Player Discussion Henrik Lundqvist: Part III
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Irishguy42
Mr. Preachy
Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhh....between now and the end of the second buyout window (assuming we get there) I think there's a good chance we get another oneJust realized there is a good possibility that this is last version of this thread, ever.
haohmaru
boomshakalaka
Sad as it may be, this is likely going to end up as a buyout and no takers who are contending willing to give him a 1/1A shot. And then retirement.
As far as Georgiev's value not likely to increase next year I'd say that the jury is out on that. Shesterkin has to prove he's a durable/dependable #1 and he certainly, after all of 12 games, has NOT proven that at all. If gets injured and AG is stepping in and has an extended run a la Cam Talbot then his value can certainly increase.
As far as Georgiev's value not likely to increase next year I'd say that the jury is out on that. Shesterkin has to prove he's a durable/dependable #1 and he certainly, after all of 12 games, has NOT proven that at all. If gets injured and AG is stepping in and has an extended run a la Cam Talbot then his value can certainly increase.
haohmaru
boomshakalaka
Just realized there is a good possibility that this is last version of this thread, ever.
If Lias freaking Andersson is worth IV pages then Henrik f***ing Lundqvist better be. Holy crap.
broadwayblue
Registered User
Just realized there is a good possibility that this is last version of this thread, ever.
I was playing NHL '20 with my daughter recently (as the Rangers obviously) and Hank was making save after save...and she says to me "Our goalie is like the best goalie ever!" I smiled at her and said, yes, he is. Then I was a little sad thinking this is the last time he will be on the starting roster in the video game series I've played the most in my life.
Hank forcing the team to buy him out puts him in the most advantageous position. He can sign on the cheap with any team that might want him. He also gets to keep his legacy in tact by saying the Rangers were the bad guys. Still gets some of the money he's owed.
That being said, I just don't see anyone lining up to sign him even for 1 year at $1m. If he forces a buy out and then retires that's a pretty ugly ending.
That being said, I just don't see anyone lining up to sign him even for 1 year at $1m. If he forces a buy out and then retires that's a pretty ugly ending.
and 99 others
la la la la la la la... a little bit alexis
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just be glad you get to use Shesterkin for the next however many years. Beats the days of nhl 2004 where it was a tandem of mike dunham/jussi markkanen
NYSPORTS
back afta dis. . .
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if you scroll down the FA list below the (blank) rating you may find him to sign.
GAGLine
Registered User
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Regarding buying out Hank, people need to understand that we may not have a choice.
We can't afford to bring back both ADA and Strome, and still fill out the rest of the roster. Not unless they both take significantly less than expected. We need to clear cap space.
Laf is going to cost us 3.775 mil against the cap. As a 1st overall pick, he will get max bonuses, and we are already exceeding the bonus cushion due to other players. CapFriendly doesn't allow me to add bonuses when creating a player, so I had to add it to his cap hit.
The bonus cushion is 6.1125 mil. Every bonus dollar beyond that will reduce our available cap space. Only the bonuses that are actually earned will end up counting against the cap, but on day 1, we have to be compliant based on the total potential bonuses. The only caveat here is that Kakko likely has bonus money tied to winning the Calder, which he can no longer do, so his potential bonus money is likely less that the 2.65 mil listed on CapFriendly. How much less? I don't know.
Even if Kakko's bonuses drop by 1.1 mil (it probably won't be that much), that still leaves us about 10.6 mil to sign 5 players, including Strome and ADA.
What we do with Georgiev really has no bearing on what we do with Lundqvist. We could very well end up buying out Hank, trading Georgiev, and signing a cheap backup for 2 years to satisfy the expansion requirements.
The cap space has to come from somewhere. Buying out Smith or Staal may happen, but neither clears as much cap as buying out Hank.
We can't afford to bring back both ADA and Strome, and still fill out the rest of the roster. Not unless they both take significantly less than expected. We need to clear cap space.
Laf is going to cost us 3.775 mil against the cap. As a 1st overall pick, he will get max bonuses, and we are already exceeding the bonus cushion due to other players. CapFriendly doesn't allow me to add bonuses when creating a player, so I had to add it to his cap hit.
