HF Retro Game of the Year - 1998 - Ocarina of Time

[Frankie Blueberries]

Reminder that the best game of last year was directly influenced by OoT.

Starting to feel like StarCraft falls into the "baby's first X" category like Halo or FF7, where people think a good thing was revolutionary because they just didn't know any better at the time. It was a great game and it's cool that people enjoyed it, but to believe that it had any positive long-term influence is crazy.

Nothing like making a persuasive argument by patronizing people. That'll really convince them! Halo was revolutionary for console FPS too, so your opinion is misguided at the very least.

 

[NyQuil]

Reminder that the best game of last year was directly influenced by OoT.

Starting to feel like StarCraft falls into the "baby's first X" category like Halo or FF7, where people think a good thing was revolutionary because they just didn't know any better at the time. It was a great game and it's cool that people enjoyed it, but to believe that it had any positive long-term influence is crazy.

Your opinion sucks because you don't know anything.

Am I doing this right?

I've been playing games longer than you so therefore anything you think is revolutionary is actually derivative of what I already played.

Atari and Intellivision FTW.

OoT is really based on this classic:



Everything is just downhill from there.

 

[syz]

Nothing like making a persuasive argument by patronizing people. That'll really convince them! Halo was revolutionary for console FPS too, so your opinion is misguided at the very least.

Halo at least had a much more tangible and direct influence on gaming long-term compared to SC. It was a bad influence, but at least it was actually there in this case. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

Halo at least had a much more tangible and direct influence on gaming long-term compared to SC. It was a bad influence, but at least it was actually there in this case. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Halo you can make a case for having both a good and bad influence.

Good - control scheme that actually worked on a console; clever enemy AI in campaign; great map design (Hang Em' High, Blood Gulch, etc.); complete package in a good single player/co-op/multiplayer; popularized LAN parties for consoles; etc.

It helped pave the way for all the good FPS on console before the CoD era of mediocrity began.

 

[NyQuil]

It’s not CoDs fault as much as it is the evolution of the monetization of gaming.

 

[Jasper]

Reminder that the best game of last year was directly influenced by OoT.

Starting to feel like StarCraft falls into the "baby's first X" category like Halo or FF7, where people think a good thing was revolutionary because they just didn't know any better at the time. It was a great game and it's cool that people enjoyed it, but to believe that it had any positive long-term influence is crazy.

I picked Starcraft because it's the game I enjoyed most on the list overall. It's neither my first nor my favourite RTS. Get over yourself.

 

[syz]

I picked Starcraft because it's the game I enjoyed most on the list overall. It's neither my first nor my favourite RTS. Get over yourself.

Good for you. A perfectly reasonable opinion. This has nothing to do with what I said, though?

I totally get SC being somebody's favorite game of the year. I don't get why anybody would think it's revolutionary or influential, and nobody seems to be able to articulate why they think it was beyond "but esports!" even though that had nothing to do with the game itself and everything to do with basic economics/capitalism.

It got popular enough for one country to take an established business model and put an "e" on the front of it. Other games would eventually do the same thing elsewhere in the world, but not because SC "laid out the model," or whatever; the model always existed, it was simply a matter of something getting popular enough within a market (which StarCraft did not, outside of Korea.)

 

[Osprey]

Good for you. A perfectly reasonable opinion. This has nothing to do with what I said, though?

I totally get SC being somebody's favorite game of the year. I don't get why anybody would think it's revolutionary or influential, and nobody seems to be able to articulate why they think it was beyond "but esports!" even though that had nothing to do with the game itself and everything to do with basic economics/capitalism.

It got popular enough for one country to take an established business model and put an "e" on the front of it. Other games would eventually do the same thing elsewhere in the world, but not because SC "laid out the model," or whatever; the model always existed, it was simply a matter of something getting popular enough within a market (which StarCraft did not, outside of Korea.)

You appear to be very critical and judgmental of others' opinions, but you've consistently avoided making any specific argument for why OOT was revolutionary or influential. I even pressed you to a week ago and you ignored me. It seems to me like you're afraid to make a case for OOT because you don't want others to attack it like you're attacking their arguments. You want to keep the debate on the offensive.

I'll repeat what I said before: if you're going to criticize and judge others' arguments and opinions, have the courage and fairness to offer up your own argument for critique. If it's really as strong as you think that it is, then you have nothing to worry about. You might even convince a few people that you're right. You're not going to convince anyone, though, by only attacking arguments and not making any counter argument.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

it originally was going to be exactly that

Hahahaha

I remember seeing that screenshot in magazines back in the day!

Blast from the past

 

[PK Cronin]

Good for you. A perfectly reasonable opinion. This has nothing to do with what I said, though?

I totally get SC being somebody's favorite game of the year. I don't get why anybody would think it's revolutionary or influential, and nobody seems to be able to articulate why they think it was beyond "but esports!" even though that had nothing to do with the game itself and everything to do with basic economics/capitalism.

It got popular enough for one country to take an established business model and put an "e" on the front of it. Other games would eventually do the same thing elsewhere in the world, but not because SC "laid out the model," or whatever; the model always existed, it was simply a matter of something getting popular enough within a market (which StarCraft did not, outside of Korea.)

You were provided other examples and have ignored them.

 

[syz]

You appear to be very critical and judgmental of others' opinions, but you've consistently avoided making any specific argument for why OOT was revolutionary or influential. I even pressed you to a week ago and you ignored me. It seems to me like you're afraid to make a case for OOT because you don't want others to attack it like you're attacking their arguments. You want to keep the debate on the offensive.

