HF 2018-2019 Keeper League PLAYOFFS (Final standings pg28)

Discussion in 'GM Games and HF Leagues' started by 5 Mins 4 Ftg, Jun 21, 2018.

  1. 5 Mins 4 Ftg Honey Badger don’t give a sh!t Sponsor

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  2. 5 Mins 4 Ftg Honey Badger don’t give a sh!t Sponsor

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    Rules & Scoring

    ROSTERS

    No less than 22 players and no more than 26 total players can be on a single roster at any time.

    No less than 2 goalies and no more than 3 goalies can be on a single roster at any time.

    No less than 13F/7D can be on a single roster at any time.

    All players will count towards scoring however only the top 12F/6D/2G will count towards the final total. This means you have an "active" roster of 20 players and a "reserve" roster of up to 6 players.

    No salary cap. How great a team can you build regardless of how much a player is paid?

    No injury or holdout changes allowed. Once you draft a player you own him until the off season or unless you drop the player (see player drop and waiver claims rules).


    TRADES

    Trade proposals must be sent by PM or EM to me and will be approved by me as league commissioner once both parties respond.

    However if 75% of the managers dissent within 48 hours of trade the trade is overturned.

    I will not be involved in approving any trades of team(s) I manage and the 75% rule will apply.

    Cannot trade between 2 teams run by the same GM.

    Approved trades are effective as of trade request date when both parties send in the request.

    Future points will be counted but current points are not moved. Current points stay with the original team.

    Future draft picks can be traded but you must own your pick. A max of 2 future draft picks can be traded for or away in any draft year.

    Trading deadline is at midnight Mountain time the day after the NHL trade deadline. (Gives players a chance to see who has been traded in the NHL)

    Trading deadline expires after the NHL regular season ends.


    PLAYER DROPS

    You can drop any players in season you want so long as you do not go below roster minimums (22 players) and position minimums (13F/7D/2G) and no drops after the trade deadline.

    Dropped players then become Free Agents (see rules on Free Agents below)

    It is up to teams to watch the threads for drops and free agents.

    Players dropped cannot be picked up by a team owned by the same person.

    Unclaimed players return to the player pool and are available for the next player draft.


    FREE AGENTS

    Any player not drafted can be claimed by any other team at any time provided:
    1. The team is not owned by the same owner as the team who dropped the player (GMs with 2 teams)
    2. The team does not exceed the roster limit of 26 players.
    3. An NHL team owns the rights to the player or the player is on a PTO.
    4. The commissioner has the final say on free agent eligibility.

    Free Agent pickups are first come first served by posting in this thread AND by PM or EM to league commissioner (me).

    A team has a maximum of 4 free agent pickups throughout the season.

    Free agents can be claimed beginning Oct 4 after the NHL season has started.

    The NHL trade deadline date will serve as the final date a free agent can be picked up.

    The team starts to count points from the player from when he was signed. Current points do not move.

    You can drop any number of players once the season ends. Those players go back into the draft pool as free agents.


    NEW TEAMS

    This year we are expanding to Seattle, with the Seattle Kraken managed by @Joey Moss
    See below for Expansion Draft Rules

    Each manager can own or manage up to 2 teams in one season.

    The league will operate with 22 teams total this year.

    Current available teams are:
    NONE

    If anyone drops a team and that team is not picked up by a new team owner it will remain as OPEN and I will do any transactions for the team until such a time the team is picked up by a new owner.


    MISC

    If you change your user name please let me know!

    Statistics will be compiled by hockeydraft.ca Each player will be given a login and pw to the site.

    I will post the overall stats daily. For detailed stats you must log in to hockegdraft.ca


    SCORING

    The top 12F/6D/2G will count towards the final total.
    Points and standings are located at hockeydraft.ca. You need a login and PW to view and daily updates will come by email to anyone who PMs me their email address.