The bonus cushion is 6.1125 mil. Every bonus dollar beyond that will reduce our available cap space. Only the bonuses that are actually earned will end up counting against the cap, but on day 1, we have to be compliant based on the total potential bonuses. The only caveat here is that Kakko likely has bonus money tied to winning the Calder, which he can no longer do, so his potential bonus money is likely less that the 2.65 mil listed on CapFriendly. How much less? I don't know.
Even if Kakko's bonuses drop by 1.1 mil (it probably won't be that much), that still leaves us about 10.6 mil to sign 5 players, including Strome and ADA.
What we do with Georgiev really has no bearing on what we do with Lundqvist. We could very well end up buying out Hank, trading Georgiev, and signing a cheap backup for 2 years to satisfy the expansion requirements.
The cap space has to come from somewhere. Buying out Smith or Staal may happen, but neither clears as much cap as buying out Hank.
Irishguy42
Mr. Preachy
Bonuses/rollover are vastly overblown by every fanbase, I swear. It's not going to make a difference. I'd be shocked if NYR fill out the cushion.
As for a Hank buyout giving more salary space, it really won't. Not enough to be a difference maker. If you buyout Hank in favor of keeping Georgiev, you have to consider that Georgiev's extension is going to eat up most of the saved space from a Hank buyout anyway. Enough to not make a sizable difference cap-wise.
Same goes for Staal/Smith since buying out one of them will just make room for someone making league minimum, and again, the cap gains are basically negligible. In all three of these buyout scenarios, including what the player replacements would be, you're basically looking at $1M in cap saved, which...yeah it's something I guess, but it's not significant enough to make sense when you look at the bigger picture, even with the flat cap for the next few years. It's not enough savings to make a buyout even logical
If the team wants a bunch of tangible cap space, it won't be from a Hank buyout. It will be from moving on from Strome or DeAngelo or even someone that we're not thinking of, which is fine (pending return, of course).
Trade Georgiev, who is never going to be more valuable than he is right now, and just sit on the Staal/Smith/Hank contracts for one more year.
As for a Hank buyout giving more salary space, it really won't. Not enough to be a difference maker. If you buyout Hank in favor of keeping Georgiev, you have to consider that Georgiev's extension is going to eat up most of the saved space from a Hank buyout anyway. Enough to not make a sizable difference cap-wise.
Same goes for Staal/Smith since buying out one of them will just make room for someone making league minimum, and again, the cap gains are basically negligible. In all three of these buyout scenarios, including what the player replacements would be, you're basically looking at $1M in cap saved, which...yeah it's something I guess, but it's not significant enough to make sense when you look at the bigger picture, even with the flat cap for the next few years. It's not enough savings to make a buyout even logical
If the team wants a bunch of tangible cap space, it won't be from a Hank buyout. It will be from moving on from Strome or DeAngelo or even someone that we're not thinking of, which is fine (pending return, of course).
Trade Georgiev, who is never going to be more valuable than he is right now, and just sit on the Staal/Smith/Hank contracts for one more year.
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haohmaru
boomshakalaka
Exactly where I'm coming from. Buying out Lundqvist and then having to sign Georgiev frees up 1-1.5M this year and costs you 1.5M next year. Have to hope that one of Smith, Staal, or Lundqvist retires - there's no reason to buy any of them out and continue this constant dead-space issue this team always seems to have.
problem is goalie market is flooded. What if a team offers you a mid to late third rounder for Georgiev? I mean adding him to trade up in the First round sounds great but Idk if a team does that
haohmaru
boomshakalaka
I think if Georgiev goes anywhere it'll be part of a package - it won't be straight up for a middling pick, IMHO.
Why are we so intent on re-signing Strome again? He had a good year. He built on the end of the previous year. But I don't think I've seen anyone who has viewed him as part of the long-term plan. The team isn't competing for the Cup this year. Give Chytil a year long tryout at 2c. Let him make his mistakes and play with top wingers. If he ends up showing that he's a 3c, fine. Then next summer, when we have the cap room, the team can shop for a 2c. If he does show that he's a 2c, we're going to be awfully glad that we don't have Strome's large/long cap hit on our books.
