OT: Health and Fitness Thread - The Second
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ChiHawks10
Registered User
12 isn't really pre-puberty these days...
But in the grand scheme of things... no. The body is the f***ing body. The lungs work the same way. The heart works the same way. The oxygen being distributed to the blood and then to the muscles functions the same way. This part of the biological process is not different. It doesn't change. It functions the same way whether you're 15 or 50.
And... it's not a waste of time. It's a waste of time to do it at the very end of practice for 5 minutes, and then end the practice.
You can do the same conditioning drills, but mix them in sporadically into practices. There's nothing wrong with that.
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- Aug 24, 2011
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I played varsity baseball through high school, all 8 positions except pitcher (didn’t have the arm and I worked too slow). Two of my uncles were excellent college baseball players, one was extremely close to getting drafted. There are things I know from playing that someone who never played would just simply not know. There are things my uncles know from playing at a higher level than me that I simply don’t know, and they definitely know much more about the game than someone who has never played. Past a certain point however, it doesn’t make them an authority on the MLB or MLB players.
More knowledge=/= bottom line knowledge.
More knowledge=/= bottom line knowledge.
No it's not. WTF is this logic? A kid in the juniors puts out 100% effort on the ice. A pro in the NHL puts out 100% effort on the ice. Both push their bodies to the maximum each and every game.
Their maximums may be different due to physical development, but the same ****ing principles apply.
No, they really don't. A lot of kids in juniors think they are going 100% and then they reach the next level and realize they weren't working hard at all and they either up their game or get weeded out.
BK
"Goalie Apologist"
As are some pros, I'm sure.
I know I've seen some games I've thought Kane was 110% hung over as ****.
This quote is the key.
Smart coaches worked in conditioning early and didn't do it just at the end of practice. I know most of my coaches started with conditioning early in practice and we would also do conditioning in between specialty work. Our practices typically ended with stretching.
ChiHawks10
Registered User
Care to provide the proof for such a ridiculous statement?
This takes the cake as one of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen stated on here. And that's saying something.
- Aug 24, 2011
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Then what are you arguing? Guys in juniors doing the same drills as guys in the NHL means what exactly? You’ve lost me
ColdSteel2
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- Aug 27, 2010
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Yeah, Colliton went to the whip with Kane to help the team get back into the race. Whether he is fatigued or hurt now doesn’t change that. I just looked it up, season stats he is now 2 minutes per game 5 v 5 above the next guy, Panarin. I doubt other coaches are looking at Colliton as making some kind of new discovery that these guys can play that much more.
BK
"Goalie Apologist"
I would argue that this is not really true but the thing they realize is that while they are going 100% they are not playing as efficient/as smart as they should be.
ChiHawks10
Registered User
ChiHawks10
Registered User
It all goes back to the idea of Kane being "burned out" which is a ridiculous idea. He's hurt. I'd put money on it.
And I'm arguing on why you try to discount his 30 years of experience playing the game, and 15 years coaching the game, simply because it's not "NHL experience". That's ridiculous. And you're doing it to the extent that you seemingly throw a tantrum anytime he mentions it, now. I've seen it 3-4 times in the past week or two alone.
There is nothing wrong with drawing on that experience to formulate your opinions about something, or to draw conclusions about something. Nothing at all. For you to think there is, simply because it's not "NHL" experience, is wrong.
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- Aug 24, 2011
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This shouldn’t have been split in two threads. I don’t remember exactly what your brother said to spark this so maybe I’m wrong. Think it went something like this...
