HF ranks teams by their Top 6 forwards - #2

[Snippit]

Jets for sure.

Scheifele/Little = Matthews/Kadri

Ehlers/Laine >= Marner/Nylander

Wheeler/Perreault >> JvR/Marleau

Wheeler makes the big difference

 

[McGuires Corndog]

Jets for sure.

Scheifele/Little = Matthews/Kadri

Ehlers/Laine >= Marner/Nylander

Wheeler/Perreault >> JvR/Marleau

Wheeler makes the big difference

This.

It shouldn't be as close as it is, IMO.

 

[Empoleon8771]

So you're picking them because they have wildcards that could possibly maybe be as good as Perreault/Little and Wheeler?

Well Laine, Schiefele and Ehlers aren't as good as Benn, Seguin and Radulov, so Hanzal and Janmark don't have to be as good as Perreault/Little and Wheeler for the Stars to have a better top-6 than the Jets.

you just completely blew up his argument

i still remember the poll about how many goals kessel will get in pitts.
the winning choice was 40+. he hasnt even gotten back to 30

What? No he didn't, posting one player who didn't see an increase in production from going to a better center doesn't mean that players don't regularly see increases in production when going to a better center. I posted James Neal as a counterargument, why does that not disprove his point?

 

[heretik27]

Well Laine, Schiefele and Ehlers aren't as good as Benn, Seguin and Radulov, so Hanzal and Janmark don't have to be as good as Perreault/Little and Wheeler for the Stars to have a better top-6 than the Jets.



What? No he didn't, posting one player who didn't see an increase in production from going to a better center doesn't mean that players don't regularly see increases in production when going to a better center. I posted James Neal as a counterargument, why does that not disprove his point?

Benn and Seguin > Scheifele+Wheeler, but the rest of Dallas top 6 isn't better than the Jets.
Radulov hasn't proven he's any better than Ehlers/Laine. Two players much younger with better production than him as rookies/sophomore's and both outperform Spezza.
Hanzal and Janmark? Little and Perreault easily here. I think Hanzal might be one of the few guys in the league that misses more games than Perreault in the average season.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Benn and Seguin > Scheifele+Wheeler, but the rest of Dallas top 6 isn't better than the Jets.
Radulov hasn't proven he's any better than Ehlers/Laine. Two players much younger with better production than him as rookies/sophomore's and both outperform Spezza.
Hanzal and Janmark? Little and Perreault easily here. I think Hanzal might be one of the few guys in the league that misses more games than Perreault in the average season.

A. I think Radulov and Ehlers are around the same, I don't think there's a huge difference between the two. Yeah, Ehlers produced more last year, but he also played a lot with Scheifele and Wheeler a lot. Like I said before, Daneault was Radulov's center all year and he still managed a 58 point pace.
B. In Spezza's last 4 seasons, he has a 72 point pace, a 62 point pace, a 69 point pace and a 60 point pace. He's an incredibly likely bet to have 60-70 points in a year. I don't think there's a big difference right now between Spezza and Radulov vs Laine and Ehlers. In like a year or two, I think the Jets duo will overtake them, but I think they're very close as of right now.
C. Little and Perreault are better than Janmark and Hanzal, but I don't think they're more better than Benn and Seguin are better than Scheifele and Wheeler. It's incredibly close between the Jets and Stars though IMO, it's not like there's a huge divide here.

 

[heretik27]

A. I think Radulov and Ehlers are around the same, I don't think there's a huge difference between the two. Yeah, Ehlers produced more last year, but he also played a lot with Scheifele and Wheeler a lot. Like I said before, Daneault was Radulov's center all year and he still managed a 58 point pace.
B. In Spezza's last 4 seasons, he has a 72 point pace, a 62 point pace, a 69 point pace and a 60 point pace. He's an incredibly likely bet to have 60-70 points in a year. I don't think there's a big difference right now between Spezza and Radulov vs Laine and Ehlers. In like a year or two, I think the Jets duo will overtake them, but I think they're very close as of right now.
C. Little and Perreault are better than Janmark and Hanzal, but I don't think they're more better than Benn and Seguin are better than Scheifele and Wheeler. It's incredibly close between the Jets and Stars though IMO, it's not like there's a huge divide here.

When Scheifele centered Wheeler and Ehlers when Bryan Little went down he led the league in points over a 26 game stretch to end the 2015-16 season. That's him centering a rookie and a top winger in the league. Since that injury, with Bryan Little missing over 45 games Scheifele has played incredible. The difference is smaller than you think. This is where the Jets duo of Wheeler and Scheifele stand since Little's injury.

 

[MardyBum]

Well Laine, Schiefele and Ehlers aren't as good as Benn, Seguin and Radulov, so Hanzal and Janmark don't have to be as good as Perreault/Little and Wheeler for the Stars to have a better top-6 than the Jets.



What? No he didn't, posting one player who didn't see an increase in production from going to a better center doesn't mean that players don't regularly see increases in production when going to a better center. I posted James Neal as a counterargument, why does that not disprove his point?

Top line production in most recent season :

Benn/Seguin/Radulov : 195 points in 235 games

Ehlers/Scheifele/Laine : 210 points in 234 games

Second line production in most recent season :

Janmark/Spezza/Hanzal : 118 points in 212 games

Perreault/Little/Wheeler : 166 points in 206 games

So what's your argument? And if it's defensive play you should have backed Boston, not Dallas.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Is this for actual top six lines, or just the best six forwards on a roster? Because a lot of the options seem to be listing the best six forwards, but not necessarily what the actual top two lines for those teams are.

