Hexy or Homer?

[FLYguy3911]

Hopefully the ship hasn't sailed on Sanheim being a #4.

 

[Lindberg]

Lehtera? You mean just Lehtera?

For an additional #1 pick, I do that trade every day. Considering Homer had about 8 ridiculous anchors, I think Hexy gets 1.

Also Curufinwe is correct...essentially Hextall lost cap space in that deal + Hartnell deal. Had dead Umberger so he didn't have dead Hartnell years later.

I'm not saying that acquiring Lehtera was a bad idea but he did burdened himself with the removal of cap space for doing so. Same with acquiring Filppula.

The same can also apply with Umberger since it is 100% unknown what the reality of that trade was. I'd love to hear what the reality of that trade was.

 

[Rebels57]

Hopefully the ship hasn't sailed on Sanheim being a #4.

It's pretty clear he will be a #6 until Hakstol is gone.

Maybe this some elaborate scheme to keep his next contract down?

Nah, they are just stupid.

 

[Lindberg]

But that's the point -- Hextall only now (offseason 4) has the space to do what Holmgren did Year 1. That's why they can't be measured the same. Even so -- Hextall went out and got one of the best FAs on the market this year, yet doesn't get credit for that. It's as if he sat on his hands this offseason still to some folks.

That is a fair point to make. The clock has started ticking now and eventually Hextall needs to do things to push this club forward.

 

[Lindberg]

I assume you're referring to the Hartnell and Schenn trades, but they didn't take up extra cap space. In both cases, the cap hits exchanged were about even for the first two years, then cap space was/will be gained two years down the line.

Given that we're not sure of what the specifics of the trades were Hextall still took back cap dollars. I'm merely pointing out that some of it was self inflicted for better or worse.

 

[Striiker]

All to his credit, Hextall got out of 80% of the bad Homer contracts by his 2nd year.

He cleaned up that mess masterfully, but that was 3-years ago.

Some of ya'll need to check your calendars: it's the 2018-19 season not 2015-16.

He has had time

He's spent a lot of draft capital on defense with the promise of "we're gonna be great in the long haul by building from the net out", and 5-years later here we are with the 2nd most goals against in the NHL only behind a team that is off to their worst start in their 90+ year history and are blatantly tanking. How is this possible?!

He has done absolutely nothing to fix the G & D except think too highly of his own players.

Provorov isn't Drew Doughty & Ghost is a liability in our own end & Sanheim isn't the player a lot of us though he'd be (he can still be rock solid Top 4 which would be awesome, but the ship sailed on him maybe being top pair), Morin... don't even get me started on Morin both on the player himself and this teams failure to give him a rightful chance out of camp last year and now he's looking at not having a chance at a bottom pair NHL role until 2019-20.

Years ago it was "just wait for the defensive cavalry to get here! we'll be set for life!"
Well (with the exception of Myers).... they're here and it's not as pretty as promised.

We're still bleeding goals and look lost defensively. I'll accept the logic that it's on Hak & we need a better system for the the players to play in... but that sin in is 1000% on Hextall because of his inability to admit he was wrong on his son's coach.

This whole plan is now riding on the back of Carter Hart, which is foolish considering you don't know what any kind of goalie is gonna be until he proves it in the NHL. God I hope he's right on Carter Hart. If he's not, we're screwed.


So with his first chance to do damage in UFA & swing his UFA dick around... he signs a 30-year old winger to a bad contract.

The same kind of contract half of this thread is rightfully kicking Homer for.

There is so much wrong here that I assume you did it on purpose.

Really really bad post.

 

[The Burdened]

Hextall is in his fifth year and has given this team a slew of prospects and a very manageable cap. Did you expect that he would have made this team a Cup champion by now? Is this the year that he was supposed to do it and you are counting him out already? What exactly is your measurement for what he is supposed to do?

Unfortunately, most that continue to talk & brag about our prospects... they ignore the idea/reality that these prospects are actually not as good as we think they are.

