Hearthstone #7 - Knights of the Frozen Throne

LightningStrikes

Champa Bay Lightning
Nov 24, 2009
26,063
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Exodia Mage is so frustrating to play against. I tested Ant's N'Zoth Whirlwind Warrior, was sitting at 70+ life with a board of Cairnes, Direhorns and a Grommash. The guy stalls the entire game with Nova and Blizzard (ofc he pulls more than one out of his discover cards) and ends up blasting me from 70 to 0 in one turn. "Fun and interactive" they said.

I understand the deck does not dominate the meta, it's slow and expensive on top so not a lot of players play it. But when they play it and they pull the right cards in time there is just nothing you can do about it. Blizz needs to step up IMO.
 

Blueline Bomber

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Because UI is a pretty standard power level for a 10 Mana spell. Remember that Anyfin was pretty much 10 Mana: Fill your board or 10 Mana: Win the game. Pyroblast takes away a 3rd of your starting health.

Honestly, Fiery War Axe getting nailed is the biggest surprise. It makes the Axe strictly worse than Bow, Rallying Blade, and Shadowblade, and inadvertently nerfs Tempo and Control Warrior when trying to hit Pirate.
 

Wild11MN

First round losers
May 28, 2013
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Yeah War Axe, Murloc Warleader, and Hex as well. I didn't expect any of those right now. Innervate got crushed... will it still see play? Spreading Plague was the biggest problem imo. I'm glad that'll be upped by 1 mana.
 

Blueline Bomber

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Spreading Plague increased by 1 simply makes Medivh a better choice in Druid. It's made some appearances lately due to UI and the current Spreading Plague, but now it's even better.
 

SeidoN

#OGOC #2018 HFW Predictions Champ
Aug 8, 2012
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had to stop by after noticing these changes on an article online

War Axe and Innervate changes are what... 2 years or so late?
 

Hivemind

We're Touched
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Innervate and Counterfeit Coin are now the same card. Only the second time in Hearthstone two different classes have identical class cards (Arcane Shot and Holy Smite).

War Axe and Innervate are part of the identity of those two classes, so I'm not super happy about those. Timing of the Hex nerf just seems really strange, considering most decks play devolve over it. Plus, 3 + 1 overload seems to fit Shaman identity more than just making it a polymorph that leave a taunt behind.

I agree with the "not intuitive" part of the warleader nerf. Who didn't learn that equality interaction the hard way? But I do find it amusing that they've been spoonfeeding murloc cards for every expansion over the past couple years, and when we've finally reached a point where a tempo-murloc deck is playable, they nerf warleader.
 
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LightningStrikes

Champa Bay Lightning
Nov 24, 2009
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War Axe nerf is strange taking context into consideration. They obviously were trying to hit Pirate Warrior (all other Warrior decks are pretty meh right now). Pirate is going to rotate out soon though. Why not target cards that are plain "hit face" or "weapon synergy" focused like Upgrade, Bloodsail Cultist, Kor'Kron Elite or First Mate? War Axe now is stat-wise comparable to Paladin's, Rogue's and Hunter's 3 mana 3/2 weapons. But they all have text that gives a conditional upside (secrets in play, immune, divine shields in play). So it's actually worse - but conditionally. The nerf meanwhile cripples already struggling decks like Dead Man, Taunt or N'Zoth Warrior and non-existing decks like C'Thun or Midrange Warrior.

The Hex nerf feels out of place. None of the prominent Shaman decks run Hex right now (Token/Evolve Shaman variations - which are mid tier at best right now due to inconsistent evolve outcomes). If they wanted to do this because of a future expansion why not do it at the end of the rotation? But overall I think the change is fine. Same cost as Polymorph (doesn't get played either), more or less the same effect.

Other than that I think Innervate nerf is kinda odd because it punishes Jade Druid counters like Token Druid, Midrage Druid and Aggro Druid more than Jade itself. But I think it's fine.
Spreading Plague will still be played. A better nerf could've been a health reduction on the spawning taunt minions rather than mana cost. 5 health is such a huge number while 4 or even 3 health is still annoying but can be dealt with. 5 health generally requires attacks from at least 2 sources which makes it so tremendously powerful.

Warleader nerf seems fine to me. It impacts future card design too much and its interaction with Pyromancer or Defile are not clear or intuitive. Not sure it "fixes" murlocs though.
 

Blueline Bomber

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Polymorph definitely gets played. It's a key card with Frost Lich Jaina. Kill a big threat from your opponent, summon a 3/6 Lifesteal.

The He change is fine. Same as polymorph, but replaces 1 attack with Taunt.
 

Hivemind

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Polymorph definitely gets played. It's a key card with Frost Lich Jaina. Kill a big threat from your opponent, summon a 3/6 Lifesteal.

The He change is fine. Same as polymorph, but replaces 1 attack with Taunt.

Mage wouldn't really care about attack vs taunt very much, but for Shaman, a taunt on the other side is much worse than an attack. Shaman is a board-focused class and often wins through minion damage (including bloodlust and flametongue).
 

