Hextall. An amazing job.

[The Burdened]

Except that’s not at all true.

Getting mad about the coaching situation is completely valid, but to say we’re no closer is ridiculous. We didn’t have even close to this prospect pool or young core. We’re set up for the future nicely once we fix the coaching issue, which isn’t something we could say back then.

Quite simply, I don't think our prospect pool is half as good as some think. There's a lot of promise, but the best players on this team today are mostly the same players that were the best on this team when Hextall inherited it and he's done nothing to try and win with them.

I think a few are in denial that our team is struggling because our young players that we had hoped to be A1 contributors aren't taking the expected step forward. Some of that has to do with the coach (Hetxall's fault) but some of that has to do with the players.

Like, they're posters here right now who think Hextall doesn't need to pursue a Top 4 RHD because "nah breh Philipe Myers!" That's lunacy. Just wasting time waiting for somebody that may or may not ever arrive. I'm not saying trade Myers, but f*** try and improve our D for god's sakes and trade a body later if you have to make room cause Myers is too good.

IF Myers ever becomes an NHL player and IF Myers ever reaches his potential, Voracek & Giroux are going to be in the their mid 30's with Ghost & Couts close at 30. This is not the ideal timeline, lads.
The ideal timeline is that by the 2018-19 season we were ready to make some noise.

You write: We're set up for the future: and what future is that, lad? You think the foundation of this team is there for the making of a cup contender?
Maybe if Carter Hart is as good as advertised that's literally the only way.

 

[magnumpi]

It stinks that Giroux's career may very well go down similarly as that of Pat Lafontaine (minus the concussion hopefully)....

Nothing to show for Cup wise despite being a prolific scorer...unless he gets traded of course to a cup contender. How it usually works for ex Flyers

I'm hoping Giroux is like Lanny Mcdonald.
A top scorer then finally won the cup at the end of his career in Calgary 1989. that team was stacked.

Where is our Doug Gilmour, Theo Fleury, Al Mcginnis, phil Housley?
well maybe Courtier and Ghost

still need the Mcginnis and Fleury in that scenario

 

[Hurricane28]

It was an absolute abomination when Laperriere was retained after the shit show over the past few years with the PK. Something tells me they possibly think Sam Morin will be the magic potion to fix this PK. But the fact that Lappy is still behind the bench is mind boggling

 

[The Burdened]

It stinks that Giroux's career may very well go down similarly as that of Pat Lafontaine (minus the concussion hopefully)....

Nothing to show for Cup wise despite being a prolific scorer...unless he gets traded of course to a cup contender. How it usually works for ex Flyers

and ultimately that's the biggest part of my frustrations because I don't want to see G wear another teams uniform or win a cup somewhere else and I feel Hextall has wasted his (and Jake & Wayne) prime.. for what? For Morgan Frost? For Joel Farabee? For some jabroni named Wade Allison?

To me it absolutely sucks Hextall inherited Giroux, Voracek, Simmonds, Schenn, Couturier, and prospect Ghost and he looked at that and said "I need at minimum 5-years of draft picks (some years 2 1sts), and then additional years for development. Here, I'll even take on more capdumps because I have nothing but time apparently and my rosters spots aren't valuable cause I don't want to compete."
Dude. Weak.

I was so with Hextall and his vision up until the April of 2016. Sanheim looked like he could be top pair potential, GOAT 2015 draft with Provy & Konecny, Ghost was breaking out, Hextall had just pulled off the Lecavalier/Schenn double dump. Things were looking great. On top of the world, even.

It'll be 3-years later and I'm not as optimistic now as I was then :/

 

[magnumpi]

knew i was forgetting people on that 1989 calgary squad

mcrimmon, gary suter, niewendyke, joe mullen, gary roberts, hakaan loob

 

[The Madrigal]

Quite simply, I don't think our prospect pool is half as good as some think. There's a lot of promise, but the best players on this team today are mostly the same players that were the best on this team when Hextall inherited it and he's done nothing to try and win with them.

I think a few are in denial that our team is struggling because our young players that we had hoped to be A1 contributors aren't taking the expected step forward. Some of that has to do with the coach (Hetxall's fault) but some of that has to do with the players.