-RtR: Kane’s ice time is up, maybe he’s burned out, which would explain his recent slump
-Pez: it’s just an extra shift or two a game, his minutes aren’t much higher than his career norms
-RtR+Other Posters: extrapolated over an entire season, that extra shift or two adds up to anywhere between 61-122 extra minutes a year
-Pez: I played hockey, he’s fine, I can always do an extra shift a game and feel fine the next day, it’s no big deal, he’s not burned out
-RtR+Others: Are you sure? Because it seems to make logical sense that the more you play the more tired you get and that adds up over the course of a season
-Pez: I played hockey I think I know a little something about endurance and physiology
-Me (in beginning stage of tantrum): you didn’t play at the nhl level so you don’t know what you’re talking about
-Pez: 30 years of playing + 15 of coaching. We do the same drills from peewees to juniors as they do in the nhl so I know what it’s like to skate at the nhl level. I also play men’s league 3-4 games a week and know what it’s like to be tired and then play later that week. It’s all physiology. I know Kane is fine because I played hockey all my life and you didn’t
-Me (in mid tantrum): you didn’t play at the nhl level so you cannot speak to what is physically required of players at the NHL level with any significant authority over others
Correct as need be
Me now, (in full tantrum): I do not understand how doing the same skating drills that NHLers do means you know what it’s like to play and skate at the NHL level enough to speak definitively on it. And no, “physiology is physiology” is an absolutely biologically/chemically incorrect statement. There absolutely are notable differences between a professional athlete and a regular person. These guys are paid millions of dollars to be athletic. Seeing Kane play lazy every now and then or seeing a flabby Ovechkin doesn’t mean a men’s league guy can skate with them because he did f***ing suicides as a little kid. Unbelievable.
-RtR: Kane’s ice time is up, maybe he’s burned out, which would explain his recent slump
-Pez: it’s just an extra shift or two a game, his minutes aren’t much higher than his career norms
-RtR+Other Posters: extrapolated over an entire season, that extra shift or two adds up to anywhere between 61-122 extra minutes a year
-Pez: I played hockey, he’s fine, I can always do an extra shift a game and feel fine the next day, it’s no big deal, he’s not burned out
-RtR+Others: Are you sure? Because it seems to make logical sense that the more you play the more tired you get and that adds up over the course of a season
-Pez: I played hockey I think I know a little something about endurance and physiology
-Me (in beginning stage of tantrum): you didn’t play at the nhl level so you don’t know what you’re talking about
-Pez: 30 years of playing + 15 of coaching. We do the same drills from peewees to juniors as they do in the nhl so I know what it’s like to skate at the nhl level. I also play men’s league 3-4 games a week and know what it’s like to be tired and then play later that week. It’s all physiology. I know Kane is fine because I played hockey all my life and you didn’t
-Me (in mid tantrum): you didn’t play at the nhl level so you cannot speak to what is physically required of players at the NHL level with any significant authority over others
Correct as need be
Me now, (in full tantrum): I do not understand how doing the same skating drills that NHLers do means you know what it’s like to play and skate at the NHL level enough to speak definitively on it. And no, “physiology is physiology” is an absolutely biologically/chemically incorrect statement. There absolutely are notable differences between a professional athlete and a regular person. These guys are paid millions of dollars to be athletic. Seeing Kane play lazy every now and then or seeing a flabby Ovechkin doesn’t mean a men’s league guy can skate with them because he did f***ing suicides as a little kid. Unbelievable.
ChiHawks10
Registered User
We can just end it here. You're seeming to miss the point I'm trying to make... as for the bolded, that's not the point being made...
- Aug 24, 2011
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ChiHawks10
Registered User
That 30 years of experience playing the sport, and 15 years of coaching it, is plenty of experience to draw conclusions from. The fact it's not NHL experience isn't relevant. It's still more to draw on than someone without that experience, or with less experience. Your posts come across like the experience isn't relevant at all, simply because it's not NHL experience, and that's not remotely close to the truth.