I didn't expect us to be a Cup contender this year, but I sure as hell expected us to have not allowed the 2nd most goals in the NHL eventhough we pumped our chest for the last 5-years that "we have the deepest defensive prospect pool in the league! We're gonna be so set on D."

IDK how many games you've watched this year, but the D is an unmitigated train wreck and we have Provorov, Ghost, Sanheim & Hagg (aka 4 of the 6 highly touted defensive prospects) in the lineup.

People can deflect that accountability away from the players and not entertain the idea that they're not as good as we thought in favor of pushing it to Hakstoll. I'm 100% on board with that idea, but Hextall won't fire the coaching staff. Because he's not gonna fire the coach and getting a new system for these players to play in, he is harming there development and is really damaging what they could become.

 

[bennysflyers16]

Chlamydia isn’t really all that bad

The swab is

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Unfortunately, most that continue to talk & brag about our prospects... they ignore the idea/reality that these prospects are actually not as good as we think they are.

I didn't expect us to be a Cup contender this year, but I sure as hell expected us to have not allowed the 2nd most goals in the NHL eventhough we pumped our chest for the last 5-years that "we have the deepest defensive prospect pool in the league! We're gonna be so set on D."

IDK how many games you've watched this year, but the D is an unmitigated train wreck and we have Provorov, Ghost, Sanheim & Hagg (aka 4 of the 6 highly touted defensive prospects) in the lineup.

People can deflect that accountability away from the players and not entertain the idea that they're not as good as we thought in favor of pushing it to Hakstoll. I'm 100% on board with that idea, but Hextall won't fire the coaching staff. Because he's not gonna fire the coach and getting a new system for these players to play in, he is harming there development and is really damaging what they could become.

I understand the frustration because they're largely unwatchable, but it's been seven Games. Seven. Maybe don't make decisions on Ghostisbehere and Provorov with that as your focus.

 

[Curufinwe]

The lineup/roster from the Flyers game played three years ago (lines are from memory). Doesn't seem that clean to me.

Dallas Stars - Philadelphia Flyers - October 20th, 2015

Raffl-Giroux-Voracek
Read-Couturier-Simmonds
Schenn-Laughton-Gagner
VDV-Bellemare-White

MDZ-Streit
Schultz-Medvedev
Manning-Gudas

Vinny, Umberger, LSchenn scratched

MacDonald in the AHL

 

[Curufinwe]

I understand the frustration because they're largely unwatchable, but it's been seven Games. Seven. Maybe don't make decisions on Ghostisbehere and Provorov with that as your focus.

If only there was an extended period last season where Provorov and Ghost played together and were a fantastic top pairing.

 

[Striiker]

If only there was an extended period last season where Provorov and Ghost played together and were a fantastic top pairing.

Yeah, but if we look at that then we couldn’t be panicky and shortsighted.

How will we cry about things that aren’t even a problem if we look at facts?

 

[Amorgus]

I'm pretty sure I've seen some people mention Scott Gordon as part of the problem with the prospects. If so, how much blame falls in his shoulders?

 

[hatcher]

The lineup/roster from the Flyers game played three years ago (lines are from memory). Doesn't seem that clean to me.

Dallas Stars - Philadelphia Flyers - October 20th, 2015

Raffl-Giroux-Voracek
Read-Couturier-Simmonds
Schenn-Laughton-Gagner
VDV-Bellemare-White

MDZ-Streit
Schultz-Medvedev
Manning-Gudas

Vinny, Umberger, LSchenn scratched

MacDonald in the AHL

Better team.

 

[hatcher]

Unfortunately, most that continue to talk & brag about our prospects... they ignore the idea/reality that these prospects are actually not as good as we think they are.

I didn't expect us to be a Cup contender this year, but I sure as hell expected us to have not allowed the 2nd most goals in the NHL eventhough we pumped our chest for the last 5-years that "we have the deepest defensive prospect pool in the league! We're gonna be so set on D."

IDK how many games you've watched this year, but the D is an unmitigated train wreck and we have Provorov, Ghost, Sanheim & Hagg (aka 4 of the 6 highly touted defensive prospects) in the lineup.

