Player Discussion Henrik Lundqvist: Part II

Discussion in 'New York Rangers' started by Fugazy, Nov 19, 2019.

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  1. Chimp Registered User

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    And for all those who think I'm just a huge Lundqvist homer and have read my posts over the decade, no, I'm not a pure Lundqvist homer, I'm a goalie homer if you go deeper. Let's just say I have a slightly more forgiving way of defining a goal as "weak" or a "softie" and that definition has always irked me, whoever you would call out. That's not just Lundqvist. A ton of discussions I've been in isn't to defend Lundqvist, but to defend the difficulties of being a goalie.

    I've lambasted posters who basically defined any Lundqvist goal as a softie and I've argued even more goals to not be as easy to save as you might think. You can think of me as you want and define it however to your liking, I don't care. According to me, I've always been trying to hold on to my principles. I haven't always defended Lundqvist, but alot of times I have defended him when I think it was uncalled for to blame him for the loss, because the analysis of a certain play forgot of a few things. As have I done for any goalie I've been discussing. That is a principle I've always been true to and you can check it up if you want to. I call a softie merited when I see it, by my view of goaltending, not before.

    The reason I keep these posts separate is, I want to separate my open homerism for Lundqvist - and all goalies - from my arguments why I keep him as special in all my love for the positioning of goaltenders.

    And yes, I'm also excited to see what "Shesty" can do in the next era. His brick wall style is very interesting. It's just a travesty that Lundqvist's career has to end like this.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2020
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  2. sbjnyc Registered User

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    I don't know he's always been big in big games. If this is his last year with the Rangers I want to see him get the gretzky lap. If it is a do or die game I'd like to think he'd be up for it (and it's against the blackhawks).
     
  3. THE JAM Registered User

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  4. Chimp Registered User

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  5. Desdichado93 Registered User

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    My reply to that would be:

     
  6. Chimp Registered User

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    So, choosing a goalie who has been in a car accident with micro fractures in his ribs is the better way to go, so soon, eh? Talk about wishful thinking. Talk about desperation. Or picking the goalie who in no way has been better than him (Georgiev), only being younger, is the better way to go? Then you re-heat Lundqvist like Han Solo's frozen body in Jabba the Hut's lair to play, only to lambast him that he's sluggish (no shit?), is the way to go, only to put him back in cryo sleep.

    Sure, he isn't prime Lundqvist anymore, but he has tried to hold together an absolute kindergarden of a team for years now. Sure, just as dysfunctional as many previous teams, but he's not 28 any longer. His recipe for performing for him is workload, but NYR can't give him a workload. Apparently starting goalies doesn't exist as a working concept anymore. I don't know why, honestly.

    And now when the team actually plays like an actual team, Lundqvist's put in the Jabba the Hut cryo freeze. Just great. Who in their right mind would believe Shesty would have the numbers he had, if he played behind the clown team of the first half of the season? They were statistically worse than Detroit and the Kings, but Lundqvist was at the top of advanced goalie stats. He couldn't hold the fort for more than 2 months and in a couple of months more, he's apparently more useless than Marc Staal.

    NYR has dug this grave themselves. Georgiev is in no way a better goalie than even a 38 year old Lundqvist, but he STILL hasn't had a chance to get into his zone, ever, in this season. No trust from management. Every bad game and you're in the cold. So there you go. Lundqvist has always played with the trust from upper management, now he's always seen as something the cat dragged in.

    The first time the NYR team actually played like a team capable of legitimately winning games, they went with Shesty. Wow, such a tough time for him. NOT. He's a really promising goalie, but you have to stop hyping him yet. Let Shesty play behind a kindergarden team of a period before you hail him as the next Jesus.

    I know it's a long strategical move, but I can in no way be sad if the Rangers miss the playoffs this year. It's what they asked for, especially considering the goalie situation with this ridiculous "it's a day to day thing."

    The last time Lundqvist played behind a team with some structure was... a really long time ago. When they actually got it, he was eating popcorn.

    So why even f***ing pretend they try to get into the playoffs? They're not. So they won't get in. After two months, Lundqvist was the best goalie in the NHL by advanced statistics. That's apparently useless a couple of months later. If NYR would go with Lundqvist and give him the workhorse standard, he could carry them if he doesn't play behind a kindergarden, but of course they don't care about this season.

    Like I've said, this is so much classic NYR treatment of former HHOF players. It's disgraceful.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2020
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  7. THE JAM Registered User

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    Paying your goalie 12% or more of the whole salary cap pretty much guarantees that you will not win the Cup
    - whatever is your goalie's name - Hankey or Shesty or ...
    Just don't do it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2020
  8. mrhockey193195 Registered User

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    Definitely not Tony Godsick himself. At this point, Tony basically only works with Roger (and a little but with Coco Gauff).
     