    Scoring for 2018/19 season is the same as last year and is as follows:

    Forwards
    Goals - 1.0
    Assists - 1.0
    PPG - 0.2
    PPA - 0.2
    SHG - 0.3
    SHA - 0.3
    OTG - 0.5
    Hat tricks - 3
    Hits - 0.05
    Blocks - 0.05
    PIM - 0.1
    Fights - 2.0

    Defenseman
    Goals - 1.1
    Assists - 1.1
    PPG - 0.2
    PPA - 0.2
    SHG - 0.3
    SHA - 0.3
    OTG - 0.5
    Hat tricks - 5
    Hits - 0.05
    Blocks - 0.05
    PIM - 0.1
    Fights - 2.0

    Goalies
    Wins - 2.0
    Shutouts - 2.0
    Goals - 5.0
    Assists - 3.0
    PIM - 0.1
    Fights - 2.0
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2018
  3. 5 Mins 4 Ftg Honey Badger don’t give a sh!t Sponsor

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    EXPANSION RULES —>>DISREGARD EXPANSION FOR 2019/20 SEASON

    1. Each team must lose 1 player.
    2. Each team can protect 1 Goalie, plus 9 of any combination of players positions from any draft year.
    3. Seattle can pick only 1 player per team and must finish the draft at least 2 G but no more than 3 G and 21 players total.
    4. Seattle must finish the Entry Draft with the league roster minimum of 22 players, 2 G, 7D, 13F.
    5. Seattle will draft in 12th position, after the non playoff teams and before the playoff teams.
    6. Seattle will be able to draft any free agents who are "unsigned" NWHL eligible player before any team in a priority selection. This does not include players in the entry draft.
    7. Seattle cannot draft more than 4 Free Agents in the priority selection.
    8. All players taken in the priority selection count against the cap of 4 Free Agents Seattle can sign during the year. (ex. if Seattle takes 2 players in the priority selection they can only sign 2 more players the rest of the year until the trade deadline.)
    9. Teams can make side deals with Seattle to not lose a specific player. These can be in the form of draft picks and players traded to Seattle but each team must lose at least 1 player.
    10. Seattle can never go over the roster limits of 26 players and can never have more than 3 Goaltenders.


    KEY DATES
    League Player Drops and Protected Lists Due Date: June 30
    Seattle Priority Free Agent Draft due date: Wednesday July 4
    Seattle Expansion Draft Date: Thursday July 5
    League Entry Draft Date: Starts Friday July 6 (should be done by Sunday night)
    League Free Agent Signings: After draft is complete.

    Example of Roster with Protected Players (X denotes player is protected)
    HF 2018-2019 Keeper League Rosters & Player Movement Tracker

    Player Drops will be listed in a separate post in this thread.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2019
  4. Dabeast Dab east

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    Protection list
    1 Crosby
    2 Trocheck
    3 Pastarnak
    4 Larkin
    5 Keller
    6 Ehlers
    7 Ekman-Larsson
    8 Dadonov
    9 Mantha

    1 Dubnyk
     
  5. 5 Mins 4 Ftg Honey Badger don’t give a sh!t Sponsor

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    2017/2018 4 ROUND ENTRY DRAFT RULES

    You can drop any number of players once the season ends. Those players go back into the draft/free agent pool. The deadline for player drops for the draft is midnight mountain time Sept 27

    You must have as many roster spots open as draft picks you intend on making. Example, if your roster is 26 of 26 players you must drop 4 players to have 4 draft picks and so on.

    Your team must be at the 22 player roster minimum before the season begins with 13F/7D & 2G minimum.

    A 4 round draft will take place beginning Friday July 6 at 3 PM MST.

    Draft order will be the reverse order of your rosters regular season points totals followed by the reverse order of the playoff teams standings.

    It is not a snake draft.

    You may formally pass a draft pick. Once passed you may no longer draft.

    The time slots will be 1 hour for Round 1 and a half hour for Rounds 2-4. You must post your pick and then please PM the next player up.

    If you do not submit your pick during your time slot you will be passed over and can submit your pick at anytime after your turn.

    If you miss 2 picks in a row your picks may be autoed and a second to confirm.

    Once the draft is closed you may no longer draft players.