People can deflect that accountability away from the players and not entertain the idea that they're not as good as we thought in favor of pushing it to Hakstoll. I'm 100% on board with that idea, but Hextall won't fire the coaching staff. Because he's not gonna fire the coach and getting a new system for these players to play in, he is harming there development and is really damaging what they could become.

Accountability is the word here that the top players don't have. Points but nothing else.

 

[Lindberg]

Better team.

No way hatcher.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

Unfortunately, most that continue to talk & brag about our prospects... they ignore the idea/reality that these prospects are actually not as good as we think they are.

I didn't expect us to be a Cup contender this year, but I sure as hell expected us to have not allowed the 2nd most goals in the NHL eventhough we pumped our chest for the last 5-years that "we have the deepest defensive prospect pool in the league! We're gonna be so set on D."

IDK how many games you've watched this year, but the D is an unmitigated train wreck and we have Provorov, Ghost, Sanheim & Hagg (aka 4 of the 6 highly touted defensive prospects) in the lineup.

People can deflect that accountability away from the players and not entertain the idea that they're not as good as we thought in favor of pushing it to Hakstoll. I'm 100% on board with that idea, but Hextall won't fire the coaching staff. Because he's not gonna fire the coach and getting a new system for these players to play in, he is harming there development and is really damaging what they could become.

I am as hard on this team's prospects as just about anyone on here but there is no denying that Hextall put the organization in a position of strength from a prospect standpoint. Now, they may not all pan out and obviously that is ultimately on him for making those draft choices, but the picks that he has made have been widely acknowledged not just by these boards but most in the hockey world as being one of the best pools in the league. I have no problem saying Hextall has done a good job as GM. I mean he literally is doing exactly what the vast majority of this board bitched and moaned about wanting Homer to do for a decade or however long he was GM. Now they are getting their wish and acting like something else should be happening, and it is the something else that I don't understand.

We don't want to waste money in UFA and we don't want to trade prospects for established players! Hextall hasn't done that. We want to hoarde draft picks and draft players that play a two way game! Hextall has done that. We want a coach that wasn't part of the "old boy's club" of recycled garbage! Hextall hired that guy. We don't want to rush our prospects to the NHL we want them to play when they are ready! Hextall isn't rushing anyone. This is what I mean when I say I don't understand what it is you want and why I say it sounds like what you really want is perfection and anything less is garbage.

 

[deadhead]

The lineup/roster from the Flyers game played three years ago (lines are from memory). Doesn't seem that clean to me.

Dallas Stars - Philadelphia Flyers - October 20th, 2015

Raffl-Giroux-Voracek
Read-Couturier-Simmonds
Schenn-Laughton-Gagner
VDV-Bellemare-White

MDZ-Streit
Schultz-Medvedev
Manning-Gudas

Vinny, Umberger, LSchenn scratched

MacDonald in the AHL

That' is one scary lineup. And Hakstol got to the playoffs with that team? Mason helped, but still . . .

Just look at the projected 2020-21 lineup and you'll realize all this pain will be worth it.
We've had 8 1st rd picks the last five years and all should probably end up better than say Zacha.
Not to mention a bunch of 2nd rd picks, some of whom should pan out (Hart, Allison, Ratcliffe).
Even ignoring the later round picks, 5 years of this kind of drafting sets you up for a decade of contention.

 

[deadhead]

I'm pretty sure I've seen some people mention Scott Gordon as part of the problem with the prospects. If so, how much blame falls in his shoulders?

What problem with prospects? Really.
Who has "failed" so far, Dove-McFalls, Salintri, Marody, all before they got to the AHL. Maybe Laberge, but that's a hard luck story.

Guys who've been in the AHL:
Cousins - having a decent career in Arizona
Weal - developed by LA, has raised his game a little
Lindblom - he's certainly developed nicely
Sanheim - his AHL seemed to help him last year
Laughton - his year in the AHL raised his game
Hagg - he flatlined his second year, took a step forward his 3rd year
Vorobyev - improved enough to win a job this fall
Knight - improved his defensive game and PK skills enough to win a job

Current AHL:
NAK - he's definitely improved offensively, his lack of discipline is troubling
Friedman - he improved last year
Myers - he improved last year

So who regressed? MV? Bardreau? Leier?
Now some players may not be developing as fast as we like, but is that coaching or just some players take longer than others?

