Head Coach Search - Botts has a list and he's checking it twice

[joshjull]

Since the cocaptins left, he’s coached 10 seasons as a head coach. In those 10, he’s won just 2 division titles and gotten last the first round of the playoffs just once. He also only made the playoffs 4 of those 10 years (in a league where over half the teams make it). Aside from a couple nice runs, his career as a coach has been a seminar in mediocrity. Add in that he’s been out of the game for a couple years, and there were questions about the game passing him by when he left Dallas...

I love ruff. I grew up with him as our coach. I’ll always have fond memories. But him as our coach just doesn’t interest me at all. President? Sure. Coach? Not at all. It would feel like a plea to be average.

I’m not really interested in Ruff as head coach either but this is pretty poor reasoning. The talent a coach works with has an impact on what they can do. None of those teams were expected to be division champs.

Why would you expect Lindy to have the same level of success with the roster that was left after the co-captains were gone as he did with them (and others) still in the lineup). He basically had the core leadership as well as his far and away best two players leave for nothing. Were those post captain teams supposed to win division titles and he couldn’t get them there? I don’t think so. After the captains left we were a bubble team that finished with 90,91,100,96 and 89 points under Lindy.

As for his team in Dallas, the Stars had missed the playoffs for 5 straight years before he got hired. He got them to the playoffs his first season and was out in round 1. Missed the next season with I only 1point less than the Stars team that made it this year (92pts to 93pts). Made 2nd round the year after. Then missed again leading to his firing. Hitch took over and also missed the playoffs last year. I’m not sure I’d put their struggles on Lindy. Especially with their terrible goaltending that was finally addressed with Bishop after Lindy left.

Hard to argue his results were under achieving in either case as opposed to get roughly what you should expect from what he was working with. His last season as a head coach (16-17) was his only sub .500 season in those years. Stars had 79pts that year which, for context, is the Disco era Sabres level of points. Much of that season was a goaltending fiasco for the Stars.

 

[Chainshot]

I’m more worried about getting leftover assistants again than who the head coach is going to be.

Payne was widely praised for his work in both St. Louis and LA. Smith's work with the defensemen in Carolina (and the rumbles that he's likely to be retained) was worthwhile. Hajt though...

 

[WeDislikeEich]

I’m not sure how I’d feel about Lindy coming back. I have mixed emotions on it.

He’s not my first choice by any means, but he’s definitely not my last choice either.

A couple potential positives -


He was here during some of the good times + winning years and knows how this organization was run back then.

Maybe he can help Botterill and co. figure out some of the issues we currently have. Maybe he would notice things that have changed for the worse since his last tenure?



Also, with his history w/the Sabres and having had success here before + being a die-hard Buffalo guy through and through, maybe he could help instill some pride in these current players in playing for the Sabres again and pulling on that sweater.



Another thing I’ll say is that when Lindy was here, the players definitely weren’t running things. He was pretty clearly in charge and the players knew it.

For example -

Inside the Sabres: It comes down to a matter of respect

After the Sabres beat the Lightning, Miller refused to talk to me, other than yelling a few words.

We had a long, calm chat after returning to Buffalo. Miller insisted he wasn't calling out Ruff, and he was very adamant as to why.

He was scared of the coach. He said Ruff was in charge of his career and playing time. Miller was worried if he crossed him, he could be benched or shipped out of town.

I was flabbergasted. With the Bills lacking star power, Miller was easily the most popular athlete in Buffalo. He'd backstopped the team to consecutive appearances in the conference finals. He was the Great American Hope with the Vancouver Olympics a couple of years away.

I thought it was crazy Miller would be worried about the coach. If anything, I figured Ruff should be worried about losing a power struggle to Miller.

 

[Irving Zisman]

Delete.

 

[dotcommunism]

Payne was widely praised for his work in both St. Louis and LA. Smith's work with the defensemen in Carolina (and the rumbles that he's likely to be retained) was worthwhile. Hajt though...