Like, they're posters here right now who think Hextall doesn't need to pursue a Top 4 RHD because "nah breh Philipe Myers!" That's lunacy. Just wasting time waiting for somebody that may or may not ever arrive. I'm not saying trade Myers, but **** try and improve our D for god's sakes and trade a body later if you have to make room cause Myers is too good.

IF Myers ever becomes an NHL player and IF Myers ever reaches his potential, Voracek & Giroux are going to be in the their mid 30's with Ghost & Couts close at 30. This is not the ideal timeline, lads.
The ideal timeline is that by the 2018-19 season we were ready to make some noise.

You write: We're set up for the future: and what future is that, lad? You think the foundation of this team is there for the making of a cup contender?
Maybe if Carter Hart is as good as advertised that's literally the only way.

 

[Garbage Goal]

Quite simply, I don't think our prospect pool is half as good as some think. There's a lot of promise, but the best players on this team today are mostly the same players that were the best on this team when Hextall inherited it and he's done nothing to try and win with them.

I think a few are in denial that our team is struggling because our young players that we had hoped to be A1 contributors aren't taking the expected step forward. Some of that has to do with the coach (Hetxall's fault) but some of that has to do with the players.

Like, they're posters here right now who think Hextall doesn't need to pursue a Top 4 RHD because "nah breh Philipe Myers!" That's lunacy. Just wasting time waiting for somebody that may or may not ever arrive. I'm not saying trade Myers, but **** try and improve our D for god's sakes and trade a body later if you have to make room cause Myers is too good.

IF Myers ever becomes an NHL player and IF Myers ever reaches his potential, Voracek & Giroux are going to be in the their mid 30's with Ghost & Couts close at 30. This is not the ideal timeline, lads.
The ideal timeline is that by the 2018-19 season we were ready to make some noise.

You write: We're set up for the future: and what future is that, lad? You think the foundation of this team is there for the making of a cup contender?
Maybe if Carter Hart is as good as advertised that's literally the only way.

I think you're both a bit right. However, teams have won with less talent and even going by last year, discounting the youth we have, there's enough elite talent to win a Cup under the right systems with the right coaches. On the other hand, our prospects might be a tad overrated. Only Konecny seems to have displayed dynamic star talent so far, to me at least. Patrick seems to have the upside of a 2C if he can stay healthy, Sanheim I have a hard time imagining being more than a second pairing anchor if all the stars align. In fairness though, because of our coach, we really haven't seen any of our young players get a chance to shine or utilize their skills to the max.

 

[dats81]

Somehow every time I'm reading the title of this thread these days, it feels like adding fuel to the fire.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Except that’s not at all true.

Getting mad about the coaching situation is completely valid, but to say we’re no closer is ridiculous. We didn’t have even close to this prospect pool or young core. We’re set up for the future nicely once we fix the coaching issue, which isn’t something we could say back then.

Absolutely.

The idea that we're not any closer is silly. Homer brought us to a final, but that was after he neutered our prospect system...thank God the GhostBear made it out of there as an unlikely victory, but otherwise it was pretty grim.

Get rid of the coach and add a major gun this offseason then we'll be fine. There are a hell of a lot less problems with the organization now than there was then.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Quite simply, I don't think our prospect pool is half as good as some think. There's a lot of promise, but the best players on this team today are mostly the same players that were the best on this team when Hextall inherited it and he's done nothing to try and win with them.

And this is the summary of why you're frustrated: you don't get that it's been a rebuild essentially and that rebuild isn't quite finished.

That encapsulates many fans' frustrations...Flyers fans are NOT patient and I don't think we've ever been -- we've been spoiled with Ed Snider as the owner and a nearly unlimited budget (pre-cap) and utilizing the hell out of the LTIR (post-cap) to use as much as possible. For once, we have a GM at the helm utilizing extreme rebuild patience and people are losing their minds like Kanye West up in here.

It's like a fun sociology experiment watching many of y'all freak out about this.