Blueline Bomber

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Been playing Wild Deathrattle Hunter and having a blast. Unlike Standard, Wild isn't infested with Druid decks. Rather, it's infested with Reno decks. And it's actually surprisingly easy to outvalue Reno decks with the introduction of DK Rexxar and Stitched Tracker. Having only 1 copy of everything makes it difficult for them to have enough answers to multiple big threats. Getting an extra N'Zoth or Ragnaros from Stitched Tracker makes all the difference.

### Play Dead
# Class: Hunter
# Format: Wild
#
# 2x (1) Play Dead
# 2x (1) Tracking
# 1x (2) Explosive Trap
# 2x (2) Freezing Trap
# 2x (2) Glaivezooka
# 2x (2) King's Elekk
# 2x (2) Mad Scientist
# 2x (2) Quick Shot
# 2x (3) Animal Companion
# 1x (3) Deadly Shot
# 2x (3) Stitched Tracker
# 1x (4) Barnes
# 2x (4) Piloted Shredder
# 2x (5) Corpse Widow
# 1x (6) Deathstalker Rexxar
# 1x (6) Savannah Highmane
# 1x (6) Sylvanas Windrunner
# 1x (8) Ragnaros the Firelord
# 1x (10) N'Zoth, the Corruptor

AAEBAR8I9gLJBMUI7Qm5DeCsAoW4AobTAgu1A4cElwj3DdsPkBDUEcsUnM0C080Cxs4CAA==
 

LightningStrikes

Champa Bay Lightning
Nov 24, 2009
26,063
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Got my golden Jaina last night (500 wins)! :handclap:

Secret mage seems pretty strong now after the nerfs. Priest is still insanely strong, both Big and Highlander. I faced just one Druid (Ramp) in like 30 games and won easily. Control Warlock seems to be appearing after the nerfs now again too. Gonna be interesting which deck will come out on top but Priest is the class to beat.
 

Hammettf2b

oldmanyellsatcloud.jpg
Jul 9, 2012
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So California
Got my golden Jaina last night (500 wins)! :handclap:

Secret mage seems pretty strong now after the nerfs. Priest is still insanely strong, both Big and Highlander. I faced just one Druid (Ramp) in like 30 games and won easily. Control Warlock seems to be appearing after the nerfs now again too. Gonna be interesting which deck will come out on top but Priest is the class to beat.

Is Archbishop Benedictus a decent replacement for Elise in an Highlander deck?
 

Frankie Spankie

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Feb 22, 2009
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Make sure to log in today for a free 100g!

Been playing Wild Deathrattle Hunter and having a blast. Unlike Standard, Wild isn't infested with Druid decks. Rather, it's infested with Reno decks. And it's actually surprisingly easy to outvalue Reno decks with the introduction of DK Rexxar and Stitched Tracker. Having only 1 copy of everything makes it difficult for them to have enough answers to multiple big threats. Getting an extra N'Zoth or Ragnaros from Stitched Tracker makes all the difference.

### Play Dead
# Class: Hunter
# Format: Wild
#
# 2x (1) Play Dead
# 2x (1) Tracking
# 1x (2) Explosive Trap
# 2x (2) Freezing Trap
# 2x (2) Glaivezooka
# 2x (2) King's Elekk
# 2x (2) Mad Scientist
# 2x (2) Quick Shot
# 2x (3) Animal Companion
# 1x (3) Deadly Shot
# 2x (3) Stitched Tracker
# 1x (4) Barnes
# 2x (4) Piloted Shredder
# 2x (5) Corpse Widow
# 1x (6) Deathstalker Rexxar
# 1x (6) Savannah Highmane
# 1x (6) Sylvanas Windrunner
# 1x (8) Ragnaros the Firelord
# 1x (10) N'Zoth, the Corruptor

AAEBAR8I9gLJBMUI7Qm5DeCsAoW4AobTAgu1A4cElwj3DdsPkBDUEcsUnM0C080Cxs4CAA==

I've been playing this deck after you posted it since I already had all of it and it's a lot of fun. I've had some great success with it so far and am probably around a 70% win rate with it. I ended up swapping out the two trackings because I'm just not a fan of having to discard 2 other cards for each time you use it. I put in a Toxic Arrow and a Flare to replace them with. I'm not sure if I'm going to keep Toxic Arrow but feel like it's a very versatile card and want to give it a go.
 

Blueline Bomber

AI Generated Minnesota Wild
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Oct 31, 2007
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Glad you like it. The Tracking I found useful to quickly draw your key pieces when you need them. Getting a Nzoth or Deadly Shot when you need them is often worth discarding the other two cards.

Also, Tempo Elemental Rogue is also surprisingly solid after the nerfs. Turns out that Shadowstep/Shadowcaster synergizes well with Blazecaller and Prince Kelesth. Who knew?
 

Hivemind

We're Touched
Oct 8, 2010
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Is Archbishop Benedictus a decent replacement for Elise in an Highlander deck?

