HC Slovan Bratislava

[tobu]

Where would the money to develop domestic hockey come from? No Slovak team has ever made the Round of 16 in the CHL and the average attendance in domestic hockey is 1,663 so there's both a lot to do and little to work with.

The money comes with improved economy. The premise is that Slovakia keeps growing and catching up with the West. I for one follow the Slovak league and it has definitely improved over the past 3 years (I believe both attendance and TV ratings are growing) albeit still low numbers. Competitively sure, our champion is not making the last 16 yet, but that can change in the future. It still manages to steal some points of bigger teams, this season it was 1 point of Plzen and 3 points of Lugano, the previous season it was 3 points off Tappara and 3 points of Salzburg. It's not like our champion is getting sweeped.

 

[Albatros]

I don't know about television, but the average attendance has dropped from 1,879 the season before last to 1,837 last season and 1,663 this season. So it remains steadily behind the Norwegian and French leagues which have also seen falling numbers the last few years. The Czech second league is currently just 8 spectators behind. Slovan's return is a boost to the league surely, but the perspectives to Slovan beyond sentimental issues there seem bleak, many of the reasons for their departure still remain.

Banská Bystrica has finished last in their group both of their two years in the competition now, not with 0 points but anyway -14 goal difference in six games. Before them in the old format Nitra actually made it out of the group, but was then demolished 12:0 by the Czech side Vítkovice. There's space to improve surely, but so the gap is fairly dramatic and the league closer to the Belarusian or Norwegian leagues than the EBEL.

 

[tobu]

The attendance stats are skewed by some aspects. Like the fact that Kosice with the largest arena not making further than quarters two years in a row. Or the fact that this year's average numbers were skewed by the addition of two Hungarian teams, of which Budapest has average attendance of 600 and also the fact that Martin with a traditionally good average attendance was replaced by Detva with 600 average attendance as part of financial cleanup of those managements that behaved on par with Slovan, as in were generating losses. The main clubs like Trencin, Kosice, Banska Bystrica, Poprad have seen increases in attendance and Nitra standardly averaging near their max capacity. So my conclusion is, the league average attendance doesn't tell the story, TV ratings do a better job. I'll try to find some, but I'm just recalling what I heard Lintner, the head of the league claim.

There definitely is a league gap, I'm not disputing it, but I wouldn't go as far as call it dramatic. We both have bias of course. My premise however is, that Slovak league has the potential to improve and get on par with EBEL, there definitely is more domestic talent. It appears there will be min number of youth players per club imposed from next season, which is only a + for development. We already saw this year that young guns were competitive, see Samuel Bucek, who dominated the season and immediately got a contract in Liiga and invite to an NHL camp. I'm all for local development, it's a better route for us than imports, which financially we both agree, Slovak league can't afford to the same extend as EBEL.

 

[SoundAndFury]

One thing I found out in the previous conversations is that Slovaks will defend their league to no end. I mean I had paragraphs written to me how half of the teams in the Slovak league would be EBEL contenders...

Having said that, attendance drop is only down to expansion.. It applies to France too, they play almost double the number of games now.

 

[tobu]

Just one more "stat", when Slovan left extraliga, the average attendance dropped by 700 immediately after. Not only because of Slovan's domestic games, but also because Slovan traditionally sold out games away as well. With Slovan or let's say a competitive team from Bratislava in Slovak league, I wouldn't be surprised if the average attendance immediately jumps up by the said 700 to ~ 2500.

 

[geri]

so this story sucks to the maximum
liga association accepts slovan application and give 1 months to follow the rules- which is of course no debts and all players paid out.
aha ?
so IF slovan finds the 7 (?) million, they can join. GREAT- in that case they could have been staying in KHL as well

 

[SoundAndFury]

They can still reach settlements with players. Thing is if they go bankrupt everybody losses, pretty much. The problem with participation in the KHL was that they still would have needed a budget for the new season. Participating in Extraliga is 3-4 times cheaper with a still relatively competitive team.

 

[tobu]

Extraliga requires Slovan only to pay off its debts to players / KHL. The city however requires Slovan to pay off its debts for the arena. Conclusion is more or less the same, Slovan has 1 month to pay off pretty much all of its debts. I don't see this happening.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Extraliga requires Slovan only to pay off its debts to players / KHL. The city however requires Slovan to pay off its debts for the arena. Conclusion is more or less the same, Slovan has 1 month to pay off pretty much all of its debts. I don't see this happening.

Well they can ask for it and they should ask for it. But generally, in those situations, such hard-lining doesn't do any good and eventually, some pay-off settlements are reached.

If anyone is interested, Žalgiris Kaunas was in a very similar situation when the previous owner ran off to Russia leaving the club with 12,3 million euro debt in 2013. It's a grim situation but destroying the club with hard deadlines isn't in anybody's best interests either. Especially not the cities. They are just there to force the change more than anything.