 

[shelf]

you just completely blew up his argument

i still remember the poll about how many goals kessel will get in pitts.
the winning choice was 40+. he hasnt even gotten back to 30

He did lead the Pens in assists though. Beat out Crosby, Malkin, and Letang

 

[PG Canuck]

Jets.

 

[Maukkis]

The Jets' top 6 scored at a combined rate of .854 PPG last year. The Leafs' guys (and Marleau) had a combined .740. It should not be this close of a comparision between these two groups. For reference, the Penguins' group had an astonishing .925.

Also, FOUR of last year's top 15 ES producers come from Winnipeg: Scheifele at 4, Ehlers at 8, Wheeler at 11, and Laine at 15. Matthews, the first Leaf on the list, is at 22. Winnipeg's group produced 73.9% of their points at ES. As for Toronto, they only reached a percentage of 65.8. That's a significant difference in the Jet's favour.

 

[4thline]

Not gonna get bent out of shape arguing for the Leafs here, because our top 6, while good to great, is not the differentiator that makes our offence hum, nor is it the best.

That would be having the personnel to run a three line attack where forwards 7-8-9 put up

18/55
20/36
14/32

 

[BHD]

As obsessed as I am with the Leafs' younger players, the Jets get the vote.

 

[Paris in Flames]

Is this for actual top six lines, or just the best six forwards on a roster? Because a lot of the options seem to be listing the best six forwards, but not necessarily what the actual top two lines for those teams are.

Seems to me it's top 6 players and not necessarily top 2 lines.

Kadri, for example, wasn't really in the Leafs top 6 last year and likely won't be again. Bozak just works better with Marner/JVR it seems but not many are going to say Bozak is better than Kadri.

 

[Haatley]

How is this not Dallas or Tampa!?

 

[Advanced stats]

How is this not Dallas or Tampa!?

Cause Dallas is a one line team and Tampa has weak spots as well.

Leafs and Winnipeg are both much better.

 

[Advanced stats]

Seems to me it's top 6 players and not necessarily top 2 lines.

Kadri, for example, wasn't really in the Leafs top 6 last year and likely won't be again. Bozak just works better with Marner/JVR it seems but not many are going to say Bozak is better than Kadri.

Although Kadri did get more 5v5 ice time and all situations ice time, and played harder matchups so it's up to you to determine what line is what.

 

[Garthinater]

Jets top 6 combined for 376 points compared to leafs who scored 360. Both have insanely good top 6's so could go either way.

Edit: kinda funny the 2nd or 3rd best top 6 couldn't even make the playoffs (jets).

 

[Mcnotloilersfan]

how is edmonton getting votes lol?

Mcdavid is the 2nd best in the world. Draisaitl is one of the top young players in the league. but then you have Lucic 50pts, RNH 43 pts, Maroon 42 pts (riding shotgun to connor) and Puljujarvi (did nothing in the NHL)

only 3 of those guys are even top 6 players, 4 if you think RNH can bounce back

Yeah... those are top 6 numbers champ, even with them underachieving.

Edmonton is easily #2 here. Any team left on this list would gladly trade their top 6 for Edmontons. Assuming Pulju finds his game this year, it wont even be close.

 

[MardyBum]

Jets top 6 combined for 376 points compared to leafs who scored 360. Both have insanely good top 6's so could go either way.

Edit: kinda funny the 2nd or 3rd best top 6 couldn't even make the playoffs (jets).

This is probably the twentieth time a poster has made that "funny joke" this offseason

None of them play goalie

 

[MardyBum]

Yeah... those are top 6 numbers champ, even with them underachieving.

Edmonton is easily #2 here. Any team left on this list would gladly trade their top 6 for Edmontons. Assuming Pulju finds his game this year, it wont even be close.

There is no chance in hell Toronto or Winnipeg trade their top 6 for Edmontons. Pulju needs to be a hell of a lot more proven and the Lucic contract is hot garbage.

I'll trade our goaltending for yours though .

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

There is no chance in hell Toronto or Winnipeg trade their top 6 for Edmontons. Pulju needs to be a hell of a lot more proven and the Lucic contract is hot garbage.

I'll trade our goaltending for yours though .

Yeah Edmonton has the best player here but also some of the worst. Winnipeg has the advantage right now because of Wheeler but I think down the line toronto has a fair chance to pass them due to their youth. Edmonton will be just below them because they are missing that 3rd guy

 

[Mcnotloilersfan]

There is no chance in hell Toronto or Winnipeg trade their top 6 for Edmontons. Pulju needs to be a hell of a lot more proven and the Lucic contract is hot garbage.

I'll trade our goaltending for yours though .

Lucic contract might be bad when he slows down in the future.. Right now, he puts up top 6 numbers consistently while doing what no other top 6 player in the league can do. He's worth every penny right now.

 

[Advanced stats]

Yeah... those are top 6 numbers champ, even with them underachieving.

Edmonton is easily #2 here. Any team left on this list would gladly trade their top 6 for Edmontons. Assuming Pulju finds his game this year, it wont even be close.

Toronto and Winnipeg would never. And I mean never trade top 6's with Edmonton.

 

[Kamiccolo]

Can someone explain to me how the Jets have the 2nd best top 6 in the NHL, 3 #1 D, and the top prospect pool before last season and STILL haven't won a playoff game, nevermind even getting there anytime recently?