Yeah, but if they let him go they'll have to find someone else whose father was a Sabre

 

[sabremike]

Yeah, but if they let him go they'll have to find someone else whose father was a Sabre

Bring back Marcus Foligno as a player coach. Problem solved!

 

[Sabre the Win]

I hate where this thread has gone.

Not even a month ago the entire board was adamant about hiring outside of the organization and staying away from past Sabres.

Now we pine over Boughner and Lindy....

We have officially hit rock bottom here so much so this thread looks like a 3rd world country full of despair and trash posts littered everywhere.

 

[truthbluth]

Since the cocaptins left, he’s coached 10 seasons as a head coach. In those 10, he’s won just 2 division titles and gotten last the first round of the playoffs just once. He also only made the playoffs 4 of those 10 years (in a league where over half the teams make it). Aside from a couple nice runs, his career as a coach has been a seminar in mediocrity. Add in that he’s been out of the game for a couple years, and there were questions about the game passing him by when he left Dallas...

I love ruff. I grew up with him as our coach. I’ll always have fond memories. But him as our coach just doesn’t interest me at all. President? Sure. Coach? Not at all. It would feel like a plea to be average.

Well, both of these arguments make sense to me if the board weren’t pining for Todd McLellan and Alain Vigneult. I’m still primarily on the Sheldon Keefe train, but if we are committed to a retread, I think Lindy is as good as any.

 

[oldgoalie]

I hate where this thread has gone.

Not even a month ago the entire board was adamant about hiring outside of the organization and staying away from past Sabres.

Now we pine over Boughner and Lindy....

We have officially hit rock bottom here so much so this thread looks like a 3rd world country full of despair and trash posts littered everywhere.

no former players. no prior coaches. not even Lindy. just...no!

 

[Dreakon13]

My gut at the moment is that it's going to be Taylor.

I bet if Housley had just a little more success, the plan was to keep him for another season or two before canning him to promote a more prepared/seasoned Taylor... but the colossal failure the second half of 18/19 was, they had to expedite things. Which means probably shopping around for a vet coach to hold the fort for a few years, but with guys like Q and McLellan passing on us and options becoming more and more limited, they probably just roll with Taylor a little earlier than planned.

Which I agree is too soon. But I like what I've heard of Taylor. He's honestly one of the more intriguing options, and entirely realistic.

 

[SharkInABoloTie]

I'd be fine with Paul MacLean. Where is he at the moment?

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

Why would you be fairly certain about something for which there is no evidence either way?

I think that question can be asked in every page on every thread...every other post in the Botterill threads.

 

[truthbluth]

I love the rationality of, “no former Sabres because Phil Housley and Jason Botterill suck, therefore, former Sabres suck.” Peak Buffalo logic.

Btw guys, I hate to rain on your parade, but Tails is a, dun dun dunnnnn, former Sabre.

 

[Sabre the Win]

I love the rationality of, “no former Sabres because Phil Housley and Jason Botterill suck, therefore, former Sabres suck.” Peak Buffalo logic.

It goes deeper than that.

 

[Archie Lee]

I’m not really interested in Ruff as head coach either but this is pretty poor reasoning. The talent a coach works with has an impact on what they can do. None of those teams were expected to be division champs.

Why would you expect Lindy to have the same level of success with the roster that was left after the co-captains were gone as he did with them (and others) still in the lineup). He basically had the core leadership as well as his far and away best two players leave for nothing. Were those post captain teams supposed to win division titles and he couldn’t get them there? I don’t think so. After the captains left we were a bubble team that finished with 90,91,100,96 and 89 points under Lindy.

As for his team in Dallas, the Stars had missed the playoffs for 5 straight years before he got hired. He got them to the playoffs his first season and was out in round 1. Missed the next season with I only 1point less than the Stars team that made it this year (92pts to 93pts). Made 2nd round the year after. Then missed again leading to his firing. Hitch took over and also missed the playoffs last year. I’m not sure I’d put their struggles on Lindy. Especially with their terrible goaltending that was finally addressed with Bishop after Lindy left.