But I have to throw in a P.S.: can't be all overdramatic and say Hexy hasn't done anything to win when that's a flat out exaggeration...'member the JVR signing? I member. I member the Weise signing (although it ended up being a dud, which no one saw coming) meant to help. Don't get me wrong -- he hasn't tried hard to go for the gold, but it's clear he's been a progressive thinker for this team's roster going forward and he doesn't actively remove good pieces (except Schenn, who gave us a ton of value in return).

You write: We're set up for the future: and what future is that, lad? You think the foundation of this team is there for the making of a cup contender?
Maybe if Carter Hart is as good as advertised that's literally the only way.

We absolutely have the foundation of a Cup contender. Let's say it takes 2 more years for all the prospects to catch up (which is generous)...G is 32, Jake is 31, Coots is 27 and Simmonds is 32 (not that I think he'll be here, but let's just say)...

All prospects are firing with vets who will still be able to play in G, Jake, Coots and Simmer.

That doesn't sound like a contender? (IF the prospects pan out, which some HAVE to -- they can't all fail).

 

[The Burdened]

And this is the summary of why you're frustrated: you don't get that it's been a rebuild essentially and that rebuild isn't quite finished.

You don't at all see the problem with that hes had 5-years to make his imprint on this team and his only true impact player is Ivan Provorov?

We spend heavy draft capital in defense, then they say

"We gotta get better on the back end. Defense & goalies wins championships build from the net out. Only way is thru the draft. Defenders historically take anywhere up to 5-years to develop! What? It's not relevant that Valimaki & Jokiharju were drafted last year and they've already shown more than Sanheim & Morin have in 4-years. Oh? Chelowski & Chychrun? yeah, those guys who were taken around where I made that smart Rubstov pick. You mean they're already contributing in top 4 roles when healthy for their teams and they were drafted years after my much better picks?

It doesn't matter that players are making it and thriving in the NHL younger and younger and development and scouting has never been better. We're taking our time just because. We need time. Time."

It's s self-fulfilling prophecy.

In the meantime as we wait for Travis Sanheim to somehow magically become top pair, Morin magically becomes Pronger in the 2019-20 season fresh off an injury, and Myers magically becomes that coveted Top RHD we've needed... our defense is still trash and we're bleeding goals. Oh that's the goalie's fault? Good thing Hextall didn't hire the goalie.

BTW a p good signal to our rebuild being damn near completion was Hextall throwing a Homer amount of money at a 30-year old winger.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

You don't at all see the problem with that hes had 5-years to make his imprint on this team and his only true impact player is Ivan Provorv?

BTW a p good signal to our rebuild being damn near complete was Hextall throwing a Homer amount of money at a 30-year old winger.

You're just proving my point --- legitimate rebuilds take a long time dude when the prospect system was nearly depleted upon a GM's arrival. A top prospect here or there may make the roster right out of draft or a year after, but MANY take yearssssssss. This isn't a shock that it's taking many years for a group of prospects to become impact players. You have to account for their draft year juniors time, maybe a season or two in AHL, then another season or two in NHL to get used to roles there (maybe even longer). Agreed?

And on your second point -- we're completely on the same page...the massive rebuild phase is damn near complete but it is NOT complete yet. Regardless, Hexy is making strategic signings to improve the team now and future while not butchering it or locking it up in contracts likely to hurt them (JVR can be stolen in Expansion when he's older).

 

[The Burdened]

You're just proving my point --- legitimate rebuilds take a long time dude when the prospect system was nearly depleted upon a GM's arrival. A top prospect here or there may make the roster right out of draft or a year after, but MANY take yearssssssss. This isn't a shock that it's taking many years for a group of prospects to become impact players. You have to account for their draft year juniors time, maybe a season or two in AHL, then another season or two in NHL to get used to roles there (maybe even longer). Agreed?

The way it used to be, prospects took MANY yeaaaaarrrrs.

Not so much the case now tbh. It's not one size fits all obv, but generally if you're not in the NHL contributing in your Draft +2 season, you're behind. Not a bust obv, but Training & development has gotten better and players are seemingly coming in younger.

Unless you're doing a college route, if you're not there by Draft+2, you're not ready/not good enough (yet). At the very least, your odds of becoming an impact player are decreased. You can spin that as saying "nah, we're taking time to slow marinate etc etc" but I'd like to think our org can draft players that aren't all projects and aren't 5-years away, ya know? Specially for 1st round picks. Take all the time for other rounds, but 1st round stakes are raised.