 

[tobu]

Well they can ask for it and they should ask for it. But generally, in those situations, such hard-lining doesn't do any good and eventually, some pay-off settlements are reached.

If anyone is interested, Žalgiris Kaunas was in a very similar situation when the previous owner ran off to Russia leaving the club with 12,3 million euro debt in 2013. It's a grim situation but destroying the club with hard deadlines isn't in anybody's best interests either. Especially not the cities. They are just there to force the change more than anything.

The problem with Slovan is, that they were being given settlement calendars for several years now, which they also kinda ignored. The city was accused of charging too much for the arena, but what would the point in lowering rent be, when Slovan wasn't paying any anyway? I'm on the side of hardliners here, have the current management go bankrupt if they can't meet the last 1 month deadline, and in due process of liquidation, have them be forced to sell the Slovan brand to someone that will be better at managing it. Even if this means a year or two of no hockey for Slovan.

 

[geri]

Well they can ask for it and they should ask for it. But generally, in those situations, such hard-lining doesn't do any good and eventually, some pay-off settlements are reached.

If anyone is interested, Žalgiris Kaunas was in a very similar situation when the previous owner ran off to Russia leaving the club with 12,3 million euro debt in 2013. It's a grim situation but destroying the club with hard deadlines isn't in anybody's best interests either. Especially not the cities. They are just there to force the change more than anything.

you are right under normal circumstandings, but as tobu mentioned, this is going on now for years. NOW IT IS TIME FOR HARDLINE, to show the public and owner siroky it is not accepted anymore...
barry brust example, is more then 2 years not player of slovan, he is reported to still have 200,000 to get..

and i believe, a bankruptcy will not loose everything for players, 50-60 % can be achieved, depending how trademark is worth.

and the option for settlement-how should it work? 5-7 mio debts !?
assuming a 3 mio extraliga budget, and a 20 % profit = 600.000 per year. so it would take 10 years to pay off the debts

 

[Faterson]

Expecting an owner to do the basic things, like pay players on time and pay them what they are owed, is a nonstarter. Regardless of what league it's in, when an owner does that, he should no longer be owner.

??? Not sure if your post was written in English or Chinese, but I have no clue what the hell you're talking about. Are you suggesting that no NHL team is ever paying its players and subcontractors in full and on time? That would certainly be news to me. And that's the only thing I was talking about. Basic business sense and decency.

(Oh yeah, in post-Communist gubernias like Slovakia, many people equal capitalism with "let's **** everyone over as much as we can get away with", but sooner or later, the country will need to grow out of and get rid of that mentality.)

Except for two major differences. First, it's a two week tournament. Second, you're not Finns.

Thank heavens! One thing is certain: when properly managed, Slovaks can accomplish as much as, and possibly more than, the Finns. Slovaks typically lack self-discipline and experience, though. Combined with unwarranted pride and unwillingness to change their old ways, it's a recipe for disaster. Slovaks need a foreign manager – plain and simple. This is as true in business as in sports. I hope Ramsay, or someone like him (even if it was a Slovak coach imitating him), can continue.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

??? Not sure if your post was written in English or Chinese, but I have no clue what the hell you're talking about. Are you suggesting that no NHL team is ever paying its players and subcontractors in full and on time? That would certainly be news to me. And that's the only thing I was talking about. Basic business sense and decency.

(Oh yeah, in post-Communist gubernias like Slovakia, many people equal capitalism with "let's **** everyone over as much as we can get away with", but sooner or later, the country will need to grow out of and get rid of that mentality.)



Thank heavens! One thing is certain: when properly managed, Slovaks can accomplish as much as, and possibly more than, the Finns. Slovaks typically lack self-discipline and experience, though. Combined with unwarranted pride and unwillingness to change their old ways, it's a recipe for disaster. Slovaks need a foreign manager – plain and simple. This is as true in business as in sports. I hope Ramsay, or someone like him (even if it was a Slovak coach imitating him), can continue.

Not everyone on this website speaks fluent English. It does not mean you can be rude to those people. Having a owner who pays people on time and in full isn’t a necessity, it’s something that if the person doesn’t or can’t do they aren’t even considered. If the person does these things, then the team is a nonstarter. Even low level North American hockey gets paid on time and in full.

Success at the international level is different then having a good league or club team. Absolutely everything is different. A season is longer than a tournament, player selection is different since it’s essentially an all star team of people who have never played together, looking at Finland success this tournament and copying isn’t rational. Significantly better ability to produce players, significantly better development system, significantly better everything.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Not everyone on this website speaks fluent English.

I actually think the problem here was that your post was written in too fluent of English, not the other way around.

