Heiskanen vs Dahlin - Better hockey career?

[ijuka]

D zone to O zone carries is yet another irrelevant stat. Many times, carrying the puck up the ice slows the tempo down, and passing is a far more effective option. From what I have seen most of Dahlin and Heiskanens points come from passing the puck up the ice, joining the attack, and finding another pass which leads to a goal.

Of course he can put up offensive numbers while also having a defensive role, the best defencemen in the NHL always do that.

Explain how arguing Dahlin is better because he comfortably outscores Heiskanen and has comparable defensive stats is ignorant? That is what I am arguing. There is no way around what I just said. I think it is rather ignorant to claim that 5v5 points are more relevant than PP points, they are not. Both Dahlin and Heiskanen play pretty high PP minutes, but Dahlin is a much better power play quarterback. 4 more even strength minutes a game with only a minute less PP time should be enough for a defenceman to outscore another one with the same offensive ability, but despite that it isn’t close.

In their U20 seasons, Dahlin has a PPG of 0.67, and Heiskanen a PPG of 0.40. That is a massive difference. Looking at their stats in offensive and defensive categories in the same age, even comparing them going forward is a joke.

This isn’t really that relevant, but Dahlin wins every poll against Heiskanen for a reason, The vast majority of fans that aren’t from Finland or doesn’t support the Stars would take Heiskanen going forward.

How about goal-scoring?

Hope you realize what Dahlin actually leads Heiskanen in is secondary assists.

So last season Dahlin's offense was further ahead than it's now? Oh, doesn't that signify an inferior trajectory, then?

 

[Zub]

D zone to O zone carries is yet another irrelevant stat. Many times, carrying the puck up the ice slows the tempo down, and passing is a far more effective option. From what I have seen most of Dahlin and Heiskanens points come from passing the puck up the ice, joining the attack, and finding another pass which leads to a goal.

Of course he can put up offensive numbers while also having a defensive role, the best defencemen in the NHL always do that.

Explain how arguing Dahlin is better because he comfortably outscores Heiskanen and has comparable defensive stats is ignorant? That is what I am arguing. There is no way around what I just said. I think it is rather ignorant to claim that 5v5 points are more relevant than PP points, they are not. Both Dahlin and Heiskanen play pretty high PP minutes, but Dahlin is a much better power play quarterback. 4 more even strength minutes a game with only a minute less PP time should be enough for a defenceman to outscore another one with the same offensive ability, but despite that it isn’t close.

In their U20 seasons, Dahlin has a PPG of 0.67, and Heiskanen a PPG of 0.40. That is a massive difference. Looking at their stats in offensive and defensive categories in the same age, even comparing them going forward is a joke.

This isn’t really that relevant, but Dahlin wins every poll against Heiskanen for a reason, The vast majority of fans that aren’t from Finland or doesn’t support the Stars would take Heiskanen going forward.

And you keep saying that every fact that favors Heiskanen is irrelevant. When the stats bringed up is infact some of the most relevant stats there is. Dahlin is not that superior as your'e saying. Don't be ridicilous.

 

[AB13]

I do agree that Dahlin wins this poll, but the way you try explaining that Dahlin is miles and miles millions of miles ahead in everything on Heiskanen is just ridicilous, they are very close when all factors taken in consideration. If Dahlin was so many miles ahead of Heiskanen offensively, where's his goals at? He has some, but Heiskanen has been scoring many creative and beautiful goals, some are even highlight reel. I've yet seen any from Dahlin, i would expect him to score GOTY goals every night if he was so much better as your claiming.

Offense from the backend is not mainly about goals. He has much more points, goals and assists are generally of the same importance.

 

[AB13]

How about goal-scoring?

Hope you realize what Dahlin actually leads Heiskanen in is secondary assists.

So last season Dahlin's offense was further ahead than it's now? Oh, doesn't that signify an inferior trajectory, then?

No, Dahlins offense has improved this season. He is in his U20 season now, Heiskanens U20 season was last year. In Dahlins U19 season, he had a 0.54 ppg, in this season, he has a 0.67 ppg. Compare that to Heiskanens U20 season, where as I said, he has a 0.4 ppg.

Secondary assists are just as important as primary assists and goals, on some goals more important, in some less.

