HC Slovan Bratislava

Jussi

Registered User
Feb 28, 2002
91,490
11,121
Mojo Dojo Casa House
As many times before, you were right again.

I wonder if there's a version of the "aliens" meme but with "political climate"? Those of us who didn't fail math in school could say that when your expenses are vastly higher than your revenue, it's not a good sign for sustainability and when your "best" organization in the league according to it's own ranking makes 10-15 million euro losses every season, it just might be something else than "political climate".
 

hansomreiste

Registered User
Sep 23, 2015
1,625
237
Ankara
I will reply to the bold part.

Just a few words. Lev Prague left the league in 2014, but it did not prevent the league to expand with KRS.

So, I do not see any connection between any club leaving the KHL and its further expansion.

We all know why the European expansion was stopped after 2014. It has nothing to do with money, it is all about the political climate.

So, when the political climate is ready, the KHL will expand again.

And Lev, Medvescak, Yugra, Lada, Slovan whoever have nothing to do with it.

People tend to not see things when they close their eyes, yeah. First of all, KRS has nothing to do with European expansion. Moreover, it is a stupid team which serves no purpose at all. They couldn't even pick a regular arena to play in and kept going between Shanghai and Beijing. How is a Chinese team with no arena and an average of what, 900 people maybe, attendance supposed to be an example of KHL expansion? For the sake of your argument, I'd honestly keep them out. If anything, they are a failure.

If a sports organization is heavily affected by the political climate in the country, then just maybe it is too deeply involved with the politics, huh? If KHL is self-sustainable league where team owners make money and fans are willing to spend for their teams, then why would anyone care about political climate?

Even if we go through your path... What exactly makes you believe political climate will be ready? When? Let's say, it somehow is ready and everyone is in love with Russia and every rich man dreams of having a KHL club. They'll probably make around 2-3 million € a year but will spend around 10 million €. What does exactly make KHL profitable or interesting for any sports organization or sugar daddy? Especially when it is obvious that nobody in the west other than CSKA or SKA is allowed to make it to the conference finals?

There is one very simple fact: KHL clubs consistently register losses for very basic reasons. They make little money, they give too much to their players. Without significant amount of outside help, clubs can't survive. For the Russian teams, this is not a huge problem. Some companies or sponsors would always be willing to give a hand to their local club. But literally every expansion candidate from Europe is already doing fine in their own leagues and nobody is willing to spend five times more money to play in Siberia against some team most locals can't even pronounce. Do you have any solid argument? Let's assume that I can easily afford spending 20M € on a hockey club every year. I am the owner of Sparta Prague. If I keep my team in Czechia, my expenditure will be significantly less. Who knows, I might even make some profit. Even if I don't, the losses are minimal - it is nothing big when compared to the joy of giving the capital of the country a decent hockey team to cheer for. Moreover, with Sparta, I can always have a champion team. I always know we can play for the title if we make the right moves. In this case, for what reason would I like the idea of moving to KHL? Income will maybe increase like %10-15 but expenditures only to be a mid-table western conference team will spike up by at least %100. Why would switch over?

I'd be more than happy to see Czechia, Germany, Austria, Poland etc. (hopefully, all of them) in KHL. For most, it is not interesting but I would be soooo in love with a Sparta-Amur game. It is exotic. Spans the whole continent. Brings really good teams together. Really cool. The problem is that there is no incentive for this. This is like, "I want to have a great house with a pool. Oh and I also want a Ferrari."

Sure, that sounds very cool but why in the earth would anyone in power work to achieve that for you? People have different ideas, different wills and the ones who have money do not share the same ideas as we do. Simple as that. And if we take rich guys out of the equation and have a self-sustainable KHL spanning across two continents... We probably need 100 years for all countries in the league to have similar financial positions. Hockey clubs in Germany and Russia work in totally different ways.
 
Last edited:

Rigafan

Registered User
Jul 28, 2016
902
195
Europe
People tend to not see things when they close their eyes, yeah. First of all, KRS has nothing to do with European expansion. Moreover, it is a stupid team which serves no purpose at all.