    XXXXXX (team name) means the team which owns this pick cannot draft anymore and must pass as they will be at roster limits and must drop a player to draft at this slot. (**note not all teams have submitted player drops . I will update this list whenever a team submits their drops by Sept 23)

    Eligible players are any player drafted by an NHL team, any current NHL Roster player who isn't already owned, any player on a PTO at the time of the player drop deadline, and any player whose playing in another league whose rights are held by an NHL team (example, Nichuskin Dallas plays in the KHL).

    Ineligible players are unsigned UFA's, undrafted players, players playing in other leagues ex KHL) whose rights are not held by an NHL team (ex Dwight King)

    NWHL 2018/19 ENTRY DRAFT ORDER

    ROUND 1
    1. St Louis Blues - Rasmus Dahlin D
    2. Los Angeles Kings - Andrei Svechnikov
    3. Arizona Coyotes - Filip Zadina
    4. Nashville Predators - Quintin Hughes D
    5. Colorado Avalanche - Brady Tkachuk
    6. Detroit Red Wings - Evan Bouchard D
    7. Anaheim Ducks - Travis Dermott D
    8. Vancouver Canucks - Jesperi Kotkaniemi
    9. Vegas Golden Knights - Adam Boqvist D
    10. New Jersey Devils - Ryan Donato
    11. New York Islanders - Brian Dumolin D
    12. Seattle Kraken - Robert Thomas
    13. New York Rangers - Morgan Frost
    14. Tampa Bay Lightning - Oliver Wahlstrom
    15. Washington Capitals - Carter Hart G
    16. Edmonton Oilers - Noah Dobson D
    17. Buffalo Sabres - Linus Ullmark G
    18. Carolina Hurricanes - Kieth Kinkaid G
    19. Florida Panthers - Danton Hienen
    20. Columbus Blue Jackets - Joel Farabee
    21. Chicago Black Hawks - Vince Dunn D
    22. Arizona Coyotes (from Boston Bruins) - Ty Smith D

    ROUND 2
    1. St Louis Blues - Ty Dellandrea
    2. New York Islanders (from Los Angeles Kings) - Travis Sanhiem D
    3. Arizona Coyotes - Ryan Merkely D
    4. Nashville Predators - Kristian Vesalainen
    5. Colorado Avalanche - Colton Point G
    6. Detroit Red Wings - Barret Hayton
    7. Friday Florida Panthers (from Anaheim Ducks) - Kale Clague D
    8. Vancouver Canucks - Jonathan Dahlen
    9. Vegas Golden Knights - Dylan Sikura
    10. New Jersey Devils - Anthony Cirelli
    11. New York Islanders - Brayden McNabb D
    12. Seattle Kraken - Vitaly Kravtsov
    13. New York Rangers - Sami Niku D
    14. Tampa Bay Lightning - Andrej Sekera D
    15. Washington Capitals - Slava Voynov D
    16. Edmonton Oilers - Malcom Subban G
    17. Los Angeles Kings (from Buffalo Sabres) - Adam Pelech D
    18. Carolina Hurricanes - JT Compher
    19. Florida Panthers - Jamie Oleksiak D
    20. Columbus Blue Jackets - Chris Tierney
    21. Chicago Black Hawks - Jonathan Bernier G
    22. Vegas Golden Knights (from Nashville Predators - Boston Bruins) Max Jones

    ROUND 3
    1. St Louis Blues - Martin Kaut
    2. New York Islanders (from Los Angeles Kings) - Andreas Johnsson
    3. Arizona Coyotes - Lars Eller
    4. Vegas Golden Knights (from Nashville Predators) - Sonny Milano
    5. Colorado Avalanche - Jason Robertson
    6. Vegas Golden Knights (from Detroit Red Wings) - Dennis Cholowski - D
    7. Anaheim Ducks - Adam Fox D
    8. Vancouver Canucks XXXXXXX
    9. Vegas Golden Knights - Libor Hajek D
    10. New Jersey Devils - Riley Nash
    11. New York Islanders - Austin Watson
    12. Seattle Kraken - Jujhar Khaira
    13. New York Rangers - Michael Del Zotto D
    14. Tampa Bay Lightning - Tobias Reider
    15. Washington Capitals - Valentin Zykov
    16. Edmonton Oilers - Ty Rattie
    17. Buffalo Sabres - Neal Pionk D
    18. Carolina Hurricanes - Alexander Alexeyev D
    19. Florida Panthers - Grigori Denisenko
    20. Columbus Blue Jackets - Jan Ruutta D
    21. Chicago Black Hawks - Adam Lowry
    22. Vegas Golden Knights (from Nashville Predators - Boston Bruins) - Cliff Pu