No. Absolutely not. That's the opposite of what you want in your Highlander deck.

First off, if you get doubles in your deck and haven't played Raza yet (or to a lesser degree Kazakus), you're screwed.

Secondly, Highlander priest is essentially a combo deck. It wins based off of cycling cards quickly, suppressing the board, and then exploiting the Raza/Anduin synergy to deal a bunch of damage quickly to win the game. You want to be thinning your deck out to get to those key cards (Raza, Anduin, sometimes Velen, cheap spells). Benedictus does the exact opposite of thinning your deck, it puts a bunch of junk in between you and drawing Raza/Anduin. And oftentimes, that junk isn't going to do a whole lot to help you cycle your deck and suppress the board to keep you alive.

While Elise is a solid card in Highlander priest in control match-ups, its far from a mandatory card. There's tons of flexibility in how to build Highlander priest.
 

Hammettf2b

oldmanyellsatcloud.jpg
Jul 9, 2012
22,489
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So California
No. Absolutely not. That's the opposite of what you want in your Highlander deck.

First off, if you get doubles in your deck and haven't played Raza yet (or to a lesser degree Kazakus), you're screwed.

Secondly, Highlander priest is essentially a combo deck. It wins based off of cycling cards quickly, suppressing the board, and then exploiting the Raza/Anduin synergy to deal a bunch of damage quickly to win the game. You want to be thinning your deck out to get to those key cards (Raza, Anduin, sometimes Velen, cheap spells). Benedictus does the exact opposite of thinning your deck, it puts a bunch of junk in between you and drawing Raza/Anduin. And oftentimes, that junk isn't going to do a whole lot to help you cycle your deck and suppress the board to keep you alive.

While Elise is a solid card in Highlander priest in control match-ups, its far from a mandatory card. There's tons of flexibility in how to build Highlander priest.
Awesome thanks! I just bit the bullet and crafted Velen and Elise. No more crafting for me for a long while lol
 

LightningStrikes

Champa Bay Lightning
Nov 24, 2009
26,063
9,772
Is Archbishop Benedictus a decent replacement for Elise in an Highlander deck?

As has been pointed out Benedictus doesn't make sense in Highlander as it directly counters what you're trying to do with the deck (get to your "no dublicate" synergy cards like Kazakus, Raza as well as your finisher cards like Anduin, Velen, Lyra as fast as possible).

I'm not totally sold on Elise in Highlander Priest either. I mean in a way she does the same thing as Benedictus but obviously in a way less drastical way. She adds a card to your deck which essentially delays you reaching your finisher combos. On the other hand the five cards created oftentimes can win you the game as well, if they're low mana cost which enables your Anduin/Raza hero power spamming. But I don't think she's a must-include in the deck, actually I don't play her.

I've been having fun with the Penguin OTK variation of Highlander Priest lately. So the game plan is to pull your Raza and Anduin asap to get your hero power down to zero mana and do damage. Your OTK combo consists of:
1 Hero Power for 2
2 Play Velen
3 Hero Power for 4 (Velen)
4 Play Mirage Caller and copy Velen
5 Hero Power for 8 (double Velen)
6 Play Penguin or 0 mana spell
7 Hero Power for 8 (22 damage dealt already)
8 Play 0 mana spell (Silence / CoH)
9 Hero Power for 8 (30 damage)
10 Play 0 mana spell
11 (Hero Power for 8 (38 damage)
...

Normally 22 is enough so it's a 3 card combo (Velen, Mirage, 0 mana spell or Penguin). Of course you need to first pull and play Raza and Anduin.

Before you just destroy their board with Doomsayer, Shadow Words, Thalnos + Spirit Lash / Holy Nova / Dragonfire Potion, other spells off Lyra or Auchenai+CoH. Ideally you get another Dragonfire Potion off Shadow Visions.

Not too easy to pull of but quite fun when it works.



In generall I've been having fun with these OTK decks lately (Exodia Mage / Beardo Paladin / Penguin Priest).
 

Blueline Bomber

AI Generated Minnesota Wild
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Oct 31, 2007
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I feel the same way about Hunter. Though the current carbon copy Hunter that's floating around on ladder lately bores me. No different from Pirate Warrior. Ignore minions, go face, very little decision-making.

Someone posted on Reddit something I agree with: Hunter was 1 cheap Lifesteal Beast away from having a viable Control deck. DK Rexxar can do pretty much everything, but the fact that it's only source of healing comes from a 5-mana card is rough.
 

Hivemind

We're Touched
Oct 8, 2010
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Philadelphia
Is Hunter really that viable? I still destroy every Hunter I face with my Highlander Priest. The only game I lost was when the Hunter opponent got some serious highroll build-a-beat on turns 7 and 8. Turn 7 was a poisonous flappy bird I had to trade my 5/7 Raza into (or else let it start evolving my face). I traded my Raza and played Velen to start healing myself back up. His turn 8 was a Poisonous Dispatch Kodo.

Other than that game, I've destroyed just about every Hunter I've faced.
 

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