HF Player ratings that you think are just very wrong.

[Jason MacIsaac]

See, this is why I stopped listening to what you had to say a year ago.

If it makes you feel better I never listened to what you have to say not considered it. You are in no situation to even comment on any prospect.

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

Yes, I did that too, but sometimes, you just have to throw a lol smilie because so many posters ignore him that he thinks he has the consensus ("see me and others think Carter > Malkin")

I don't care what you feel about me. I seen more of the penguins prospects that you have and probably have a better gauge on them which is honestly sad. You can only do so much reading before you need to watch a game.

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

One problem.

Is Tukonen rated too high, or is Nokelainen rated too low?

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I see Tukonen's scoring potential being a little higher than Nokelainen's, but I see Nokelainen's defence being better in potential.

At the moment Tukonen is 7.5B and Nokelainen is 6.0

I personally see both being 7B, but hey, that's just me.



Just out of curiosity, do you see MAF having higher ceiling than Lehtonen?

I love Lehtonen but yes. Fleury has much more speed and if someone could ever teach him to be patient and play more positioned in the net then Fleury may be on his way to many Vezina and Hart trophies.

 

[markov`]

Christopher Higgins isn't even on par with Matthew Stajan at this point (even though he's 6 months older and a full year ahead in terms of where he stands development-wise), and Leaf fans consider Stajan's upside as a #2 forward. Stajan's struggled this season and has still managed to outscore Higgins by a significant margine.

That just proves my point. Stajan is the 4th scorer on his team, same for Higgins. Stajan has 6 more points on a much, much more offensive team. Could you please stop being so ridiculous.

What's next? Robbie Earl is better than Christopher Higgins? Heck, it wouldn't even be your worst statement. Look at kmad signature, it is just priceless.

 

[Rahan]

Did JDD steal your girlfriend or something? You whine about him so much that its beyond redundant.

I don't know for him, but on my side, I've seen him play quite a lot in Chicoutimi and while being extremely quick, Jeff made about 3 or 4 bad decisions a game, trying to play the puck at wrong moments or turning the puck over in front of his own net. He had that ability to let in at least one softie a game (which doesn't make him worse than any other goaltender 'cause many of them do that). I would give JDD a 7B at best.

 

[markov`]

I don't know for him, but on my side, I've seen him play quite a lot in Chicoutimi and while being extremely quick, Jeff made about 3 or 4 bad decisions a game, trying to play the puck at wrong moments or turning the puck over in front of his own net. He had that ability to let in at least one softie a game (which doesn't make him worse than any other goaltender 'cause many of them do that). I would give JDD a 7B at best.

True that. I've seen JDD a lot of time live and I don't think he is that special. He has some upside though, but I think 8.5 is too high. I'm no goalie expert, but I think Alexandre Vincent is better.

 

[montreal]

Well, those are inflated comments since he's played at 2 levels... and I didn't say he wasn't skilled. But I said he didn't have the kind of offensive skills to be a top line forward in the NHL.

As for his playoff performance, he had 3 goals in 10 games... 2 other players had 3 goals... and Higgins ranked last on the team with a -7. It's not like he was taking care of his own end and contributing like he usually does.

You misunderstood what I said.

I never said he didn't show offensive upside, I said the talents he does possess aren't exactly translatable to the NHL for similar success, as a top line forward.

Christopher Higgins isn't even on par with Matthew Stajan at this point (even though he's 6 months older and a full year ahead in terms of where he stands development-wise), and Leaf fans consider Stajan's upside as a #2 forward. Stajan's struggled this season and has still managed to outscore Higgins by a significant margine.

USHS, NCAA, AHL are the 3 levels he's play at, and he's excelled at each level. There's nothing to inflate there. He was the top guy at Avalon, he was the top guy at Yale and he was heavily relied upon by the Bulldogs as a rookie.