I'll repeat what I said before: if you're going to criticize and judge others' arguments and opinions, have the courage and fairness to offer up your own argument for critique. If it's really as strong as you think that it is, then you have nothing to worry about. You might even convince a few people that you're right. You're not going to convince anyone, though, by only attacking arguments and not making any counter argument.

Houser (GTA), Taro (Nier), and Miyazaki (Dark Souls) all credit OoT as the texbook for 3D games and have admitted that if you're making a 3D game you're probably copying from it in some way. Those are just 3 off the top of my head. We're talking about some of the best, most important modern game developers out there admitting that they were influenced by Ocarina. Again, in terms of influence/legacy, it's on a post-crash shortlist with things like Doom, Street Fighter 2, Gears of War/Resident Evil 4(?), and Super Mario. Actually, those might even be the top 5'ish outside of mobile trends, which hold major influence for better or worse these days.

You were provided other examples and have ignored them.

90% of the arguments in this thread for SCs influence have to do with its popularity in Korea and the belief that it's the reason we have esports now--which, again, has more to do with Korea than with StarCraft, and is something that I've already discussed.

What has been presented other than that? That it "spawned the MOBA"? Also seems like a questionable claim that I would probably attribute more to WC3, given that it introduced hero units, creeps, and the engine DOTA spawned from. That the game was "well balanced" or "the best RTS" ever? Things I've already conceded; it was a great game. That doesn't make it influential or revolutionary, though.

Any direct mechanical lineage in SCs design is hard to find in anything these days (largely due to the general absence of its genre--something one might think would not be the case if the game were as influential as some people seem to suggest), which is the polar opposite of what's true for Ocarina, a game that was (as I've already pointed out) cited as a direct influence for a top game of last year.

 

[MetalheadPenguinsFan]

Onto 1997 we go??

 

[Chris Pronger]

Holy crap 1997 is stacked.

Goldeneye
Fallout
Age of empire
Crash Bandicoot
FF 7
Star fox 64
Mario Kart 64

 

[Osprey]

I'm going to have to choose between Fallout and Age of Empires? Noooooooo!

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Holy crap 1997 is stacked.

Goldeneye
Fallout
Age of empire
Crash Bandicoot
FF 7
Star fox 64
Mario Kart 64

Today's kids don't know how amazing the late 90's were in terms of gaming.

I am not kidding when I say I feel blessed to have been around for it.

 

[Bocephus86]

Today's kids don't know how amazing the late 90's were in terms of gaming.

I am not kidding when I say I feel blessed to have been around for it.

I think it was around '94 that I was capable of playing every game that came out; it really was a run there for a while, especially for those with PCs & console since there wasn't much cross system play. To this day, I think Tie Fighter is my favorite game. I'm too worried the nostalgia will run out to try to go back & play it again though.

 

[NyQuil]

I think it was around '94 that I was capable of playing every game that came out; it really was a run there for a while, especially for those with PCs & console since there wasn't much cross system play. To this day, I think Tie Fighter is my favorite game. I'm too worried the nostalgia will run out to try to go back & play it again though.

I played it years later.

Holds up well.

I just don’t have my Flightstick anymore.

 

[Bocephus86]

I played it years later.

Holds up well.

I just don’t have my Flightstick anymore.

I found a joystick on newegg for 60 bucks & that has decent reviews. I've put it in my cart twice, but not pulled the trigger as I'd only use it to give Tie Fighter a shot & I figure that is a little crazy.

Third times a charm I hope.

 

[NyQuil]

I found a joystick on newegg for 60 bucks & that has decent reviews. I've put it in my cart twice, but not pulled the trigger as I'd only use it to give Tie Fighter a shot & I figure that is a little crazy.

Third times a charm I hope.

I have so many fond memories of space games played with the joystick (Wing Commander series, X-Wing, Tie-Fighter) but they kind of went out of fashion with Freelancer (which was mouse/keyboard) onwards.

Freespace 2 I think was the last game I played with a joystick, and that was 1999.

 

[Teemu]

Holy crap 1997 is stacked.

Goldeneye
Fallout
Age of empire
Crash Bandicoot
FF 7
Star fox 64
Mario Kart 64

WCW vs. NWO World Tour

 

[NyQuil]

I'm not sure how the dates are worked out but here are some others:

Curse of Monkey Island
Star Wars Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II
Ultima Online
Dungeon Keeper
Quake II

 

[MetalheadPenguinsFan]

Postal

 

[WarriorOfGandhi]

Today's kids don't know how amazing the late 90's were in terms of gaming.

I am not kidding when I say I feel blessed to have been around for it.

me too man

there hasn't been a single game released in the past decade that I enjoy as much as MarioKart 64 or Civilization II or the X-wing games

it really was a great time to be alive

 

[Osprey]

I have so many fond memories of space games played with the joystick (Wing Commander series, X-Wing, Tie-Fighter) but they kind of went out of fashion with Freelancer (which was mouse/keyboard) onwards.

Freespace 2 I think was the last game I played with a joystick, and that was 1999.

I didn't even own a joystick in the early 90s, so I played the first two Wing Commanders and X-Wing/TIE Fighters with mouse and keyboard. I think that I finally bought a joystick for Wing Commander III.

I'm not sure how the dates are worked out but here are some others:

Curse of Monkey Island
Star Wars Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II
Ultima Online
Dungeon Keeper
Quake II

Stop making my choice harder! Now, I have to choose between Fallout, Age of Empires and Jedi Knight. 1997 might just be the pinnacle year of gaming for me.

 

[syz]

Symphony of the Night.