The point he was trying to make, is that the argument behind "burning out" is not valid because he's drawing from his own experiences that the physiology is the same. Because any hockey player trained the same way for their entire lives(not exactly the same, but fundamentally) with regards to conditioning and endurance. The way the heart pumps oxygen that the lungs take in, and distributes it to the rest of the body and muscles during strenuous activity is the same whether you're 15 or 25 years old, or whether you're an NHL player, or a former college player, or a youth player. The rest and recovery is the same for someone 15 or 25(at least up to certain ages), or an NHL player, or a college player, or a youth player. The thing being discussed is the body burning out, which as long as proper rest and recovery steps are taken, should not happen. And he's drawing on 30 years of playing the game to come to that conclusion. Week to week to week, all throughout the men's league seasons, he feels the same for each game, as long as he rests and recovers properly. And I'd agree with him based upon my own experiences. I was skating 5 days a week in my prime. I never felt any different from game 1 of the season to game 30. I didn't "burn out". So it makes sense that it would translate to the highest levels where you train even harder to be in better shape, to prevent that.
As an example. My senior year of HS, I played in two leagues with my team, and played about 45 games that season between the two. I didn't feel any different from game 1, to game 10, to game 45. I felt the same before each game(as long as I wasn't sick, or injured, obviously).
Now, for my age, that was intense hockey. I played hard every game. I played at 110%, balls to the wall, every game, every shift. And I felt fine each game, because I was properly trained/conditioned for that level of play/activity. So NHL players, who are trained/conditioned for their level of play, should also feel fine, whether game 1 or game 82, or game 100 in the playoffs.
You see how hard guys play in the playoffs in the NHL, right? Do you really think those guys "burn out" after seeing them play harder than any other time during the season for anywhere from 4-28 games? No. They don't burn out. Because they're trained NOT to burn out. Their physiology in their body is programmed to put up with those rigors after 30 or 40 years of playing the sport at the highest levels. They train, condition, rest, and recover, specifically to keep that from happening.
Now the only time you'll see guys potentially start to "burn out" is at the tail ends of their career, when they're getting into their mid to late 30s, and the body just doesn't function at the same efficiency as it did when you were younger. When it takes more rest time and recovery time to be back to peak efficiency. Which is why you'll see veterans like a Hossa(when he was still playing) get more off days, not skate on optional skate days, etc. Because his body needs more time to rest and recover. With that, there's a valid argument to be made about burning out. But a 30 year old professional athlete, in peak physical shape... should not burn out, and I'll gladly say, definitively, that "burning out" is not the issue. Kane is hurt, and it's the only explanation, based upon my educated opinion/experience.
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My guess is you’re in a huge calorie deficit so that’s why you’re low energy. I doubt it has much to do with the working out, but that’s not helping obviously.
Check out some TDEE calculators just to give you a better idea what your actual maintenance calories should be around. If you want to lose weight, subtract just a few hundred from that total to target no more than a pound a week, or even less. Otherwise it will affect your muscle as well.
Trust me, up your calories. I’m at 2600 and maintaining at 5’8” and a mostly desk job. In the gym 4 days a week with zero cardio. If you’re low on carbs, you’ll be low on energy too. My guess is your maintenance calories are more around 3K at least, but I dunno your height, exercise levels, or daily calorie expenditure at work/home.
- Aug 24, 2011
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Thanks for the reply. I do appreciate it. I think you’re underselling the differences between the athletic abilities and fitness of an NHLer compared to a lower level player.
Physiology is not the same between every 25 year old. The basic processes are, yes. But there are things that natural athletes are simply better at. Not any person can just train as hard as an NHLer does and make it. There are genetic differences between people and this affects muscle size, strength, recovery, endurance, fast twitch and slow twitch muscle fiber composition, flexibility, etc...and a lot of these things are done at better or worse levels due to genetically specific protein production.
We’ll just have to agree to disagree. I didn’t mean to put down your brother’s playing career so my apologies if that’s what happened.
Physiology is not the same between every 25 year old. The basic processes are, yes. But there are things that natural athletes are simply better at. Not any person can just train as hard as an NHLer does and make it. There are genetic differences between people and this affects muscle size, strength, recovery, endurance, fast twitch and slow twitch muscle fiber composition, flexibility, etc...and a lot of these things are done at better or worse levels due to genetically specific protein production.