  9. Loki Dog 74 Dog of mischief

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    So... if they don’t play the remainder of the games have we seen the last of Henrik? Terribly sad if so. Not the way anyone would have liked to watch the King ride off into the sunset and despite clearly being unhappy with the situation (and frankly, having been worthy of more starts... can’t expect much from a 38 year old who plays once every 10 games when he’s used to playing damn near 70), he was still the consummate professional. Lundqvist is a legend as far as I’m concerned and I don’t care how this final year plays out. Buyout. Trade. Retirement. Play. Hank is Hank. Nothing will tarnish that for me.

    salary cap is always a consideration and fans have a short memory and what have you done lately attitude sometimes... but regardless of whether or not he’s been treated appropriately given the situation, or unfairly, by the organization, I’d like to give the man a bear sized hand shake and pat on the back and tell him that regardless of how it ends, he’s one of the most beloved to ever put the jersey on and the true NYR fans will never forget.
     
  10. UnSandvich Registered User

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    Yeah, this'd be a real downer of a way to go out if it's Hank's last season with us, no matter whether it's buyout, trade, or retirement
     
  11. HatTrick Swayze Just Be Nice Sponsor

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  12. JimmyG89 Registered User

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    It's a happy May 13th to the Rangers, but also Henrik Lundqvist.

    On this day in 2013, 2014, and 2015, Henrik Lundqvist won three different Game 7s, while allowing two goals total. His stat line for each game 7:

    • 2013 vs Washington: 35 saves on 35 shots in a 5-0 win in round 1
    • 2014 vs Pittsburgh: 35 saves on 36 shots in a 2-1 win in round 2
    • 2015 vs Washington: 35 saves on 36 shots in a 2-1 OT win in round 2
    35 saves each game. 35 was his number in Sweden. 35 was also considered one of the best big game goalies in the history of the NHL and was up in the rafters for each one of those performances.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2020
  13. Loki Dog 74 Dog of mischief

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    Two goals allowed on 105 shots in game 7s on May 13th.

    That’s like a 98.3 save percentage?
     
  14. Irishguy42 Mr. Preachy

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    "Not clutch tho"
    "King with no crown"
     
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  15. haohmaru boomshakalaka

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  16. Chimp Registered User

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    You don't play at the level he has played at, for such a long time, by giving up at adversity. Of course he wouldn't quit. His mind is one of his biggest assets. It's his aging body that is failing him, which I think has been way overplayed considering the special rebuild situation in NYR. Georgiev has in no way been better than Lundqvist (but Georgiev is younger) and Lundqvist hasn't had the opportunity to get set with a team prepared to win, like Shesty was. Lundqvist has played behind a team with no defensive structure for a long time now.

    I'm not so sure NYR would've had a worse result with a Lundqvist in game shape, when they played like they were ready to succeed. The goalie situation with Lundqvist and Georgiev was vastly different from how the team played when Shesty arrived. I'm not saying Shesty is the future (he probably is), I'm just saying the season stats are not comparable.

    When the team finally had the resemblance of structure again, Lundqvist was benched. I don't know what he could've done differently. He was at the top of all goalies in goals expected stats, with the worst defensive team in the league early on. I don't see how you can hold against him that he at the age of 38 couldn't carry a kindergarden to a playoff spot. Then he had a "bad" stretch (like any goalie has) and apparently he was done for.
     
  17. DekeR Registered User

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    It's not feasible to keep Hank next season, the prospects we have for a backup will not work if we let Georgiev go and a 39 year old goalie needs to have more work to remain sharp than say a 33 year old. It doesn't make any sense to get rid of Georgiev in a cap era where buying out Hank will save you 3M in cap space next year and add 1.5M in cap the following year. The length of a contract is the riding issue here and that falls on both player and management. If that contract was to expire this year the outlook would have painted a different portrait and no one would have been clamoring for an extension but instead everyone could have enjoyed watching Hank ride into the sunset because it's time. In my humble opinion.
     
  18. yrrebbor Registered User

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    What happens with Hank this run? Is he going to be on the bench, or will he get one game a series?
     
  19. SingnBluesOnBroadway Retired

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  20. Amazing Kreiderman @StatBoy_Steven Sponsor

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    Quinn has two options basically.

    He can go with the better goalie, give his team the best chance to win

    or

    Go with Henrik Lundqvist
     
  21. TominNC Registered User

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    Why would he get one game a series?

    If Igor’s playing well no way you sit him. If Igor doesn’t play well and Hank plays well why would you pull him? If it’s to give Hank a game for old time’s sake, well that’s ridiculous.
     
  22. IceColdOx Registered User

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    Ride the hot hand no matter who he is. I love Hank, but Shesty is the future. We're playing with house money in this qualifier. If we win, great. If not, we got a chance at Lafraniere.
     
  23. UnSandvich Registered User

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    Short of injury, or a reverse of the Fleury-Murray situation in Pittsburgh in the playoffs a few years ago (rather unlikely), Hank's gonna be riding the bench
     
  24. Amazing Kreiderman @StatBoy_Steven Sponsor

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    As he should
     
  25. UnSandvich Registered User

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    I think "should" depends on organizational goals, but I don't have any objection
     
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