HF Retro Game of the Year - 1997 - GoldenEye 007 Wins!

[Shareefruck]

I'm sure this has already been beaten to death, but I've always hated the way that the term, Metroidvania is used. Every characteristic of Metroidvanias are already fully encompassed by the Metroid series alone, and nothing is added by the Castlevania side of that equation. In fact, the only Castlevania game that fits the description is Symphony of the Night, which is the lone exception in the series that happens to borrow elements from Super Metroid (in fact, I think that's what the term was originally coined to describe-- literally Castlevania games that played like Metroid).

Only the "Metroid" part of "Metroidvania" is necessary or makes any sense when describing other games that are similar.

 

[RandV]

It's not about taste. FFVII is by far the biggest and most influential game of that year. It literally revolutionized and made the JRPG genre popular in the western countries.

Like I said earlier in the thread, FFVII struck lightning for a few million people who'd never played a JRPG and got taken in by the advertising campaign, creating a very loud and rabid fan base. But apart from those people there are just as many on either side that got into JRPG's before FFVII or got into them after, to whom FFVII didn't have the same impact.

Like if you make a poll on people's favourite FF game you're probably going to get a pretty decent split between VI, VII, and IX, with IV, X, and XII getting some votes. But you'd find the people voting for VII are far more rabid in their devotion to it than the rest.

 

[RandV]

that's ironic since you technically didn't play as Donkey Kong in SMK

And you sir are now dead to me

But I'm gonna justify myself by pulling a random game theory out of my ass.

This is a classic arcade screen shot that shows Mario, "Donkey Kong", and the "Donkey Kong Jr" who showed up in SMK:

Classic Donkey Kong is a lot bigger than the Donkey Kong Jungle Donkey Kong that appears in MK64 and all other later games. Classic Donkey Kong Jr on the other hand obviously isn't Diddy Kong and hasn't seemed to have appeared in a game since. Therefore, one can only assume that Classic Donkey Kong Jr is the current Donkey Kong, who simply grew up and traded his shirt in for a tie.

So there, now I've always been playing Mario Kart as Donkey Kong.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

How much of that is just the "standard" being what you've recently gotten used to and what's easier, rather than actually being better, though? I feel that it makes the game more challenging and manual. I've always disliked how the power-slide allowed you to take sharp turns relatively easily and be rewarded for it, rather than dreading them.

Btw, is the letting off the gas thing even proven to be a better method in SMK? I used to do that as a kid, but playing it again with the SNES classic, I've switched to the strategy of taking turns early and aggressively sliding into them (only occasionally tapping on and off slightly the moment before spin-out), and it feels like a better method to me.

Personally, I feel that the Mario Kart series has grown really stale and has barely moved in a meaningful way since the original as well, other than 3D tracks being easier on the eyes than Mode 7 and allowing four players. Other than that, the music hasn't gotten better, and other enhancements haven't added much to the experience, IMO.

Edit: Yeah, like this. You're not supposed to step off the gas on turns. That's just the easy, slow, risk-free way of handling it.


Like with most things, the SNES version is definitely less accessible, more minimalistic (which I prefer) and more unforgiving, but I think it's debatable if that makes it worse than the others.

While I dislike almost everything about the N64, I actually feel that Mario Kart 64 is one of the least impressive, innovative, and admirable of the big Nintendo sequels (like Super Mario 64, Starfox 64, or Ocarina of Time).

I find 64 drifting more fluid. You still get burnt in the sense that you can over-turn or spin out, so it's not like the game holds your hand too much. I also like that you can maneuver other 3D characters and objects, like the penguins in Sherbet Land.

I grew up with Super Mario Kart, but I like the drift in 64 more just because it's intuitive but still very difficult to master and nail every race. There are times in SMK where 0.10 seconds means you're at a wall. It can be overly difficult, and while I appreciate the difficult can be fun school, I don't think it makes much sense for Mario Kart. 64 mainly sticks out because of the races though, almost all of them are very enjoyable and memorable, whereas SMK has some snoozers. Battle is also better in 64, that bomb mode if you die early was pretty genius at the time.

If a preference for difficulty arises out of the purity of the game and whatnot, then the elastic mechanisms of Mario Kart go against that harder than the drifting changes do.