 

[Jussi]

Thank heavens! One thing is certain: when properly managed, Slovaks can accomplish as much as, and possibly more than, the Finns. Slovaks typically lack self-discipline and experience, though. Combined with unwarranted pride and unwillingness to change their old ways, it's a recipe for disaster. Slovaks need a foreign manager – plain and simple. This is as true in business as in sports. I hope Ramsay, or someone like him (even if it was a Slovak coach imitating him), can continue.

On club level, there isn't that much differences when it comes to Finland. There's plenty of stubborn clubs in Finland (the prime example being reluctance to reduce the regular season despite fans heavily favoring it) and it shows in their financial results.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

I actually think the problem here was that your post was written in too fluent of English, not the other way around.

Google translate is a savior for many times, fortunately. I would like to learn Russian for the obscure vorky links

 

[Faterson]

I actually think the problem here was that your post was written in too fluent of English, not the other way around.

Not really, and I'm a linguist (and fluent writers certainly wouldn't confuse then with than, for example). But that's fine – it happens to each of us including myself. What our friend originally wrote made zero sense, with the quote proving it, and our friend apparently wished to express the opposite of what he actually wrote, and in that case I absolutely agree with him.

 

[mkev400]

Not really, and I'm a linguist (and fluent writers certainly wouldn't confuse then with than, for example). [...]

Quite the opposite actually. Speaking from personal experience living in a native English speaking country (and having grown up in a non-english speaking country), I can tell you that mixing up then and than is a rather common mistake that native speakers make, especially when it comes to places like forums or in texts.

Have you ever visited one of the Canadian team forums on here? The mis-spellings of some (at times) simpler phrasings can give you nightmares

 

[geri]

So we rename this thread to language course
Let’s go back to the point..

Now it seams 7 mio € is the debt for pretty sure
Impossible to cover unless funds from owner comes which was not done the recent years so why now

 

[hansomreiste]

So we rename this thread to language course
Let’s go back to the point..

Now it seams 7 mio € is the debt for pretty sure
Impossible to cover unless funds from owner comes which was not done the recent years so why now

That's why we don't want to get to the point. Slovan is dead and I am not happy with this. Language talk is more fun.

 

[Jussi]

Quite the opposite actually. Speaking from personal experience living in a native English speaking country (and having grown up in a non-english speaking country), I can tell you that mixing up then and than is a rather common mistake that native speakers make, especially when it comes to places like forums or in texts.

Have you ever visited one of the Canadian team forums on here? The mis-spellings of some (at times) simpler phrasings can give you nightmares

Don't get me started on on the "could/should have" mis-spellings... Somewhat on topic, the abbreviation of million "mio" some eastern/central Europeans use is infuriating since it's not what we were taught.

 

[geri]

Sorry guys , usually my level is billions so for millions I use mainly just shortly mio.
Actually just when my boy is asking for gifts from me
By the way he just asked me to buy him Slovan, I discuss that with my wife at Sunday lunch

 

[Faterson]

I can tell you that mixing up then and than is a rather common mistake that native speakers make

But not fluent writers, which is what we were discussing. Of course, most people are incapable of using their native language properly – in Canada, in Slovakia, everywhere. And even those capable of doing so make mistakes (I certainly do), which is only human.

But as you guys say, we're severely off-topic. What's worse, Slovan is practically dead and off-topic in the KHL section on HFBoards, because it's no longer a KHL team.

The latest rumors are EBEL, because the Slovak league might reject Slovan, too, due to unpaid debts. To me, EBEL would be as bad a solution as the Slovak league. If Slovan can't play in the KHL (or NHL), the best solution would be to play in the Czech league, where it might be joined by, say, 3 other top Slovak teams, to form a "Slovak division". But the Czechs no longer want us, which is understandable. Who would want anything to do with the current Slovan with its current reputation? If the club ownership one day completely changes, we might see better days, but until then, the future is bleak.

 

[mkev400]

Well, short of going bankrupt and disappearing into the history of Slovak hockey, EBEL mightn’t be the worst option, at least the longer I think about it.
Clearly there is no going back to the KHL, so naturally the extraliga would be the ideal destination. But if the extraliga is sticking to it’s tough conditions on Slogans finances, then the EBEL would be a solid league with considerable budget savings, IF the EBEL is willing to admit Slovan under a medium to long term plan to get their house in order and pay off their debts, and to eventually rejoin the Slovak league (system).
Going dormant for even just a year is just not an option at all, if the brand and the attached history is to survive in any shape or form. I can’t recall any team that took a year out from competition and survived (loko Yaroslavl and the Brazilian football team excluded for obvious reasons). Usually going dormant for even a year, be it for financial reasons or arena reasons usually means the team either gets bought and moved or folds entirely to be forgotten, especially in a franchise type system as is common for a lot of hockey teams nowadays...

 

[Albatros]

If Slovan is not ready to commit then it wouldn't make much sense for the EBEL to admit them, it must also support league growth somehow.