IMO I get the sense some don't adjust their expectations for prospect based on performance. They get it in their head that player ____ is gonna be awesome no matter what just because they've already made it up their mind, and then they look for any glimmer of hope or positive to validate that thought.

There are still people that think Sanheim is going to show that Top Pair form we thought he had in his draft + 1 year where he looked like an animal. Best case scenario is he becomes rock solid Top 4. Does he reach it? IDK I hope so but it's not for sure.

Same with Morgan Frost everybody had him penciled in to the 3c role ez pz this year and he's eventually gonna be the 1c for this team for generations to come. He got cut so fast you didn't even know he was in camp.
Given the hype of "OMG steal of the draft Hextall did it again!" there should be a little concern that Frost wasn't even remotely close to making the team. Will he make it next year? Maybe... but maybe not. If not, that sucks that we traded away cost controlled Schenn for futures that were 3-5 years away and may never pan out. Ron didn't even bother looking for a 3c in UFA because Frost was gonna have every chance to win it. Now we have Vorobyev out there pretending to be 3c but bless his heart he's punching above weight.

Look at Lindblom being touted last year as the next great Flyers winger and he's gonna take Schenn's spot in the lineup and it's gonna be awesome... only problem is he didn't make the team.
I was mad at Hak for that call last year, but, in his time up here, he hasn't really shown anything much so how bad of a call was it really? idk I hope Lindblom scores a hat trick against Jersey to shut me up.

 

[BillDineen]

Hextall's "don't rush or they may be ruined" mantra has to eventually bite them in the ass with a deep prospect pool. A young team is the reward from drafting well. If you draft D high over a number of drafts, you can't then be afraid of "the youngest d I have ever seen".

Some prospects should be given shots early, with a lot of responsibility and left to sink or swim. They don't need all to pan out. Sanheim not getting PP2 time until now and left behind TJ in Allentown? Hagg/Morin getting 1 game two years ago when they were out of the playoffs? Voro should be with skilled guys all year. NAK should be getting a shot now. Myers would be playing on most teams right now. Friedman certainly outplayed AMac and Folin in camp. Is there really any f***ing "risk" to having him get a shot right now over Folin?

There were no (real) rookies playing last night for f***s sake. How many injuries do they need? How many of the forward prospects will get a real shot in the coming years? One a year on average? Are they still going to insist on the same type of 4th line? Left to this fake adversity bullshit where they are treated differently than terrible hockey players just because they are "young"?

Lacyznski and Allison will be 22 next year and if signed, you know they will be in the AHL for a full year. If I was their agent I would be saying wait for the UFA option after senior year.

 

[The Madrigal]

The way it used to be, prospects took MANY yeaaaaarrrrs.

Not so much the case now tbh. It's not one size fits all obv, but generally if you're not in the NHL contributing in your Draft +2 season, you're behind. Not a bust obv, but Training & development has gotten better and players are seemingly coming in younger.

Unless you're doing a college route, if you're not there by Draft+2, you're not ready/not good enough (yet). At the very least, your odds of becoming an impact player are decreased. You can spin that as saying "nah, we're taking time to slow marinate etc etc" but I'd like to think our org can draft players that aren't all projects and aren't 5-years away, ya know? Specially for 1st round picks. Take all the time for other rounds, but 1st round stakes are raised.

IMO I get the sense some don't adjust their expectations for prospect based on performance. They get it in their head that player ____ is gonna be awesome no matter what just because they've already made it up their mind, and then they look for any glimmer of hope or positive to validate that thought.

There are still people that think Sanheim is going to show that Top Pair form we thought he had in his draft + 1 year where he looked like an animal. Best case scenario is he becomes rock solid Top 4. Does he reach it? IDK I hope so but it's not for sure.