 

[RandV]

How much of that is just the "standard" being what you've recently gotten used to and what's easier, rather than actually being better, though? I feel that it makes the game more challenging and manual. I've always disliked how the power-slide allowed you to take sharp turns relatively easily and be rewarded for it, rather than dreading them.

Btw, is the letting off the gas thing even proven to be a better method in SMK? I used to do that as a kid, but playing it again with the SNES classic, I've switched to the strategy of taking turns early and aggressively sliding into them (only occasionally tapping on and off slightly the moment before spin-out), and it feels like a better method to me.

Personally, I feel that the Mario Kart series has grown really stale and has barely moved in a meaningful way since the original as well, other than 3D tracks being easier on the eyes than Mode 7 and allowing four players. Other than that, the music hasn't gotten better, and other enhancements haven't added much to the experience, IMO.

Edit: Yeah, like this. You're not supposed to step off the gas on turns. That's just the easy, slow, risk-free way of handling it.


Like with most things, the SNES version is definitely less accessible, more minimalistic (which I prefer) and more unforgiving, but I think it's debatable if that makes it worse than the others.

While I dislike almost everything about the N64, I actually feel that Mario Kart 64 is one of the least impressive, innovative, and admirable of the big Nintendo sequels (like Super Mario 64, Starfox 64, or Ocarina of Time).

Wow yeah, that puts me to shame

I wouldn't say letting off the gas was easy mode though, rather playing that way with DK is advanced mode and what you see in the video is pure expert. Keep in mind that most of us playing it would have been kids/teens back then, there was no internet FAQs or youtube video's, and it was the first Mario Kart so power sliding had no influence.

To pull off sliding into the curves through the entire game would likely require numerous time trial runs on every track. Some corners will be obvious you can slide into it, but many will require a high degree of precision. The game really wasn't intended to be played like that, considering on 150cc how far ahead he blows past Toad in just the first lap.

 

[Syckle78]

With the possible exception of Half-Life (also overlooked I see), FF7 is probably the most important and influential game of the 90's. These results are strange.

Goldeneye, a shooter with abysmal controls and no draw distance which takes any precision or skill out of the game?

MK64, still years away from the fine tuning required to make the Mario Kart franchise actually fun?

FF7 was a pioneer in FMV and CGI. It had an insane $40 million marketing budget and the commercials made it seem like an action movie. It tricked people like me into trying it and falling in love with this new form of intelligent gamplay, cinematic storytelling and Japanese eccentricities. 21 years later and I still vastly prefer Japanese made games over Western ones, it all started with FF7. I know that's not an uncommon story either.

Squaresoft leaving Nintendo and developing Final Fantasy for the Playstation was the biggest coup in that generation of console wars. It kicked off a golden age of RPG's on the Playstation and established Sony as the home for interesting Japanese developers, a distinction they still hold 20 years later. FF7 has the most famous plot twist in gaming history. The game is so iconic that the remake announcement is still the biggest moment in E3 history.

If you're having a sleepover at 10 years old, yeah I guess Goldeneye is better. But FF7 was the game of the year and arguably the game of the 90's.

Preach.

 

[filip85]

Intestate 76 should have been on voting list, if I remember correctly it lost "action game of the year" award to Quake 2.

 

[NyQuil]

To pull off sliding into the curves through the entire game would likely require numerous time trial runs on every track. Some corners will be obvious you can slide into it, but many will require a high degree of precision. The game really wasn't intended to be played like that, considering on 150cc how far ahead he blows past Toad in just the first lap.

In university we literally played Luigi Raceway over and over again for hours and hours so the slides came naturally after awhile.

It's obviously one of the easier tracks in terms of corners.

 

[Commander Clueless]

It's not about taste. FFVII is by far the biggest and most influential game of that year. It literally revolutionized and made the JRPG genre popular in the western countries.

It always strikes me as strange when you see the words "most influential" and "revolutionize" in an argument against someone's game of the year choice. Heck, it strikes me as strange that anyone would argue against someone else's game of the year choice.

Why the heck would I care about what influenced other people the most, what other people enjoyed the most, or what I think impacted the industry the most when picking my favourite game of that year?

 

[NyQuil]

It always strikes me as strange when you see the words "most influential" and "revolutionize" in an argument against someone's game of the year choice. Heck, it strikes me as strange that anyone would argue against someone else's game of the year choice.

Why the heck would I care about what influenced other people the most, what other people enjoyed the most, or what I think impacted the industry the most when picking my favourite game of that year?