Hard to argue his results were under achieving in either case as opposed to get roughly what you should expect from what he was working with. His last season as a head coach (16-17) was his only sub .500 season in those years. Stars had 79pts that year which, for context, is the Disco era Sabres level of points. Much of that season was a goaltending fiasco for the Stars.

I think this is well-stated.

Looking at Ruff's record I would say that the argument for him is that the teams he coaches tend to reach a level of play that is equal to the sum of their parts. In that he would be a safe choice. If Botterill is of the view that last year's roster underachieved due to the job done by the head coach, then a logical choice for the next head coach would be a guy who he is comfortable will get out of the roster at least as much as it is reasonably capable of.

 

[Gabrielor]

Man, we really need good news soon. Every active thread this morning is depressing.

 

[Buffaloed]

Man, we really need good news soon. Every active thread this morning is depressing.

I'm trying Amerks Immersion Therapy
GDT: - AHL Playoffs - Game 1 - Amerks v. Marlies (4/19 7:00 PM)

 

[Gabrielor]

I'm trying Amerks Immersion Therapy
GDT: - AHL Playoffs - Game 1 - Amerks v. Marlies (4/19 7:00 PM)

I obviously want the Amerks to make it as far along as possible.....but a small stupid part of me wonders if Botterill will still consider the season at large a success if they get swept.

 

[Mattilaus]

I am fairly certain that "he was never given an offer to turn down" is us trying to save face after he met with Botts as a courtesy and informed him he already decided to go to LA.

This is the problem with threads like this. Something gets reported that is contrary to what people want to believe and they ignore it so they can continue to dump on everything. This kind of attitude means none of you will ever be happy because no matter what is reported you will just go on believing the worst. This kind of crap is everywhere these days and is the foundation of stuff like the anti-vax movement and flat earthers. Ignore the reports and ignore the facts and continue to believe stuff you have literally no basis to believe.

 

[dugman]

Nice article in today’s Athletic about Taylor. Sounds like he’s done well with both young players and vets in Rochester.

 

[Dreakon13]

Would people be open to a feel-good year or two with Lindy, with the idea being to get Taylor some more time (hopefully succeeding) in Rochester? I kinda would.

 

[sabremike]

This is the problem with threads like this. Something gets reported that is contrary to what people want to believe and they ignore it so they can continue to dump on everything. This kind of attitude means none of you will ever be happy because no matter what is reported you will just go on believing the worst. This kind of crap is everywhere these days and is the foundation of stuff like the anti-vax movement and flat earthers. Ignore the reports and ignore the facts and continue to believe stuff you have literally no basis to believe.

" Sir, this is a Wendys."

 

[MayDay]

It's hard to predict which coaches will succeed or fail. Sometimes retread coaches work, and sometimes they don't. Sometimes green coaches work, and sometimes they don't. That's why I don't want to adopt a strong opinion about any candidates.

My only criteria is, I don't want to hire a guy that no other NHL team would even consider hiring as head coach. That's my main problem with the "former Sabre" thing. At this point in his career, no other NHL team would consider Lindy Ruff to fill a head coaching vacancy - so why are we even talking about it?

It's also why I was ok with the Housley hiring at the time - he had built up some rep from the World Juniors and assistant coach in NSH and was talked about around the league as a future HC candidate. Housley would have been a reasonable hire for many teams at that time.

Whether they are former Sabres or not, I just want legitimate candidates. I don't want to hire someone for whom the main reason they are even considered for the job is because they have a previous connection with the organization

 

[Mattilaus]

" Sir, this is a Wendys."

I'll take this response and your previous ones where you ignore anything resembling reported facts as indication you didn't actually come here for genuine discussion today.

 

[Buffaloed]

Would people be open to a feel-good year or two with Lindy, with the idea being to get Taylor some more time (hopefully succeeding) in Rochester? I kinda would.

No thanks, if Ruff is brought back he keeps the head coaching job as long as he's successful. The idea of bringing in a placeholder while Taylor gets more experience is defeatist. It's amounts to saying let's tread water lose a few more years until Taylor's ready. If you like Taylor hire him and get him some great assistants.