Same with Morgan Frost everybody had him penciled in to the 3c role ez pz this year and he's eventually gonna be the 1c for this team for generations to come. He got cut so fast you didn't even know he was in camp.
Given the hype of "OMG steal of the draft Hextall did it again!" there should be a little concern that Frost wasn't even remotely close to making the team. Will he make it next year? Maybe... but maybe not. If not, that sucks that we traded away cost controlled Schenn for futures that were 3-5 years away and may never pan out. Ron didn't even bother looking for a 3c in UFA because Frost was gonna have every chance to win it. Now we have Vorobyev out there pretending to be 3c but bless his heart he's punching above weight.

Look at Lindblom being touted last year as the next great Flyers winger and he's gonna take Schenn's spot in the lineup and it's gonna be awesome... only problem is he didn't make the team.
I was mad at Hak for that call last year, but, in his time up here, he hasn't really shown anything much so how bad of a call was it really? idk I hope Lindblom scores a hat trick against Jersey to shut me up.

I was told LAST summer that Lindblom was ready to be a top line winger. Fast forward a little bit over a year and he has 4 goals and 8 points in 34 career games if you include 4 playoff games.

I was told this summer that the Flyers didn't need to add a top four D because Sanheim was ready for that role and Phil Myers was the second pairing RHD this team has needed. Sanheim is starting to look like a bust and Myers showed that he wasn't ready in camp.

I was also told this entire summer that Sam Morin isn't a bust even though he was the 11th overall pick in 2013 and has played in a whopping 3 NHL games FIVE years after being drafted. Almost every single first round pick taken AFTER Morin has played in several NHL games, and a few guys have already established themselves as good NHL players. Max Domi, Josh Morrissey, Ryan Pulock, Nikita Zadorov, Anthony Mantha, Andre Burakovsky, Shea Theodore, were all taken in the first round after morin.

These are just a few examples but I could go on and on. I think there are a lot problems in this organization which have contributed to some of the prospects/young players not thriving but at the end of the day some people just need to realize that maybe the Flyers prospect isn't anywhere near as great as they thought it was. As you said, you can look around the league and find several examples of guys who are 20 or 21 years old who are playing key roles for good teams and excelling.

 

[Jtown]

Hextall's "don't rush or they may be ruined" mantra has to eventually bite them in the ass with a deep prospect pool. A young team is the reward from drafting well. If you draft D high over a number of drafts, you can't then be afraid of "the youngest d I have ever seen".

Some prospects should be given shots early, with a lot of responsibility and left to sink or swim. They don't need all to pan out. Sanheim not getting PP2 time until now and left behind TJ in Allentown? Hagg/Morin getting 1 game two years ago when they were out of the playoffs? Voro should be with skilled guys all year. NAK should be getting a shot now. Myers would be playing on most teams right now. Friedman certainly outplayed AMac and Folin in camp. Is there really any ****ing "risk" to having him get a shot right now over Folin?

There were no (real) rookies playing last night for ****s sake. How many injuries do they need? How many of the forward prospects will get a real shot in the coming years? One a year on average? Are they still going to insist on the same type of 4th line? Left to this fake adversity bull**** where they are treated differently than terrible hockey players just because they are "young"?

Lacyznski and Allison will be 22 next year and if signed, you know they will be in the AHL for a full year. If I was their agent I would be saying wait for the UFA option after senior year.

I have serious doubts about our ability to sign Lacyznski and Allison.

 

[Jtown]

Hextall played during the Clarke era. An Era of Deep Pockets, Big Time Free Agents, Spur of the moment Trades and Reluctance to draft any Talent. The coaches we went through after murray was just a whirlwind.

After Hextall saw the approach taken by the kings of drafting and developing I think he kind of wanted to bring a new philosophy to Philly. I don't blame him, the clarke method and homer method while almost working did not work. Hexy has this patient , draft approach which is fine and refreshing. I love the amount of young talent and assets he has added to the organization especially at the Goal tending position. Hexy had done so many un flyer things such as draft defenseman over and over again, draft Russians and this past year draft outside of the chl. The Hiring of Hakstol was another out of box approach. Hak was the first college coach to be hired out of college into the nhl in a very long time. Hexy in many ways needs to be applauded for broadening the flyers philosophy and approach in this new Salary cap era. Some of his trades i questioned , but other have been downright brilliant at shedding cap.