Shockingly, people have DIFFERENT OPINIONS!

 

[The Macho King]

Went with Symphony of the Night. Some other REALLY good games on that 1st. Metroidvania's are one of my favorite kinds of games. Had to go with the game that started that genre.

Fallout 1 is also a great game and I think it's way better than 2.

So... I guess you're going to vote for Metroid then when that poll comes up? Castlevania didn't add anything to the formula - just changed the setting.

My vote went to Fallout, but I'm a nerdy PC gamer. I've always thought the veneration of FFVII was odd though. It didn't really revolutionize JRPGs - it had pretty much all of the same tropes as previous FFs.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

I can respect that. They're probably my two favorites, and I think they're both pretty close to flawless, but IV in a more minimalistic way, where it just "feels" right. The only thing I dislike about IV is the cop-out at the end

Spoiler

with all of the sacrifices.

The opening credits cinematic in VI gets me every time and is one of my favorite things.

Yeah death is cheap in the FF-verse, that's for sure. I actually don't think many of the deaths in the FF games are all that impactful.

...Except

Spoiler

Galuf

. He went out like a f***ing King.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Wow FF just got a bunch of votes, we have quite the 3 way race!

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

It's not about taste. FFVII is by far the biggest and most influential game of that year. It literally revolutionized and made the JRPG genre popular in the western countries.

and without the success of Goldeneye, you dont have the FPS revolution. No Halo, COD, Battlefield, etc.

It was Goldeneye that first showed what a multiplayer FPS can be

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

And you sir are now dead to me

But I'm gonna justify myself by pulling a random game theory out of my ass.

This is a classic arcade screen shot that shows Mario, "Donkey Kong", and the "Donkey Kong Jr" who showed up in SMK:

Classic Donkey Kong is a lot bigger than the Donkey Kong Jungle Donkey Kong that appears in MK64 and all other later games. Classic Donkey Kong Jr on the other hand obviously isn't Diddy Kong and hasn't seemed to have appeared in a game since. Therefore, one can only assume that Classic Donkey Kong Jr is the current Donkey Kong, who simply grew up and traded his shirt in for a tie.

So there, now I've always been playing Mario Kart as Donkey Kong.

Lol, I can appreciate that theory.
Donkey Kong JR was my go-to for Mario Tennis on the 64. The guy had a good combination of power and wasn't too slow.

 

[Shareefruck]

Wow yeah, that puts me to shame

I wouldn't say letting off the gas was easy mode though, rather playing that way with DK is advanced mode and what you see in the video is pure expert. Keep in mind that most of us playing it would have been kids/teens back then, there was no internet FAQs or youtube video's, and it was the first Mario Kart so power sliding had no influence.

To pull off sliding into the curves through the entire game would likely require numerous time trial runs on every track. Some corners will be obvious you can slide into it, but many will require a high degree of precision. The game really wasn't intended to be played like that, considering on 150cc how far ahead he blows past Toad in just the first lap.

For what it's worth, I'm no expert and I use the slide method rather than the let up method too (I just use the beginners characters rather than DK/Bowser, though), although obviously not nearly to the same degree of success. You're not forced into playing a less aggressive style in order to be successful at the game, is all I'm saying (and playing Bowser/DK should be harder to do properly). I don't think letting up is easy mode, but it's a risk vs. reward thing rather than a design flaw that makes the game restrictive.

I find 64 drifting more fluid. You still get burnt in the sense that you can over-turn or spin out, so it's not like the game holds your hand too much. I also like that you can maneuver other 3D characters and objects, like the penguins in Sherbet Land.

I grew up with Super Mario Kart, but I like the drift in 64 more just because it's intuitive but still very difficult to master and nail every race. There are times in SMK where 0.10 seconds means you're at a wall. It can be overly difficult, and while I appreciate the difficult can be fun school, I don't think it makes much sense for Mario Kart. 64 mainly sticks out because of the races though, almost all of them are very enjoyable and memorable, whereas SMK has some snoozers. Battle is also better in 64, that bomb mode if you die early was pretty genius at the time.

If a preference for difficulty arises out of the purity of the game and whatnot, then the elastic mechanisms of Mario Kart go against that harder than the drifting changes do.

I don't really follow that last part, but YMMV, I guess.

 

[Shareefruck]

Wow FF just got a bunch of votes, we have quite the 3 way race!