Again, if Strome seemed like part of the long-term plan, maybe you sign him, but nobody really seems to think that way about him. Move him for the best return. Give Chytil a long leash on the 2nd line. Let Howden and Barron fight it out over the 3rd and 4th line spots, and ride out the bad contracts naturally.
I just don't see any benefit in handcuffing the team beyond 2021 in order to...do what, exactly in this pandemic year?
Again, if Strome seemed like part of the long-term plan, maybe you sign him, but nobody really seems to think that way about him. Move him for the best return. Give Chytil a long leash on the 2nd line. Let Howden and Barron fight it out over the 3rd and 4th line spots, and ride out the bad contracts naturally.
I just don't see any benefit in handcuffing the team beyond 2021 in order to...do what, exactly in this pandemic year?
Brooklyn Rangers Fan
Change is good.
Well, I don't think anyone is proposing trying to lock him up to a 5-7 year deal. He's an asset that needs to be managed appropriately – whether that means traded this offseason or signed to a short term deal for further evaluation and then a subsequent trade/re-signing/exposure to expansion 1-2 years from now is still up for debate.
Irishguy42
Mr. Preachy
If they're trading Geo by himself and a third round pick is the best you can get, then go for it.
Goalie trade values are wild, so I wouldn't go in with any expectations.
But I imagine they'll try a package of some sort. They'll explore all options. But if the best is a middling pick, then you just do that.
Crease
Chief Justice of the HFNYR Court
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Have to think there is something keeping Hank from dispelling the speculation that he’s done as a Ranger. Either the Rangers have asked him to lay low until after they move Georgiev, Hank is doing his own soul searching, or something else.
RangerBoy
Dolan sucks!!!
Hello everyone. I hope everyone is doing good during this pandemic.
The Rangers buying out Henrik Lundqvist opens up $3M in cap space for 2020-21. That $3M can pay both Alexander Georgiev and Brendan Lemieux. $1.5M-$1.75M for Georgiev. $1.25M for Lemieux. Two year bridge contract for Georgiev who is three years away from group III. The schedule will be crazy next season. The Rangers will need more than one goaltender. Igor Shesterkin had some injuries last season. He hurt his ankle in Winnipeg. The car accident was a freak thing but he did miss time. Broken rib. Fractured rib. He hurt his groin right before the Carolina series.
Hank can go make his own deal somewhere else. Maybe he retires if he can't find a spot. I would not hold it against him if the Rangers bought him out and he retired after not finding another team. The Rangers bought out Chris Drury in 2011 when his knee injury ended his career. He couldn't play anymore. He did not retire. The Rangers bought him out. No hard feelings. Jeff Gorton hired Drury four years later as a player development guy. Promoted to AGM one year later.
The Rangers do not have that much flexibility. The cap is flat at $81.5M. The cap went up $2M for 19-20. The Rangers don't have much money coming off the books. The Rangers had $9.65M in expiring contacts coming off the books in 2019-20 with Kevin Hayes at $5.175M and Mats Zuccarello at $4.5M. The Rangers have numerous group II's with arbitration rights to sign this off-season. Ryan Strome and Tony DeAngelo will come in at $9M-$10M combined. Short term deals. Strome is one year away from Group III. Both of them will file for salary arbitration. Both of them are coming off the best seasons of their careers.
The summer or fall of 2021 is when the Rangers will have more flexibility to change the roster. The Marc Staal contract at $5.7M comes off the books. The Brendan Smith contract at $4.35M comes off the books. That is a combined $10,0500,000.
The Kevin Shattenkirk buyout drops by $4.65M. $6,083,000 to $1,433,333 in 21-22. The Lundqvist buyout drops by $4M. $5.5m to $1.5M. The Ryan Spooner buyout of $300,000 comes off the books.