So to you he doesn't have the offensive skills to be a top line player, that's fine by me. Perhaps he doesn't, but we'll see in time. This year he is struggling offensively as is the whole team. Last year they had a solid lineup and he likely benefited from it. Still his point per game average in Hamilton last year, is just a hair under Wellwood's league leading totals. I personally can't say what is the reason behind his lack of scoring, as he's getting his chances but unlike last year they just aren't going in.

As for the playoffs, as I said he was the top goal scorer on the team and was used to play in all situations, he was one of the only guys that stepped up in Perezhogin's absence, along with Milroy. Forget the -7, the team got smoked by Rochester and Higgins was being overused and was likely out of gas, after going from playing around 29 games for Yale the year before to playing close to 100 games between preseason, regular season, playoffs and his short NHL stay.

I've seen this kid play a lot, even before he was a Hab and happen to think his offenisve game is underrated. I could easily be overrating what I'm seeing, and this season has me concerned that his offensive game may not be progressing this year.

Higgins and Stajan on par? Who cares where one prospect is compared to another, it makes no difference and means nothing. Stajan got to play in the NHL, Higgins never really got his chance, as he played very little in the four games. IMO the Habs are taking it slow with every prospect, since they almost had a disater on their hands when they brought up Mike Ribeiro as a 19 year old. Since that 20 game stint, no U-20 prospect has played for the Habs. Stajan has nothing to do with Higgins, and if you like Stajan better then Higgins, good for you. I personally don't care what Stajan does or how many points he puts up or how many points Higgins gets, as stats can be misleading. Higgins is one of the bright spots in Hamitlon this year, even though the points aren't there (I don't know if he will even get 20 goals this year at the rate he's going with 8 so far) I also don't care what leaf fans think of Stajan, it has nothing to do with Higgins.

 

[leafaholix*]

USHS, NCAA, AHL are the 3 levels he's play at, and he's excelled at each level. There's nothing to inflate there. He was the top guy at Avalon, he was the top guy at Yale and he was heavily relied upon by the Bulldogs as a rookie.

Is high school hockey really a "level"? His time with Avalon counts as 2 levels... but every CHL prospect considers it as 1.

... just a hair under Wellwood's league leading totals...

Higgins and Stajan on par? Who cares where one prospect is compared to another, it makes no difference and means nothing. Stajan got to play in the NHL, Higgins never really got his chance, as he played very little in the four games.

Stajan didn't "get" to play in the NHL. He played himself onto a deep NHL roster. No need to diminish the importance of a 19 year old cracking the NHL by saying he "got" to play there, as if the Maple Leafs left a roster spot open for him prior to camp.

Stajan has nothing to do with Higgins, and if you like Stajan better then Higgins, good for you. I personally don't care what Stajan does or how many points he puts up or how many points Higgins gets, as stats can be misleading. Higgins is one of the bright spots in Hamitlon this year, even though the points aren't there (I don't know if he will even get 20 goals this year at the rate he's going with 8 so far) I also don't care what leaf fans think of Stajan, it has nothing to do with Higgins.

I think it does have a little bit to do with Higgins. Stajan's skill level is atleast on par with Chris Higgins and he's not considered a top line talent... which he really shouldn't be until he proves more in the NHL. Montreal's rankings have Higgins' downside as Stajan's concensus upside... which isn't right.

I'm just speaking from another perspective. If you can't see your rating of Higgins is a bit high, that's fine.

 

[leafaholix*]

That just proves my point. Stajan is the 4th scorer on his team, same for Higgins. Stajan has 6 more points on a much, much more offensive team. Could you please stop being so ridiculous.

Get your numbers right, 8 more points in 1 fewer game.

What's next? Robbie Earl is better than Christopher Higgins? Heck, it wouldn't even be your worst statement. Look at kmad signature, it is just priceless.

Kmad's signature has nothing to do with me.

 

[Saku K]

Carl O'Steen, I would agree with you that montreal over-rates Chris Higgins by a small margin. He used to rate him 8A or stud first line forward and I completly disagreed with him. Now, he is rated 8B which is IMO much more realistic but if I had to rate Chris Higgins, I would give him a 7.5B.