Wasn't the deal that, Chinese wanted some rights to drilling/exploration of minerals in Siberia.. Putin said yes on condition of hockey team? I've heard that many times, they even mentioned it on RT News back when. So they have/are serving their purpose! Also thanks to Kunlun we now have, Kunlun, Kunlun VHL and Tsen Tou VHL. Sure most of them are full of Russians but some Chinese players are present, and there is now talk of China starting their own National League - Small progress thanks to Kunlun?
 

vorky

@vorkywh24
Jan 23, 2010
11,413
1,272
People tend to not see things when they close their eyes, yeah. First of all, KRS has nothing to do with European expansion. Moreover, it is a stupid team which serves no purpose at all. They couldn't even pick a regular arena to play in and kept going between Shanghai and Beijing. How is a Chinese team with no arena and an average of what, 900 people maybe, attendance supposed to be an example of KHL expansion? For the sake of your argument, I'd honestly keep them out. If anything, they are a failure.

If a sports organization is heavily affected by the political climate in the country, then just maybe it is too deeply involved with the politics, huh? If KHL is self-sustainable league where team owners make money and fans are willing to spend for their teams, then why would anyone care about political climate?

Even if we go through your path... What exactly makes you believe political climate will be ready? When? Let's say, it somehow is ready and everyone is in love with Russia and every rich man dreams of having a KHL club. They'll probably make around 2-3 million € a year but will spend around 10 million €. What does exactly make KHL profitable or interesting for any sports organization or sugar daddy? Especially when it is obvious that nobody in the west other than CSKA or SKA is allowed to make it to the conference finals?

There is one very simple fact: KHL clubs consistently register losses for very basic reasons. They make little money, they give too much to their players. Without significant amount of outside help, clubs can't survive. For the Russian teams, this is not a huge problem. Some companies or sponsors would always be willing to give a hand to their local club. But literally every expansion candidate from Europe is already doing fine in their own leagues and nobody is willing to spend five times more money to play in Siberia against some team most locals can't even pronounce. Do you have any solid argument? Let's assume that I can easily afford spending 20M € on a hockey club every year. I am the owner of Sparta Prague. If I keep my team in Czechia, my expenditure will be significantly less. Who knows, I might even make some profit. Even if I don't, the losses are minimal - it is nothing big when compared to the joy of giving the capital of the country a decent hockey team to cheer for. Moreover, with Sparta, I can always have a champion team. I always know we can play for the title if we make the right moves. In this case, for what reason would I like the idea of moving to KHL? Income will maybe increase like %10-15 but expenditures only to be a mid-table western conference team will spike up by at least %100. Why would switch over?

I'd be more than happy to see Czechia, Germany, Austria, Poland etc. (hopefully, all of them) in KHL. For most, it is not interesting but I would be soooo in love with a Sparta-Amur game. It is exotic. Spans the whole continent. Brings really good teams together. Really cool. The problem is that there is no incentive for this. This is like, "I want to have a great house with a pool. Oh and I also want a Ferrari."

Sure, that sounds very cool but why in the earth would anyone in power work to achieve that for you? People have different ideas, different wills and the ones who have money do not share the same ideas as we do. Simple as that. And if we take rich guys out of the equation and have a self-sustainable KHL spanning across two continents... We probably need 100 years for all countries in the league to have similar financial positions. Hockey clubs in Germany and Russia work in totally different ways.
Here we are. Again.

I just wanted to show you with the KRS that there is no connection between a club leaving & expansion.

You may dislike the KRS, your choice. I believe Chinese players are glad for the team.

Political climate. Can you imagine an expansion to Europe at the time of the biggest anti-Russian hysteria in Europe? It was a wise move not to expand at the time. Now, we are living different times, and no, I will not talk all the details, because we are at hockey board.

Do not get it personally, but your following words are the most popular propaganda. Seems, it is still cool.

But literally every expansion candidate from Europe is already doing fine in their own leagues and nobody is willing to spend five times more money to play in Siberia against some team most locals can't even pronounce.
Your definition of "expansion candidate from Europe" may differ from clubs negotiating with the KHL.

And "play in Siberia against some team most locals can't even pronounce" will always be cool. Believe me, there are people willing to play against such teams. Btw, perhaps they even will not have to. I have talked about it many times at these boards.

To reply to you, European clubs with such an attitude will not join the KHL.

Perhaps you know that a KHL club can offer to its owner/sponsors benefits which any European club/league is not able to do.

I can agree with the following
People have different ideas, different wills and the ones who have money do not share the same ideas as we do. Simple as that.
 

Jussi

Registered User
Feb 28, 2002
91,490
11,121
Mojo Dojo Casa House
Perhaps you know that a KHL club can offer to its owner/sponsors benefits which any European club/league is not able to do.