We’ll just have to agree to disagree. I didn’t mean to put down your brother’s playing career so my apologies if that’s what happened.
ChiHawks10
Registered User
And I didn't take it that way. I was just trying to point out that it has relevance to the discussions on here, just like anything when it comes to experience. Because I had noticed you kept responding in different threads that it "wasn't NHL experience," so it doesn't translate, or is irrelevant. It is relevant, though. In hockey, the youth programs follow the standards and development model given to them by USA hockey, which basically oversees all things hockey in the country. It's who puts on your coaching clinics, which are taught by people that are using all the professional systems and models, to develop the kids, that the pros use. Then those newly trained coaches coach their players the same way they, themselves, were taught to coach them. Because it better prepares them to step in as the next round of NHL players. They want players taught to play the game a specific way.
Yeah I know some athletes, though not all, are genetically more suited to be athletes. Like Duncs can actually absorb more oxygen through his lungs than your average person, I believe. I would argue that's probably the minority, though. More hockey players just train harder/train right, eat right, and condition themselves to play through years and years of time on the ice. Hockey players are also weird in a sense. Like I said, stand many of them next to other pro athletes, and you'd never guess the hockey player was a pro athlete. They just don't have that "look" if you will. A lot of hockey athleticism comes from a lifetime of playing, and not just hitting the gym religiously, 7 days a week, like many athletes in other sports can do. Your best hockey players are the ones who spent their life on the ice 5, 6, 7 days a week, year round. How many NFL players do you see who picked up the sport in like high school, or even college? They were fast runners, so the football team made them a receiver, or running back when they normally ran as a sprinter in track. Now look at NHL players... you'll never see one who just started playing the game in college. Ever. The game is just not the same as most pro sports, and the experience of playing the game for a very long time is super relevant in this sport, at all levels.
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- Aug 24, 2011
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Agreed. Quick example, I brought Alex Ovechkin a bucket of beer one time and shook his hand. The guy is a monster. Every bit of that 6'3", 235lbs. He's definitely got some pudge on him but he's a huge, strong dude. You can tell he's an athlete but he definitely isn't ripped. Hossa and Kieth are though.
ChiHawks10
Registered User
Right. Stick Toews in a lineup next to a handful of NFL wide receivers. Toews doesn't look like a pro athlete, in comparison, he looks like he's a guy in good shape. The others just look like it, because a lot of their sport is dependent on working out in the gym, whereas a lot of hockey training is dependent on just putting in the time on the ice.
Cool story, though.
Well....you would be right! (most likely)
Labs came back all within normal limit.
5'11", 183lbs, 4 days of intense lifting, sedentary job . I believe my TDEE came back around 2800 cals but it's hard to eat that much clean
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Everybody staying in shape?
I'm in to 36 pants. I got some 36 waist shorts out of mothballs simply to see how close I was and lo and behold - I was able to button them without danger of breaking a window with a button projectile.
They're a little snug but I could easily wear them if I wanted to. I'm feeling pretty good. Next stop 34? That would be college waist for me.
After a certain age - do NOT let fast food be a staple of your diet. It kills you slowly. I still can't believe how much better I feel overall since I got off of that crap. Every month is like a new level of better health.
I'm in to 36 pants. I got some 36 waist shorts out of mothballs simply to see how close I was and lo and behold - I was able to button them without danger of breaking a window with a button projectile.
They're a little snug but I could easily wear them if I wanted to. I'm feeling pretty good. Next stop 34? That would be college waist for me.
After a certain age - do NOT let fast food be a staple of your diet. It kills you slowly. I still can't believe how much better I feel overall since I got off of that crap. Every month is like a new level of better health.
Slowly but surely getting that Squat up. It's absolutely brutal. Think I'm switching from overhand to switch grip on deadlift at this weight.
5RM
BP 237.5
DL 272.5
SQ 227.5
OHP 122.5
5RM
BP 237.5
DL 272.5
SQ 227.5
OHP 122.5
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