Chris Higgins has virtually no weakness in his game. His size, who was a concern when he was drafted, doesn't seem to be a liability to his game. One thing is for sure, Chris Higgins will log huge amount of ice time as a two-way specialist. This kid is a coach's dream: extremly smart, defensively aware and works extremly hard. Don't bring up the -7 again because most the minuses were due to blowout losses and the +/- is more of a team(line) stats than anything and that particular statistic that you try to make a point out of means absolutely nothing on what kind of defensive performer Higgins really is IMO. He is extremly reliable and I expect him to be on the ice in every key defensive situations and has the talent to be considered a sure-shot strong third line forward (6.5) IMO.

Now, I think he definitely owns above-average offensive potential but not enough to be considered a potential first-line forward (8.0). He is struggling in the AHL this season on the scoresheet, that is a true statement. Higgins played mainly with a struggling Steve Ott (he started scoring a lot lately though), Michael Lambert, a rookie who should be in the ECHL IMO and M-A Thinel who a serviceable AHLer at best. He also plays in a tight defensive system because the team is simply not talented enough to rival offensively with the most talented team in the AHL. This young team has without a doubt struggled offensively so far and lacks the scoring forwards to get the job done.

That does not excuse Higgins' (lack of) point productions but you have to consider these factors as to not single out Chris Higgins in the situation and say his offensive upside has taken a hit or compare him to Matt Stajan who is in a completly different situation and a different player as well.

I don't know if Higgins will be able to score enough to be on a NHL scoring line. The only thing I know is that if he does, he will log ton of ice time and he will be a great enough defensive performer to be considered a strong second-line forward (7.5).

Edit: Typo

 

[leafaholix*]

Carl O'Steen, I would agree with you that montreal over-rates Chris Higgins by a small margin. He used to rate him 8A or stud first line forward and I completly disagreed with him. Now, he is rated 8B which is IMO much more realistic but if I had to rate Chris Higgins, I would give him a 7.5B.

Chris Higgins has virtually no weakness in his game. His size, who was a concern when he was drafted, doesn't seem to be a liability to his game. One thing is for sure, Chris Higgins will log huge amount of ice time as a two-way specialist. This kid is a coach's dream: extremly smart, defensively aware and works extremly hard. Don't bring up the -7 again because most the minuses were due to blowout losses and the +/- is more of a team(line) stats than anything and that particular statistic that you try to make a point out of means absolutely nothing on what kind of defensive performer Higgins really is IMO. He is extremly reliable and I expect him to be on the ice in every key defensive situations and has the talent to be considered a sure-shot strong third line forward (6.5).

Now, I think he definitely owns above-average offensive potential but not enough to be considered a potential first-line forward (8.0). He is struggling in the AHL this season on the scoresheet, that is a true statement. Higgins played mainly with a struggling Steve Ott (he started scoring a lot lately though), Michael Lambert, a rookie who should be in the ECHL IMO and M-A Thinel who a serviceable AHLer at best. He also plays in a tight defensive system because the team is simply not talent enough to rival offensively with the most talented team in the AHL. This young team has without a doubt struggled offensively so far and lacks the scoring forwards to get the job done.

That does not excuse Higgins' (lack of) point productions but you have to consider these factors as to not single out Chris Higgins in the situation and say his offensive upside has taken a hit or compare him to Matt Stajan who is in a completly different situation and a different player as well.

I don't know if Higgins will be able to score enough to be on a NHL scoring line. The only thing I know is that if he does, he will log ton of ice time and he will be a great enough defensive performer to be considered a strong second-line forward (7.5).

I agree.

A 7 to 7.5B is much more realistic.

It's not his production I'm doubting, it's his overall offensive skills and the potential to become a top liner in the league. He definitely has above average talents offensively, but enough to be a top line player? I don't think so.

At the very worst I see him as a solid 3rd line forward. His NHL future isn't in doubt, he'll play there. It's just his offensive skills I don't think are great enough to be a top liner... and a second liner (at worst).

 

[markov`]

Get your numbers right, 8 more points in 1 fewer game.