That is $19M coming off the books for 21-22. The Rangers can use that money for the performance bonuses in 20-21. The Rangers will not have room for Alexis Lafrenière bonuses. Kaapo Kakko. Shesterkin has $2.85M in bonuses. Roll them over. Shesterkin is up for a new deal that off-season. Arbitration eligible.
The Rangers do not have much money remaining after paying their own players. The Rangers already have a ton of buyout money on the books. Fill out the roster. Leave money to operate the team to call-ups. There might not be an AHL season in 20-21. Their season is supposed to start on December 4. There will not be a vaccine ready by then. It will take time for mass distribution of a vaccine say it comes on the market in January.
It was good checking in to share my thoughts. Everyone take care. Wear a mask.
The Rangers buying out Henrik Lundqvist opens up $3M in cap space for 2020-21. That $3M can pay both Alexander Georgiev and Brendan Lemieux. $1.5M-$1.75M for Georgiev. $1.25M for Lemieux. Two year bridge contract for Georgiev who is three years away from group III. The schedule will be crazy next season. The Rangers will need more than one goaltender. Igor Shesterkin had some injuries last season. He hurt his ankle in Winnipeg. The car accident was a freak thing but he did miss time. Broken rib. Fractured rib. He hurt his groin right before the Carolina series.
Hank can go make his own deal somewhere else. Maybe he retires if he can't find a spot. I would not hold it against him if the Rangers bought him out and he retired after not finding another team. The Rangers bought out Chris Drury in 2011 when his knee injury ended his career. He couldn't play anymore. He did not retire. The Rangers bought him out. No hard feelings. Jeff Gorton hired Drury four years later as a player development guy. Promoted to AGM one year later.
The Rangers do not have that much flexibility. The cap is flat at $81.5M. The cap went up $2M for 19-20. The Rangers don't have much money coming off the books. The Rangers had $9.65M in expiring contacts coming off the books in 2019-20 with Kevin Hayes at $5.175M and Mats Zuccarello at $4.5M. The Rangers have numerous group II's with arbitration rights to sign this off-season. Ryan Strome and Tony DeAngelo will come in at $9M-$10M combined. Short term deals. Strome is one year away from Group III. Both of them will file for salary arbitration. Both of them are coming off the best seasons of their careers.
The summer or fall of 2021 is when the Rangers will have more flexibility to change the roster. The Marc Staal contract at $5.7M comes off the books. The Brendan Smith contract at $4.35M comes off the books. That is a combined $10,0500,000.
The Kevin Shattenkirk buyout drops by $4.65M. $6,083,000 to $1,433,333 in 21-22. The Lundqvist buyout drops by $4M. $5.5m to $1.5M. The Ryan Spooner buyout of $300,000 comes off the books.
That is $19M coming off the books for 21-22. The Rangers can use that money for the performance bonuses in 20-21. The Rangers will not have room for Alexis Lafrenière bonuses. Kaapo Kakko. Shesterkin has $2.85M in bonuses. Roll them over. Shesterkin is up for a new deal that off-season. Arbitration eligible.
The Rangers do not have much money remaining after paying their own players. The Rangers already have a ton of buyout money on the books. Fill out the roster. Leave money to operate the team to call-ups. There might not be an AHL season in 20-21. Their season is supposed to start on December 4. There will not be a vaccine ready by then. It will take time for mass distribution of a vaccine say it comes on the market in January.
It was good checking in to share my thoughts. Everyone take care. Wear a mask.
Crease
Chief Justice of the HFNYR Court
- Jul 12, 2004
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Holy crap I was worried about you. Hope all is well, and that you’re back again soon.
Irishguy42
Mr. Preachy
Welcome back, stay safe homie.
haohmaru
boomshakalaka
Next time give us a leave of absence notice please. Glad you're okay.
Good to see ya, RB. Stay safe.
That's just it, though--if he's not part of the plan moving forward (and again, nobody seems to think that he is), why bring him back rather than using this throwaway season to get a better look at Chytil at 2c? Also, why would a player--who just had a career year and only has one year of RFA status left--take a short term small dollar deal? Strome is a nice player to have and fits with Panarin like a glove, but he seems like the clear expendable piece here, both in $$ terms and in gameplay/development.
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