 

[catters078]

Asking as a general question as I don't see many sabres games?

But does dahlin get many minutes against opposing top lines/ kill penalties.

Heiskanen gets drawn opposing top lines night in night out, kills penalties and is always on the ice in the last 5 minutes whether the stars lead, trail or are tieD.

Such an important impact for a defenseman is to be able to neutralise top lines and still produce offensively. Which miro does.

I can't be sure of this, but I don't think Maker or Dahlin are currently put against top lines every shift and are tasked with all pivotal defensive situations in key games.

 

[jonlin]

Asking as a general question as I don't see many sabres games?

But does dahlin get many minutes against opposing top lines/ kill penalties.

Heiskanen gets drawn opposing top lines night in night out, kills penalties and is always on the ice in the last 5 minutes whether the stars lead, trail or are tieD.

Such an important impact for a defenseman is to be able to neutralise top lines and still produce offensively. Which miro does.

I can't be sure of this, but I don't think Maker or Dahlin are currently put against top lines every shift and are tasked with all pivotal defensive situations in key games.

No, Dahlin does not kill any penalties. Dahlin does not play much against oppositions top-lines, Ristos pairing does. Dahlin is such a good defenseman, Sabres has decided to save his superior defensive play and PK for the playoffs. They would be superior to all teams if they played him in theese situations in the regular season.

 

[Kcb12345]

Ah I see the biggest Heiskanen hater on HF boards in AB13 is back at it again. Guy has no clue what he's talking about and isn't worth anyone's time. Even if every single stat was in Heiskanen's favor he'd still deny it

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

No, Dahlin does not kill any penalties. Dahlin does not play much against oppositions top-lines, Ristos pairing does. Dahlin is such a good defenseman, Sabres has decided to save his superior defensive play and PK for the playoffs. They would be superior to all teams if they played him in theese situations in the regular season.

Nice appeal to authority.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

How many times is someone going to make this thread? It's clear that hockey fans believe that Dahlin will have a better career. Even when Dahlin is concussed and Heiskanen is playing great, the fans prefer Dahlin. Stop making these polls. Give it a few years, and then you'll have a bigger sample to make it again.

And besides, this idea that Dahlin is playing bad is pretty ludicrous. Dahlin's averaging .66 PPG. He plays less than 20 minutes on a bad team. He had a bad stretch of 5-10 games. The few weeks before that Wilson Jr. concussed him, he was playing good hockey. I guess the narrative never caught up with what a few anti-Dahlin hockey fans wanted you to think. Advanced stats are very deceiving and shouldn't be used to judge young players. Look no further than everyone being told that Quinn Hughes is having a great season defensively with nearly 70% starts in the offensive zone. Watch them play, if you want to debate these players. Don't read off a stat-sheet.

 

[Snowsii]

How many times is someone going to make this thread? It's clear that hockey fans believe that Dahlin will have a better career. Even when Dahlin is concussed and Heiskanen is playing great, the fans prefer Dahlin. Stop making these polls. Give it a few years, and then you'll have a bigger sample to make it again.

And besides, this idea that Dahlin is playing bad is pretty ludicrous. Dahlin's averaging .66 PPG. He plays less than 20 minutes on a bad team. He had a bad stretch of 5-10 games. The few weeks before that Wilson Jr. concussed him, he was playing good hockey. I guess the narrative never caught up with what a few anti-Dahlin hockey fans wanted you to think. Advanced stats are very deceiving and shouldn't be used to judge young players. Look no further than everyone being told that Quinn Hughes is having a great season defensively with nearly 70% starts in the offensive zone. Watch them play, if you want to debate these players. Don't read off a stat-sheet.

I havent seen anyone putting Dahlin down here, just one Pro Dahlin troll doing his job.. (not you)

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I havent seen anyone putting Dahlin down here, just one Pro Dahlin troll doing his job.. (not you)

What about the guy I quoted above? What about the guy who said Dahlin is looking like Ekblad? The guy with the Kakko name in his username is another big Dahlin hater.

 

[Cenzhin]

Based on this thread Dahlin went from generational prospect who put up a historic rookie season to sheltered bottom pairing PP specialist in a few months. Impressive.