    ROUND 4
    1. St Louis Blues - Jonatan Berggren
    2. Los Angeles Kings - Jason Demers D
    3. Arizona Coyotes - Auston Czarnik
    4. Nashville Predators XXXXXXX
    5. Colorado Avalanche - Dominic Bokk
    6. Detroit Red Wings - Matt Peca
    7. Anaheim Ducks - Joe Veleno
    8. Vancouver Canucks XXXXXXX
    9. Vegas Golden Knights - Janne Kuokkanen
    10. New Jersey Devils - Casey De Smith G
    11. Chicago Black Hawks (from New York Islanders) - Michael Grabner
    12. Seattle Kraken - Jordan Greenway
    13. New York Rangers - Michael Kempny D
    14. Tampa Bay Lightning - Zdeno Chara D
    15. Washington Capitals - Markus Nutivaara
    16. Edmonton Oilers XXXXXXX
    17. Vegas Golden Knights (from Buffalo Sabres) - Max Comtois
    18. Carolina Hurricanes - Vinnie Hinostroza
    19. Florida Panthers - K'Andre Miller - D
    20. Columbus Blue Jackets - Chad Krys - D
    21. Chicago Black Hawks - Stephen Johns - D
    22. Detroit Red Wings (from Boston Bruins) - Mikko Koskinen G

    You can see the top undrafted players from last year by logging into the hockeydraft.ca site, from the menu on the left choose Top Undrafted and make selections on position etc from there. Thx to KC for the tip!
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2018
  6. 5 Mins 4 Ftg Honey Badger don’t give a sh!t Sponsor

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    PLAYER DROP LIST

    Please post your player drops (and protected lists) in this thread asap thanks!!

    Reminder that you have to have roster spots open to make those draft picks and you will have 1 automatically open with the lost player to Seattle.

    Retired players are auto dropped/ KHL players with no NHL rights are auto dropped.

    You are not forced to drop any players but you will all lose 1 player to Seattle so you will all start with roster spots of 25 out of 26.

    PLAYER DROPS / Number of draft picks eligible / Roster Spots Open
    Anaheim / 3 / 3 (Need 0 drops) Quenneville
    Arizona / 5 / 5 (Need 0 drops) Cammeleri, Garrison, Wood
    Boston / 1 / 0 (Need 0 drops) Clague
    Buffalo / 3 / 3 (Need 0 drops) Greiss
    Carolina / 4 / 4 (Need 0 drops) Versteeg, Emelin, Pouliot
    Chicago / 4 / 3 (Need 1 drop ) Halak, Beaulieu
    Colorado / 4 / 6 (Need 0 drops) Sekera, McNabb, Milano, Lowry, Martinook
    Columbus / 4 / 4 (Need 0 drops) Dahlen, Mueller, Kunitz
    Detroit / 4 / 4 (Need 0 drops) Vermette, Coburn, Clifford
    Edmonton / 4 / 3 (Need 1 drop) Sanheim, McLoed
    Florida 5 / 5 (Need 0 drops) Antipin, Dotchin, Hutton, Z Smith
    Vegas 4 / 4 (Need 0 drops) Derek Engelland
    Los Angeles 3 / 3 (Need 0 drops) Alzner, Stecher
    Nashville 6 / 5 (Need 1 drop) Gudbranson, Daley, Colborne, Spezza
    New Jersey 4 / 4 (Need 0 drops) Hanzal, Murphy, Stafford
    NYI 6 / 7 (Need 0 drops) Schlemko, Ward, Chimera, Martin
    NYR 4 / 6 (Need 0 drops) Santini, Carlo, Heinen, Savard, Danault
    St Louis 4 / 4 (Need 0 drops) Jokinen, Reider, Demers
    Tampa 4 / 4 (Need 0 drops) Senyshen, Letestu, Bouwmeester
    Vancouver 4 / 2 (Need 2 drops) Dal Colle
    Washington 4 / 4 (Need 0 drops) Yakupov, Weal, Lehkonen
    Seattle 4 / 3 (No drops applicable)