The Ultimate problem I have with him is this. We have a roster with two different directions. We have an older group of Forwards that are clearly win now guys in Giroux, Simmer and Voracek. Then we have a 5 year gap between the next group of young studs in Coots and Ghost. Hexy wants to keep the vets so we win now. But the inexperience and inconsistent youth keeps us from winning at higher levels. So at the end you get what we have had these past 3 years. A very elite group up top, followed by a rather inconsistent group behind that. The hope is that by the time the younger group has extablished itself we will still have 2 good years out of Giroux and Voracek to lead us. I think that is a Gamble not worth taking. Our window is not from 2018- 2022. Our window is 2o22- 2030. That is the window that Hexy needs to focus on. I love Giroux and Voracek. Giroux is probably my all time favorite flyer and it's by a lot. But we will never win a cup with him on his current deal. So instead of having his elite player go to waste , trade him. A guy like that would bring in a coup of assets. assets that we can then use to strengthen that window of 2022-2030. Or he could go with the other option and that is to strengthen the 2018-2022 window. You do that by trading frost, hart, farabee, O'brien , etc etc and getting established talent. And now you are loaded up to win with giroux and Voracek. But Hexy is trying to do both, and if you play for both windows you won't win.

In the Cap Era , you have to go for it. And Hexy has still not decided what Window he wants to win with. This inconsisent up and down is going to occur over the next 5 years as we slowly integrate the young talent onto the roster, because that is how young players play. If Hexy is fine with that than so am I , but don't let giroux and voracek fade away for nothing. Those are extremely valuable assets that could help a team like Boston, or LA or CBJ or Anaheim, even Vegas. If you traded giroux to vegas you would get back cody glass and Nicolas Hague easily. If you Traded Voracek to LA you might be able to get Vilardi if you sweeten the pot a bit or if you take back cap space.

Now imagine that scenario, going forward with a center pool of couts, glass, vilardi, frost, patrick . Has any team in the history of hockey ever had such a promising pool of young centers in their organization? I am just spitballing here but this is the reality we face. We are not winning this year, and we are not winning it next year. So why even have these great players efforts go to waste when they could bring back valuable prospects to add to our young core , the core that we are going to win with.

 

[Tripod]

 

[dats81]

This organization doesn't need Vilardi or any more centers for that fact.
If they trade any Veteran forwards I hope it's for a proven defenseman.

 

[Jtown]

This organization doesn't need Vilardi or any more centers for that fact.
If they trade any Veteran forwards I hope it's for a proven defenseman.

like i said, just spitballing. Don't get hung up on the actual transaction, instead comment on the philosophical change in approach.

 

[Delete99991]

Let the record show that Mr Genius, Mr Asset Collector, grabbed Pickard as a stopgap #2 merely because he was free and easy rather than actually go out and try to acquire someone they could compete with.

At least last year, he took a shot on Mrazek.

Absolutely awful by Hextall.

 

[bb12]

Woke up. Hakstol and Lappy still here. Until he changes coaches. He is doing a bad job.

We don't have a bad team this year. Bad goaltending yes but not a bad overall team. Not to be this bad that's for sure.

 

[Striiker]

Quite simply, I don't think our prospect pool is half as good as some think. There's a lot of promise, but the best players on this team today are mostly the same players that were the best on this team when Hextall inherited it and he's done nothing to try and win with them.

I think a few are in denial that our team is struggling because our young players that we had hoped to be A1 contributors aren't taking the expected step forward. Some of that has to do with the coach (Hetxall's fault) but some of that has to do with the players.

Like, they're posters here right now who think Hextall doesn't need to pursue a Top 4 RHD because "nah breh Philipe Myers!" That's lunacy. Just wasting time waiting for somebody that may or may not ever arrive. I'm not saying trade Myers, but **** try and improve our D for god's sakes and trade a body later if you have to make room cause Myers is too good.

IF Myers ever becomes an NHL player and IF Myers ever reaches his potential, Voracek & Giroux are going to be in the their mid 30's with Ghost & Couts close at 30. This is not the ideal timeline, lads.
The ideal timeline is that by the 2018-19 season we were ready to make some noise.