 

[jonlin]

What about the guy I quoted above? What about the guy who said Dahlin is looking like Ekblad? The guy with the Kakko name in his username is another big Dahlin hater.

Is Dahlin killing penalties? Is Dahlin playing against opponents top line? I am a Dahlin-hater for telling the truth? Your buddy AB is the one trolling here. I have stated facts and backed them up with stats. Is beeing truthfull a hater? And btw, I actually believe that Dahlin might fiull his frame and become better than Heiskanen, but at this point he is nowhere near him defensively. Offensively their on par.

 

[jonlin]

Based on this thread Dahlin went from generational prospect who put up a historic rookie season to sheltered bottom pairing PP specialist in a few months. Impressive.

No. According to most posters in this thread Dahlin hasnt progressed as expected from his rookie-season whereas Heiskanen has gone forward. Dahlin still has the higher ceiling, but he hasnt taken steps forward on his defense. He doesnt get PK time or icetime against the best opponents while defending a lead. This means that he isnt trusted defensively by his coach.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

No. According to most posters in this thread Dahlin hasnt progressed as expected from his rookie-season whereas Heiskanen has gone forward. Dahlin still has the higher ceiling, but he hasnt taken steps forward on his defense. He doesnt get PK time or icetime against the best opponents while defending a lead. This means that he isnt trusted defensively by his coach.

Who said he's killing penalties? You are appealing to authority. Do you not understand what that is? The majority of the posts in this thread come from people like you, who are anti-Dahlin. Dahlin wins all these polls. Most fans vote, and then don't comment because they don't see the need to. You, on the other hand, are here to propagandize against him. Your appeals to authority and hyperbole about his play say as much.

 

[Hennessy]

I came in here to vote Dahlin, but after reading the thread I don't want to give anyone the satisfaction. Yeesh.

 

[AB13]

I havent seen anyone putting Dahlin down here, just one Pro Dahlin troll doing his job.. (not you)

I am not pro Dahlin. I am objectively comparing thats from both seasons and not basing everything of Ice time and a 10 game sample size.

 

[AB13]

Offensively their on par.

You can’t say this and say other people are being biased. Explain how they are on or offensively when the ABSOLUTE FACT is that Dahlin has outscored Heiskanen by a pretty large margin despite being a full season younger? There is no way around Dahlin being better offensively! Dahlin has a ppg of 0.67 in his U20 season, Heiskanen had a PPG of 0.40. Can you please explain how 0.67 is on par with 0.40? Stop being ridiculous.

 

[Satan]

Heiskanen by a country mile.

 

[Snowsii]

I am not pro Dahlin. I am objectively comparing thats from both seasons and not basing everything of Ice time and a 10 game sample size.

You're far far far FAR away from objectively comparing anything.. You're the most biased poster here

 

[jonlin]

I am not pro Dahlin. I am objectively comparing thats from both seasons and not basing everything of Ice time and a 10 game sample size.

Checking through your posting-history its pretty clear your the most biased Pro-Swede in history. And thats a lot to say on HF. JackAttack and Pavel are nowhere near your league. "Objectively comparing..."

 

[AB13]

Checking through your posting-history its pretty clear your the most biased Pro-Swede in history. And thats a lot to say on HF. JackAttack and Pavel are nowhere near your league. "Objectively comparing..."

I argued with stats and facts, those are objective.

 

[jonlin]

I argued with stats and facts, those are objective.

Amazing. Please state all the facts and back them with stats, that make Dahlin superior to Heiskanen atm.

 

[AB13]

Amazing. Please state all the facts and back them with stats, that make Dahlin superior to Heiskanen atm.

I have already done that about 50 times. How about this? Points per game in the NHL

Dahlin 0.57
Heiskanen 0.47

U20 Points per game

Dahlin 0.67
Heiskanen 0.40

Dahlin has more hits, 123 in comparison to Heiskanens 34, and a much better takeaway/giveaway metric.

Dahlin has a CF% of 52.2 in the NHL
Heiskanen has a CF% of 51.0

 

[hairylikebear]

If you want to try to be objective, Heiskanen is 9th in the league in point shares.

Player Season Finder | Hockey-Reference.com

Dahlin is way down there. Don't strain your scroll wheel, he's 145th.