Player Discussion Henri Jokiharju

[BB88]

Retaining depth by sending players who don’t have to clear waivers to the AHL is an age old approach that lots of teams use to maintain quality depth throughout the organization.

Giving away depth and having lesser players available when injuries inevitably strike is how teams get to the point where fans and media complain about a lack of depth.

You should still do what's best for your top prospects development.

If it's NHL then that x prospect should be in the NHL.

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

You should still do what's best for your top prospects development.

If it's NHL then that x prospect should be in the NHL.

You are wrong, if Nelson gets claimed they should shut down the franchise as we apparently totally f***ed without him.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

This is the stupidest approach towards roster building. I really hope they dont think in this way.

On the flip side, you're saying the quote below, is the stupidest approach to building a roster...as if the world ends if Jokiharu has to spend a month or so in Rochester until Nelson or Bogosian or Ristolainen can be traded. Yes, the 3rd RHD will determine the course of the Sabres season in a six week span of waiting for some trade value in a Nelson/Bogo/Risto deal. All GMs are idiots because they all think the same. Apply and save a team from their own terribadness.

A lot will depend on who is still on the roster by then, unfortunately.

If Risto (and/or Bogo) doesn’t get traded, I bet he starts in Rochester with Montour, Miller, Risto, Bogo, and Nelson also in the mix. Joker gets sent down until a D or two get hurt.

Notice he said "unfortunately" because we all would prefer a RHD trade happen sooner and open up a spot for the best talent to start, regardless of waiver status...assuming Jokiharu actually deserves it.

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

On the flip side, you're saying the quote below, is the stupidest approach to building a roster...as if the world ends if Jokiharu has to spend a month or so in Rochester until Nelson or Bogosian or Ristolainen can be traded. Yes, the 3rd RHD will determine the course of the Sabres season in a six week span of waiting for some trade value in a Nelson/Bogo/Risto deal. All GMs are idiots because they all think the same. Apply and save a team from their own terribadness.



Notice he said "unfortunately" because we all would prefer a RHD trade happen sooner and open up a spot for the best talent to start, regardless of waiver status...assuming Jokiharu actually deserves it.

Nelson has no value, dont even know if he gets waived whether someone will actually pick him up. And if they do, we still have Borgen im the AHL. And we have Bogo who is half broken and will be off the roster next season, and we cant lose him even if wanted to. If Joker is better than him, he can have fun as the 7th D for all I care. There is absolutely no problem with Joker starting in the NHL if he earns a spot. If Risto isnt traded, that would be quite hard as he has to beat out Millet, which I dont see happening. If Risto is traded its his spot to lose especially with Bogo being broken again right now.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

Nelson has no value, dont even know if he gets waived whether someone will actually pick him up. And if they do, we still have Borgen im the AHL. And we have Bogo who is half broken and will be off the roster next season, and we cant lose him even if wanted to. If Joker is better than him, he can have fun as the 7th D for all I care. There is absolutely no problem with Joker starting in the NHL if he earns a spot. If Risto isnt traded, that would be quite hard as he has to beat out Millet, which I dont see happening. If Risto is traded its his spot to lose especially with Bogo being broken again right now.

Well this is a hell of a lot more reasonable response than how you replied to Jim Bob the first time around.

 

[Dingo44]

You are wrong, if Nelson gets claimed they should shut down the franchise as we apparently totally ****ed without him.

Letting Nelson leave for nothing when he is at the very least a tradeable asset and at the most a decent to good fill in when injuries occur would be very poor asset management.

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

Letting Nelson leave for nothing when he is at the very least a tradeable asset and at the most a decent to good fill in when injuries occur would be very poor asset management.

How do you know he's tradeable? And even if he's it's like a 6th round pick. I am not choosing worse roster players to play in a critical year over 6th round picks.

 

[sincerity0]

I think there is another one.

But, he’s not getting sent down. Ever.

You are technically correct

 

[Buffaloed]

Beware of the sophomore slump. It's common for prospects to take a step back.

 

[Jim Bob]

Beware of the sophomore slump. It's common for prospects to take a step back.

Are you trying to tell me that player development isn't a linear progression?

 

[itwasaforwardpass]

Beware of the sophomore slump. It's common for prospects to take a step back.

So Mittelstadt is going to be in the AHL next year?

 

[DolanPlsGoSabres]

So Mittelstadt is going to be in the AHL next year?

Dahlin gets loaned to Europe, of course

 

[Dirty Dog]

If Joker is better than him, he can have fun as the 7th D for all I care.