    Here are the positional needs for the upcoming draft/free agency period:

    Colorado - 1 D
    Seattle - 1 D

    These must be filled before the season starts in October.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2018
  7. 5 Mins 4 Ftg Honey Badger don’t give a sh!t Sponsor

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    NWHL TEAMS

    2018/19 GMs / teams
    (click on team managers name to get to their user page)
    (click on roster link to be taken to their roster)


    Anaheim Ducks...........PredsForPresidents
    Roster link: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/posts/135506709/

    Arizona Coyotes.........Scholarships
    Roster link: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/posts/135506715/

    Boston Bruins.............5 Mins 4 Ftg
    Roster link: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/posts/135506743/

    Buffalo Sabres...........Zemgus26
    Roster link: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/posts/135506757/

    Carolina Hurricanes.............Benn14 (2)
    Roster link: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/posts/135506763/

    Chicago Black Hawks............Zemgus26 (2)
    Roster link: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/posts/135506769/

    Colorado Avalanche.................Latvian Twist
    Roster link: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/posts/135506777/

    Columbus Blue Jackets.........AmericanDream
    Roster link: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/posts/135506791/

    Detroit Red Wings....Drop Your Gloves
    Roster link: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/posts/135506811/

    Edmonton Oilers.........KC Golden Barons
    Roster link: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/posts/135506817/

    Florida Panthers........Dabeast
    Roster link: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/posts/135506819/

    Vegas Golden Knights...........5 Mins 4 Ftg
    Roster link: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/posts/135506823/

    Los Angeles Kings.........PredsForPresidents (2)
    Roster link: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/posts/135506839/

    Nashville Predators.........Retinalz (2)
    Roster link: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/posts/135506863/

    New Jersey Devils..............RogueStatus
    Roster link: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/posts/135506879/

    New York Islanders....my name is Bob
    Roster link: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/posts/135506887/

    New York Rangers............hi
    Roster link: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/posts/135506911/

    St Louis Blues...............Benn14
    Roster link: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/posts/135506921/

    Tampa Bay Lightning...............McIce Whole
    Roster link: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/posts/135506943/

    Vancouver Canucks..............Retinalz
    Roster link: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/posts/135506973/

    Washington Capitals................Dr John Carlson
    Roster link: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/posts/135506993/

    Seattle Kraken. ..........Joey Moss
    Roster link:
    https://hfboards.mandatory.com/posts/136315659/
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2018
  8. Joey Moss Registered User

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    Seattle would like to move up into top 6-7 of Entry Draft and would be willing to make a deal to stay away from a player to do so.
     
  9. 5 Mins 4 Ftg Honey Badger don’t give a sh!t Sponsor

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    First in! Awesome thanks!
    reminder - You only need to drop 3 players if you plan on drafting 4 new players as you lose 1 automatically to Seattle.
     
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  10. 5 Mins 4 Ftg Honey Badger don’t give a sh!t Sponsor

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    :bruins Protected List
    1 Vasilevski
    2 Wilson
    3 Point
    4 Eichel
    5 Matthews
    6 Ristolianen
    7 Rielly
    8 Reinhart
    9 Schmaltz
    10 Sergachev
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2018
  11. 5 Mins 4 Ftg Honey Badger don’t give a sh!t Sponsor

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  12. 5 Mins 4 Ftg Honey Badger don’t give a sh!t Sponsor

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    Rosters all updated with UFA status and RETIRED PLAYERS.

    Player drop thread updated so you can quickly how many picks you have in the draft and how many players you must drop if you want to take advantage of every pick in the draft.

    Note you can drop more than the number shown or less.

    FREE AGENTS are eligible to be signed (first come first served) once the draft is completed.
     
  13. Dr John Carlson Light is all over us

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    :caps

    Protected list:

    Barkov
    Aho
    Backstrom
    Schenn
    Benn
    Couturier
    Marner
    Necas
    Yandle

    Reimer
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2018
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  14. Dr John Carlson Light is all over us

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    :caps

    Drop Yakupov and Weal. Might drop one more later.
     