 

[mdm815]

Am i the only one who thinks Sanheim has been a bright spot? His usage isn’t crazy rn but he passes the eye test. I think there’s still an above zero % chance that he turns out to be the best of the bunch. He’s made mistakes but a guy w that frame will take some time to adjust.

That said, i really think it’s time to move on from Hak and co. If i had my tinfoil hat on right now I’d almost say it looks as if the team isn’t trying for him anymore.

 

[Striiker]

The coaching situation is a disaster, but our problems outside of that are minimal.

Complaining about the prospects and roster is going too far. Especially if your complaint has anything to do with this tiny 7 game sample size.

 

[Striiker]

Am i the only one who thinks Sanheim has been a bright spot? His usage isn’t crazy rn but he passes the eye test. I think there’s still an above zero % chance that he turns out to be the best of the bunch. He’s made mistakes but a guy w that frame will take some time to adjust.

That said, i really think it’s time to move on from Hak and co. If i had my tinfoil hat on right now I’d almost say it looks as if the team isn’t trying for him anymore.

No, most people on here recognize how good Sanheim has been and how good he still could become.

It’s the typical vocal minority who are either unable to evaluate players or refuse to admit the truth.

 

[Amorgus]

What problem with prospects? Really.
Who has "failed" so far, Dove-McFalls, Salintri, Marody, all before they got to the AHL. Maybe Laberge, but that's a hard luck story.

Guys who've been in the AHL:
Cousins - having a decent career in Arizona
Weal - developed by LA, has raised his game a little
Lindblom - he's certainly developed nicely
Sanheim - his AHL seemed to help him last yar
Laughton - his year in the AHL raised his game
Hagg - he flatlined his second year, took a step forward his 3rd year
Vorobyev - improved enough to win a job this fall
Knight - improved his defensive game and PK skills enough to win a job

Current AHL:
NAK - he's definitely improved offensively, his lack of discipline is troubling
Friedman - he improved last year
Myers - he improved last year

So who regressed? MV? Bardreau? Leier?
Now some players may not be developing as fast as we like, but is that coaching or just some players take longer than others?

I honestly don't know since this is the closest I've followed the sport probably ever and there's so many arguments being thrown around on here that I don't always know who's to blame for what. I've just seen people bitching about Gordon once in a while so I thought that there could be problems with prospects not being properly prepared or forced into roles they're not made for due to the demands of a coach's rigid system. I obviously know you're on the side of the coaches but I'd like to see now if anyone on the other side of the fence has problems with the AHL development or is it just Hakstol that they think is mishandling kids.

EDIT: Progresswise, not like Jerry Sandusky.

 

[deadhead]

My problem is with blanket statements without substantiation.

"We never play our prospects" - we have 7 starters under 25 (6 if Misha is sent down, but maybe 8-9 by April)

"We marinate our prospects too long" - our rookies as a whole are no older than most teams around the league, only a few players make the NHL between ages 18-20, most who aren't top 20 picks don't make it until 22-24 years old.

"They're killing the progress of our prospects" - who?

The problem really comes down to dissatisfaction with the current team, and impatience.

Now a different question is whether Hextall should be shifting from accumulating assets to using them at this point, and how, and for whom? (Not Krazykat pie in the sky deals, but realistic deals that could actually be made at some point).

And I think with the talent that's been accumulated, trading some future picks would not be a problem at this point, especially 3rd rd and later. I wouldn't trade 1st rd picks for anything but under 25 NHL ready players, and I'm reluctant to trade 2nd rd picks (and I'd want Hextall to get teams to throw in late round picks the other way, given how well this team drafts).

 

[Jtown]

The swab is

I don’t know what that is. Nothing a bit of antibiotics won’t cure