That’s no way to develop a player!

 

[jc17]

Beware of the sophomore slump. It's common for prospects to take a step back.

Glad tage got his out of the way

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

That’s no way to develop a player!

By he I meant Bogo

 

[Asymmetric Solution]

I’d rather have Nelson as depth as opposed to a lot of the options the Sabres will be left with if they lose someone like Nelson on waivers.

Nelson is garbage. I have no doubt he’d clear waivers.

 

[Gabrielor]

Nelson is garbage. I have no doubt he’d clear waivers.

Ehh...I wouldn’t say garbage, but he’s definitely NHL/AHL tweener depth.

Garbage would be your Tennyson’s and your Hunwick’s. Nelson is a level above that.

 

[sufferer]

So Mittelstadt is going to be in the AHL next year?

The slump doesn't apply to those who had underwhelming to pedestrian rookie seasons. I think we're safe.

 

[Jim Bob]

Nelson is garbage. I have no doubt he’d clear waivers.

Well, I've been reading tweets all summer from the Anti-Risto analytics peopel saying that Nelson playing over Risto makes the Sabres a better team.

If that is the case, I would want him on the team.

 

[Paxon]

Nelson is garbage. I have no doubt he’d clear waivers.

Nelson has had several stints/stretches of solid play. Like is said in a post above, he is tweener depth, not garbage. I'm not worried about losing him but he's also not dead weight.

 

[Chainshot]

Well, I've been reading tweets all summer from the Anti-Risto analytics peopel saying that Nelson playing over Risto makes the Sabres a better team.

If that is the case, I would want him on the team.

It's a case of in what situation though. I get the data can be used to paint things in many ways -- I wish some of the Leaf analytics folks who spun the yarn of how Zaitsev is not the exit trainwreck he was shown to be and was instead miscast and worth all that much more (which seems to have at least been born out that they got out from under his deal and wound up with a third in the process, while moving Brown who was also a cap casualty) would take up the cause on behalf of Ristolainen. Anyway... we know that Montour had a rough go being used in the same way Phil was using Risto. We know some other RHD also had serious problems with that (although Tennyson is not a fair comp, really, he got a bunch of that top line RHD two years ago, including PK duty and was clearly in WAY over his head) type of use. Look back at Franson who as a third pairing, O-zone starting guy did some good stuff. It's easy to look at him at that time as a possible 3rd pairing specialist but the eyeballs show a guy who can't keep up and who causes problems for his teammates due to it, especially in more minutes (in much the same way I would ascert Pominville has great looking metrics and looks like he is still living off the ability of faster linemates to carry play and set up offensively).

I don't think anyone wants Nelson to have to handle the same role Risto had, even if the fancy stats in his use look better. Though his early season time with Dahlin was such a pleasant contribution and that didn't seem to end after they parted and Bogosian got to be Dahlin's daily partner. We'll see, but a team up against the cap might think a guy with good metrics and a cheap deal might be very helpful in that #7 D slot and might even want him in trade.

Anyway, coming back to the "new" Finn, I am kind of liking the idea that he looks like a sort of Hjalmarsson type when he's out of the mold and fully cooled. The hints about shying on physical contact/battle from different writers covering the Hawks are something to watch out for yet at the same time, a high-mobility defensive d-man is a commodity to evolve. While the deal may be motivation for Nylander to get his ass going, perhaps this too is the sort of motivational experience to fire Henri up coming into camp and the season. If the rumblings about how PO'd HJ was getting sent down, this might just be even more incentive for him to prove Bowman and the Hawks wrong.

 

[Asymmetric Solution]

Well, I've been reading tweets all summer from the Anti-Risto analytics peopel saying that Nelson playing over Risto makes the Sabres a better team.

If that is the case, I would want him on the team.

I can’t fathom anyone in their right mind believing Casey Nelson is a better hockey player than Rasmus Ristolainen.

 

[Jim Bob]

I can’t fathom anyone in their right mind believing Casey Nelson is a better hockey player than Rasmus Ristolainen.

The "Trading Risto is addition by subtraction" crowd believes that is the case.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

The "Trading Risto is addition by subtraction" crowd believes that is the case.

They would rather trade Risto than add McDavid at this point.

 

[Asymmetric Solution]

The "Trading Risto is addition by subtraction" crowd believes that is the case.

I’d like for members of that crowd to state they’d prefer Casey Nelson so I can openly disparage their idiocy.