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  15. Joey Moss Registered User

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    Seattle will announce their first UFA signing Ilya Kovalchuk

    Might add 1-2 more in the future once I know everyone's protection list!
     
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  16. 5 Mins 4 Ftg Honey Badger don’t give a sh!t Sponsor

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    I will be PMing everyone to get going on their lists tomorrow.
     
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  17. MackAttack26 Registered User

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    :sabres protect

    1. Claude Giroux
    2. Phil Kessel
    3. Sean Monohan
    4. Ryan Getzlaf
    5. James van Riemsdyk
    6. Jeff Carter
    7. John Klingberg
    8. Jake Gardiner
    9. Colin Miller
    10. Thatcher Demko
     
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  18. 5 Mins 4 Ftg Honey Badger don’t give a sh!t Sponsor

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  19. 5 Mins 4 Ftg Honey Badger don’t give a sh!t Sponsor

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    @Scholarships Check your PM box for a trade proposal! Please! o_O
     
  20. MackAttack26 Registered User

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    :hawks protect

    1. Steven Stamkos
    2. Anders Lee
    3. Artemi Panarin
    4. Viktor Arvidsson
    5. Elias Pettersson
    6. John Carlson
    7. Ryan Ellis
    8. Nick Leddy
    9. Jake Muzzin
    10. Corey Crawford
     
    Night Witch likes this.
  21. MackAttack26 Registered User

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2015
    Messages:
    8,688
    Likes Received:
    2,564
    Trophy Points:
    126
    SB Cash:
    $ 200,000
    Location:
    Ontario
    :sabres drop Thomas Greiss

    :hawks drop Jaroslav Halak and Nathan Beaulieu
     
    Night Witch likes this.
  22. 5 Mins 4 Ftg Honey Badger don’t give a sh!t Sponsor

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2016
    Messages:
    20,782
    Likes Received:
    18,033
    Trophy Points:
    141
    SB Cash:
    $ 200,000
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    None
    Location:
    Edmonton
    (REPOSTING)
    :panthers Protection list
    1 Crosby
    2 Trocheck
    3 Pastarnak
    4 Larkin
    5 Keller
    6 Ehlers
    7 Ekman-Larsson
    8 Dadonov
    9 Mantha

    1 Dubnyk
     
  23. PredsForPresidents Registered User

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2014
    Messages:
    1,171
    Likes Received:
    106
    Trophy Points:
    81
    SB Cash:
    $ 200,000
    Location:
    British Columbia
    :kings
    Protect

    1. Scheifele
    2. Provorov
    3. Boeser
    4. Pavelski
    5. Zuccarello
    6. Galchenyuk
    7. Giordano
    8. Makar
    9. Steel

    1. Elliot

    Drops Alzner and Stecher

    :ducks
    Protect

    1. Wheeler
    2. Josi
    3. Slavin
    4. McAvoy
    5. Suter
    6. Zibanejad
    7. Tolvanen
    8. Horvat
    9. Bjugstad

    1. Markstrom

    Drops Quenneville
     
    Night Witch likes this.
  24. 5 Mins 4 Ftg Honey Badger don’t give a sh!t Sponsor

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2016
    Messages:
    20,782
    Likes Received:
    18,033
    Trophy Points:
    141
    SB Cash:
    $ 200,000
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    None
    Location:
    Edmonton
    :coyotes
    Protects per list
    1. Evgeny Kuznetsov
    2. Jake Guentzel
    3. Marcus Johansson
    4. James Neal
    5. Oscar Klefbom
    6. Damon Severson
    7. Milan Lucic
    8. Michael Ferland
    9. Kevin Labanc
    10. Braden Holtby
    Drops per list
    Garrison and Wood.
     
  25. Dabeast Dab east

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2014
    Messages:
    6,510
    Likes Received:
    673
    Trophy Points:
    113
    SB Cash:
    $ 200,000
    Location:
    South Florida
    I drop Victor Antipin, Jake Dotchin, and Ben Hutton
     
    Night Witch likes this.

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