not inconceiveable. How is Downie a goon? He put up major stats with no real major help, unless you view Garlock and O'Reilly as help. But they're nowhere near teammates such as Bolland, Schremp, Perry. This guy Downie is a player, more so than O'Reilly.

I dont think you understand what the NHL teams truly value in a hockey player. Lawrence over Parent and O'Reilly over Downie, is just something that would never happen or atleast I think it wont happen anytime soon.

Don't kid yourself, Lawrence is not another Wheeler. Be prepared to see him sit a good amount of rounds I say late 3rd-early 4th.

 

[OHLArenaGuide]

I don't agree with a lot of what GOY says, but I will agree that Lalande should be on the list. After watching him single-handedly beat the Knights in Belleville this year there's no good reason why he shouldn't be on. I bet he was #41.