So basically bribe? As for sponsors, there's very little interest to investing in Russia nowadays, not just because of the sanctions. For example, of Finnish companies, only 40% believe the current level of exports to hold due to decline in growth in Russia and declining private consumption. Several Finnish companies have pulled out of Russia already. They don't see business opportunities there anymore.
 

geri

Registered User
Jan 21, 2015
289
14
Vienna&DelrayBeachFL
Owners of Slovan should decide very fast. If they want to play in Slovak League, they have to apply until end of May. There is no Exception. Even for Slovan.
If they don’t get money from new investor they get bankrupt, fintito- so how should they play even in extra liga
 

tobu

Registered User
Jan 10, 2013
2,141
1,173
Bratislava, Slovakia
No investor just confirmed. Slovan applying back to Extraliga. They have no idea where they will play though, and the city already told them they can't play at Ondreja Nepela arena unless they pay their 1mio+ debt, which they likely won't. I think they will end up renting the little arena in Ruzinov. Shame on Siroky btw!
 

slovakiasnextone

Registered User
Jul 7, 2008
5,741
254
Slovakia
No investor just confirmed. Slovan applying back to Extraliga. They have no idea where they will play though, and the city already told them they can't play at Ondreja Nepela arena unless they pay their 1mio+ debt, which they likely won't. I think they will end up renting the little arena in Ruzinov. Shame on Siroky btw!

And technically they have to pay off all debts to players before they are approved for Slovak league. Tjough in reality I expect some payment calendars solution for that.

As for playing in Ruzinov, they played there before Nepela rink reconstruction and back then I believe it was one of the reason Ruzinov's men's team who were playing 1.liga folded. These days HC Bratislava is also playing 1.liga there, so hopefully they won't have the same fate.
 

tobu

Registered User
Jan 10, 2013
2,141
1,173
Bratislava, Slovakia
And technically they have to pay off all debts to players before they are approved for Slovak league. Tjough in reality I expect some payment calendars solution for that.

As for playing in Ruzinov, they played there before Nepela rink reconstruction and back then I believe it was one of the reason Ruzinov's men's team who were playing 1.liga folded. These days HC Bratislava is also playing 1.liga there, so hopefully they won't have the same fate.
What's there to stop an investor that wanted a KHL team in Slovakia just create its own team and agree with the city to rent out the arena? Fresh start, no debts.
 

Peter25

Registered User
Sep 20, 2003
8,491
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KHL is ****ing joke league thats crumbling before our very eyes. Hilarious.
Expansion out of Russia was a mistake to begin with. It adds nothing to Russian hockey. These teams add very little competitive value to the KHL and they are practically run with Russian money - money that could and should be spent in Russian hockey. It is a crime that teams such as Lada and Novokuznetsk are not in the KHL but teams such as Slovan, Riga and previously Medvescak are.

I don't have a problem with Barys and Kunlun though since they are run with Kazakh and Chinese money. And Barys is competitive too.

Jokerit is a borderline case for me. They are run with Russian money but they do add good competitive value to the league. A case could be made that young and inexperienced Russian players develop when they get to play against Jokerit, but no such cases can be made for Slovan or Riga.

My advice for Rotenberg and compaty is that FORGET further expansion to western Europe and finally start to develop Russian hockey. A good start would be to prevent young players from leaving to North America before they even turn 18.
 
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TheWhiskeyThief

Registered User
Dec 24, 2017
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nuts2-disposable-income-europe.jpg
What's there to stop an investor that wanted a KHL team in Slovakia just create its own team and agree with the city to rent out the arena? Fresh start, no debts.

You get the same result: a city that doesn’t have the disposable income to support a club at the KHL budget levels.
 
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tobu

Registered User
Jan 10, 2013
2,141
1,173
Bratislava, Slovakia
You get the same result: a city that doesn’t have the disposable income to support a club at the KHL budget levels.
True, but the premise is that this will end up improving over time. Although yea, running a business on some decade long premise is stupid. I suppose it's better we just work on making the Extraliga better. If an international league, then a geographically more closer one with one ore more of our neighbors.
 

hansomreiste

Registered User
Sep 23, 2015
1,625
237
Ankara
What's there to stop an investor that wanted a KHL team in Slovakia just create its own team and agree with the city to rent out the arena? Fresh start, no debts.