In a re-vote of those three games, I would probably pick FF as well. Despite its flaws and imperfections, even nostalgia aside, I definitely think it's a more lastingly innovative, impressive, and inspired work than Mario Kart 64 or Goldeneye, which mostly just feel like timely party games to me. I mean, the music alone is just..... man.

Yeah death is cheap in the FF-verse, that's for sure. I actually don't think many of the deaths in the FF games are all that impactful.

...Except

Spoiler

Galuf

. He went out like a ****ing King.

VI is an exception that's pretty good at it, I find. Especially the one at the half-way point, if you choose to go that way.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

I don't really follow that last part, but YMMV, I guess.

Just that Mario Kart has always been notorious for ridiculous parity (constantly getting lightning and star power when you're in last place). The elastic band part was just how last place and first place are usually never that far apart, unless there's a huge gap in skill.

 

[Shareefruck]

Just that Mario Kart has always been notorious for ridiculous parity (constantly getting lightning and star power when you're in last place). The elastic band part was just how last place and first place are usually never that far apart, unless there's a huge gap in skill.

Oh, okay. And you're saying that that contradicts a preference for more demanding handling?

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

Oh, okay. And you're saying that that contradicts a preference for more demanding handling?

Not so much the preference, but rather the impact that it has on the game. The difference in difficulty in drifting from SMK to MK64 has a much smaller impact on the parity of the game than the elastic band gameplay mechanics. I blame the blue shell.

 

[Shareefruck]

Not so much the preference, but rather the impact that it has on the game. The difference in difficulty in drifting from SMK to MK64 has a much smaller impact on the parity of the game than the elastic band gameplay mechanics. I blame the blue shell.

Oh sure. Although, the parity in the elasticity doesn't really bother me and I don't think about it too much (more of an afterthought), whereas the drift mechanics immediately affect how I interact with the game and how satisfying/rewarding that feels to me.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

In a re-vote of those three games, I would probably pick FF as well. Despite its flaws and imperfections, even nostalgia aside, I definitely think it's a more lastingly innovative, impressive, and inspired work than Mario Kart 64 or Goldeneye, which mostly just feel like timely party games to me. I mean, the music alone is just..... man.
VI is an exception that's pretty good at it, I find. Especially the one at the half-way point, if you choose to go that way.

VI definitely feels like an opera for the entire game. They really nailed the feel of that game.

On a completely separate note, Earthbound is the best RPG and my favourite game of all-time.

 

[dr robbie]

I'm sure this has already been beaten to death, but I've always hated the way that the term, Metroidvania is used. Every characteristic of Metroidvanias are already fully encompassed by the Metroid series alone, and nothing is added by the Castlevania side of that equation. In fact, the only Castlevania game that fits the description is Symphony of the Night, which is the lone exception in the series that happens to borrow elements from Super Metroid (in fact, I think that's what the term was originally coined to describe-- literally Castlevania games that played like Metroid).

Only the "Metroid" part of "Metroidvania" is necessary or makes any sense when describing other games that are similar.

The second Castlevania on the NES (Simon's quest) was very similar in style to Metroid and they were released within a year of each other and included very similar style in play, which is what I do believe coined the term (basically side-scrollers with large maps that you had to explore and progress by obtaining new items/powers). I do agree that Metroid is the bigger emphasis in the genre as it held true to that gamestyle for the most part, but they at least had equal stakes early on.

 

[Shareefruck]

VI definitely feels like an opera for the entire game. They really nailed the feel of that game.

On a completely separate note, Earthbound is the best RPG and my favourite game of all-time.

I'm right there with you (although it's my #2 all time to Super Metroid). It's far from the most mechanically interesting, but it's probably the only one I've played where the writing itself feels legitimately brilliant to me, even compared to other mediums. It's packed with lines that really stick with you.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

I'm right there with you (although it's my #2 all time to Super Metroid). It's far from the most mechanically interesting, but it's probably the only one I've played where the writing itself feels legitimately brilliant to me, even compared to other mediums. It's packed with lines that really stick with you.

Will definitely vote for it when 1995 comes around, assuming it's in the poll.

I wish I could've played it when it came out (no SNES, I remember seeing the box in VG rental stores before) instead of after SSB hit the shores.

I try to play it once a year. Yeah it's nothing mind-blowing gameplay wise but the writing is some of the best in any RPG.