Kmad's signature has nothing to do with me.

Ok so 8 points put Stajan on a whole another level. IMO the only comparision we can make is that both are the 4th leading scorer on their team, but yeah, since Higgins is a Habs prospect, you ignore the fact that Hamilton are probably the worst offensive team in the league.

I don't know if it's kmad signature, I thought it was. I'm talking about the "Crosby will close the cap with Wellwood" citation.

 

[leafaholix*]

Ok so 8 points put Stajan on a whole another level. IMO the only comparision we can make is that both are the 4th leading scorer on their team, but yeah, since Higgins is a Habs prospect, you ignore the fact that Hamilton are probably the worst offensive team in the league.

I'm sure if Higgins would capitalize more often, that wouldn't be the case.

I don't know if it's kmad signature, I thought it was. I'm talking about the "Crosby will close the cap with Wellwood" citation.

I didn't make the comment, but it's obviously in gest.

 

[markov`]

I'm sure if Higgins would capitalize more often, that wouldn't be the case.

I didn't make the comment, but it's obviously in gest.

Anyway I am not comparing the two, right now I'd take Stajan but I am sure that if Higgins was a Leaf, and Stajan was a Hab you would currently be saying that Higgins is better.

You didn't make the comment? Yes you did. I remember the topic. And you weren't even joking.

 

[leafaholix*]

Anyway I am not comparing the two, right now I'd take Stajan but I am sure that if Higgins was a Leaf, and Stajan was a Hab you would currently be saying that Higgins is better.

You're just assuming that... and it would be wrong.

You didn't make the comment? Yes you did. I remember the topic. And you weren't even joking.

Show link.

 

[Diaboli]

You're just assuming that... and it would be wrong.

I wouldn't be so sure about that...

 

[leafaholix*]

I wouldn't be so sure about that...

Well, if Matthew Stajan played 70 games on the Habs roster... and Higgins was in the AHL for the Leafs, it would have to be a mighty good reason as to why I'd take Higgins over Stajan.

 

[markov`]

After reviewing it is kmad signature.

 

[Vic Rattlehead*]

Anyway I am not comparing the two, right now I'd take Stajan but I am sure that if Higgins was a Leaf, and Stajan was a Hab you would currently be saying that Higgins is better.

You didn't make the comment? Yes you did. I remember the topic. And you weren't even joking.

Come on Markov. I remember the thread, he didn't make the comment. It's like you hate the guy or something.

 

[Vic Rattlehead*]

Crosby is still young and he still has the ability to get better so eventually he will close the gap between himself and Wellwood skills.

Take my word on that .

Too early to call Wellwood the clear winner ..

TSN had the TOP TEN best WJC goals of all time, from all teams every and Wellwood's goal in the WJC a couple of years ago was the BEST WJC SCORED ever according to TSN ..

ZING!

 

[Juicer]

I'd like to think of myself as an objective fanatic.

Really?

 

[leafaholix*]

OK, I choose big homer.

Good stuff, now... can we carry on with the topic of the thread?

 

[abracanada]

Good stuff, now... can we carry on with the topic of the thread?

Well, Phaneuf is better than most of the players rated ahead of him.

 

[Jared Ramsden]

I get to see Ladd play alot here in Calgary and the guy is honestly an embarassment to the team. I just see so much laziness in his game. Not only that, but he was the fourth overall pick AND he played on possibly the best Team Canada at the WJs ever!

That's a bit harsh. I see Ladd play all the time, and yes, he has not played at the same level he has played last season, but to say he won't be any more than a 4th line grinder? That's highly unlikely. At worst, he'll be a two-way, 3rd line crash and bang winger who can put up 15 goals a season, and that is at worst. Playing with Getzlaf seems to have put a "lazy" label on him. Ladd has all the tools to be a dominant power forward. He showed what he is capable of last season. Just because he has had a tough start to this season, doesn't mean he's going to flop.

 

[David A. Rainer]

Stop with all the "stupid homer" blasts in this thread or I'm going to be forced to close the thread down.