I think there is nothing to stop this, just like there is no investor willing to do it. Any investor perfectly knows they will keep losing money in the long run. They either have to be very fond of KHL and hockey in Bratislava or simply use the chance to get some business deals in Russia, like "I will bankroll a competitive Slovak ice hockey team in the KHL but you rich Russian guys give me some contracts & business opportunities in Russia".

Other than that, I don't see any reason for an investor to come up with this idea. Slovan are by no means a joke team yet you see how it all came to an end in KHL. Any other team from Slovakia and the fate will be the same unless you're willing to keep pumping around 10 to 15 million Euros to remain competitive, probably only to get destroyed by CSKA & SKA in the first round. Second if you are lucky.

Personally speaking, I'd love to own and forge a competitive KHL team. If I were a rich guy, I'd spend lots of money for my hockey club and think of this money as something spent on a really expensive hobby. However, actual rich guys care about their money and business. This is why they are rich and I dream here in front of a laptop about owning a KHL club.
 

ForumNamePending

Registered User
Mar 31, 2012
2,666
1,022
You're all laughing now, but I assure each and everyone of you, while the rest of the hockey world wastes their time playing checkers, the great Chernyshenko is mastering 3-D chess. I mean sure, on the surface Slovan leaving, and teetering on the brink of financial ruin, might look like a set back for the KHL, but for those of us with the intellect to perform a proper analysis of the situation, this is clearly just another instance of the KHL flexing its considerable wealth, diplomacy and will power.
 

Exarz

Registered User
Jan 1, 2014
2,415
339
Helsinki
At this point, with Slovan's departure, I'd advocate for Jokerit to leave the league as well.
Which most likely will happen in 2022 when their contract expires (if not God forbid Jokerit becomes bankrupt before that). Sure, I guess Jokerit's losses will be less without the Russian ownership as more firms are willing to sponsor the team but there is not a single chance that Jokerit will make it break-even. At best, I'm guessing the losses will still be 2 million euros and I don't think Kurri wants to spend that money every season.
 

amoboko

Waikato Junglist
Jun 24, 2015
356
135
Belgium
It's a pity. It was not the best team but a fun team to watch. With the Eastern European teams leaving ( Zagreb, Bratislava, maybe Jokerit in some time) will the KHL become a Russian Elite league on it's own? Or how will it evolve over the coming seasons?
 

alko

Registered User
Oct 20, 2004
9,380
3,098
Slovakia
www.slovakhockey.sk
What's there to stop an investor that wanted a KHL team in Slovakia just create its own team and agree with the city to rent out the arena? Fresh start, no debts.

That must be some very very rich man, that will take it as a playground. That his ice-team will be his new toy, his passion. With yearly income in milliards of €, because he will know, he will flush millions every year in this toy.
I dont see such person in Slovakia. That must be some guy from Arabic region. Or from Silicon Valley. Or from China.
 

geri

Registered User
Jan 21, 2015
289
14
Vienna&DelrayBeachFL
this is a homemade desaster unfortuneatly.
bad managment and even worse ownership.
this is the MAIN reason why slovan didnt get enough money from sponsors.
no "normal" company wanted to work with a siroky owned club..
what else should be the problem to get a (small) 12 mio KHL budget financed?
when almost 4-5 mio from ticket sales ? in a region together with vienna where all the big international companies are seated covering easter europe market.
would be enough to sponsor the gap for the budget..in a hockey crazy town like bratislava...

i hope the involved do their job now? the creditors and city of bratislava (arena) must immediate send slovan into bankrupty. to get rid of siroky, sell the slovan brand to an investor, who starts from zero..
thats the only chnace for a future...
nonsense like to play now in extraliga or EBEl with a millions dept you can forget
 

tobu

Registered User
Jan 10, 2013
2,141
1,173
Bratislava, Slovakia
It's more and more looking like the club will go completely bankrupt. Slovak Extraliga requires the club to pay all the owed salaries, which on itself could be doable, however, the city is requiring the club to pay its debt for the arena in full, which looks like Slovan has no capacity to manage. Furthermore, the Ruzinov stadium is claiming they have no free slots for Slovan either and that they would also question the sense in renting a stadium to a renter that does not pay anyway. Furthermore, HC Bratislava playing in Ruzinov has an ambition to make it into Extraliga anyway.

Slovan has no players, no coaches, no stadium, and approx 7mio Eur in debt. It's as good as done.
 
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