You write: We're set up for the future: and what future is that, lad? You think the foundation of this team is there for the making of a cup contender?
Maybe if Carter Hart is as good as advertised that's literally the only way.

The players Hextall added are far from their primes and are far from finished products. You can say “it’s been 5 years” but it’s not as if all these prospects were drafted then and have had 5 years of development already... some just got hear a year or two ago. I mean, Giroux wasn’t even in the NHL when he was their age, so let’s not pretend we’ve seen the best of what they can offer or that they won’t keep improving.

Like you said, part of that is the coach and how they’re being misused, but don’t forget how young they are. You can’t compare someone like Patrick to someone like Matthews and be disappointed he isn’t mirroring the same instant success. You have to realize this stuff takes time. Being down on the coaching staff and management makes sense, but being down on the young guys and prospects is just being too reactionary and short-sighted. Nothing happening right now with them is abnormal or worrying. Just normal player development, slowed by a coach who is doing everything in his power to suppress the good parts of their games.... and it’s working.

We’ve seen flashes of greatness from the young guys and as they get older and more experienced, that level of play will be more consistent, especially if they start being used correctly. A great example is TK last year. Remember in the beginning of the year when people were down on him because he wasn’t producing and wasn’t looking great (you can find old threads about it)? Then compare that to the second half of the year when he finally got used properly. Or, alternatively, just look at the age Couturier broke out offensively. Sometimes it takes some time.

When things aren’t going well it’s easy to forget how good they are and why they were rated so highly as prospects, but the talent didn't disappear and there’s no cause for concern yet. Way too early to worry about the young guys.

 

[Icedog2735]

I disagree for several reasons. First of all, they elected to sign Brian Elliott and re-sign Michal Neuvirth which were both mistakes, period. The second and third reason I disagree is in response to those who use the excuse "they were/are just the place holders for Carter Hart. There are no guarantees that Carter Hart is going to be great or even good for one thing. Also, even IF he has a great season in the AHL, to just hand the reigns over to him fully as a 21 year old next year with this coach and defense would be irresponsible and set him up to fail. This position should have been improved over the last couple of years and they need to bring someone in who is better than the current bums who can share the load with Hart early in his career and take some of the pressure off of him.

No, disagreement there but who were they supposed to sign/trade for instead? Your final point, to me, also doesn't hold up. If the coach and the defense are the problem then that is something that needs to be addressed. It isn't however a reason to not give a chance to a prospect who deserves a spot on the team, assuming he has a great AHL season like you said. I'm just curious about what the plan should have been with the goaltending or should be with the goaltending from all of the detractors saying Hextall has done little to address it. What goaltenders should be here who aren't?

 

[tucson83]

You don't at all see the problem with that hes had 5-years to make his imprint on this team and his only true impact player is Ivan Provorov?

We spend heavy draft capital in defense, then they say

"We gotta get better on the back end. Defense & goalies wins championships build from the net out. Only way is thru the draft. Defenders historically take anywhere up to 5-years to develop! What? It's not relevant that Valimaki & Jokiharju were drafted last year and they've already shown more than Sanheim & Morin have in 4-years. Oh? Chelowski & Chychrun? yeah, those guys who were taken around where I made that smart Rubstov pick. You mean they're already contributing in top 4 roles when healthy for their teams and they were drafted years after my much better picks?

It doesn't matter that players are making it and thriving in the NHL younger and younger and development and scouting has never been better. We're taking our time just because. We need time. Time."

It's s self-fulfilling prophecy.

In the meantime as we wait for Travis Sanheim to somehow magically become top pair, Morin magically becomes Pronger in the 2019-20 season fresh off an injury, and Myers magically becomes that coveted Top RHD we've needed... our defense is still trash and we're bleeding goals. Oh that's the goalie's fault? Good thing Hextall didn't hire the goalie.

BTW a p good signal to our rebuild being damn near completion was Hextall throwing a Homer amount of money at a 30-year old winger.

im going to say this hextall should just have traded giroux, jake, and simmonds the minute he took over and let the younger players play, i mean if it works out, that's great, if not we could have had a top 5 pick and maybe the team will get better from there. i mean you look at the teams that have gotten younger have gotten better, even ottawa and montreal, i mean it's surprising.