Havoc lays off staffers

CrazyEddie20

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It doesn't? If they were selling tickets and sponsorships, things that, you know, financially support continued operation, then there wouldn't be any reason to lay them off.

So now, they're prepping for a season for which "the plan is still to start the season at the league-mandated time frame of mid to late December." They're just not doing so with the people who would be selling tickets or sponsorships during the offseason.

Maybe this stanches the bleeding for a few months, but it may cause a bigger injury to the organization in the future.

Keith is known for being penny wise and pound foolish.
 

JMCx4

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... Maybe this stanches the bleeding for a few months, but it may cause a bigger injury to the organization in the future.

Keith is known for being penny wise and pound foolish.
The tone of his statement when I first read it last week seemed to indicate a difference of opinion between him & the League as to how resumption decisions were being made. "the league-mandated time frame" in particular could be a poke at the League offices and/or his fellow BOG members for overriding his vote on return-to-play. You may have more insight into the pieces in this SPHL chess game, but dissension in the ranks could kill their 2020-21 season quicker than any virus will.
 

CrazyEddie20

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The tone of his statement when I first read it last week seemed to indicate a difference of opinion between him & the League as to how resumption decisions were being made. "the league-mandated time frame" in particular could be a poke at the League offices and/or his fellow BOG members for overriding his vote on return-to-play. You may have more insight into the pieces in this SPHL chess game, but dissension in the ranks could kill their 2020-21 season quicker than any virus will.

Yeah, I get that too. For a long time, he was the guy who was really in charge, mainly because his team had the best attendance and the other owners resented him for it. He always saw himself as the smartest guy in the room, even though he really just happened to be in the best market and ran things as cheaply as possible. He pulled Jim Combs' strings for a long time and got away with a lot of salary cap shenanigans. He did keep the league afloat for longer than it should have survived, and he's likely the only reason the SPHL is still around.

But he's also an arrogant jerk, the kind who probably doesn't believe that Covid-19 is real and thinks the league should start back in October.
 
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Jackets Woodchuck

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If the SPHL fails (I'm assuming the FPHL goes under too if this happens), does this pretty well scare off anyone from trying this level again and permanently solidify the ECHL as the floor for minor professional hockey?
 

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If the SPHL fails (I'm assuming the FPHL goes under too if this happens), does this pretty well scare off anyone from trying this level again and permanently solidify the ECHL as the floor for minor professional hockey?

I would think that the SPHL failing due to a pandemic wouldn't really say anything about "A" level hockey at all in terms of being a viable business. Lots of well-established companies are having issues, so a low-level sports league going under wouldn't be a shock. I'm thinking it would certainly keep the door open for a future attempt once things get close to the "old" normal.
 

SemireliableSource

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It’ll be interesting to see what others do. Kinda surprised at some of the teams that haven’t done this yet.

The league itself is still planning to play a 56-game schedule in the condensed timeframe but there are obviously a ton of things that could change.
 

JMCx4

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It’ll be interesting to see what others do. Kinda surprised at some of the teams that haven’t done this yet. ...
Quite a few SPHL teams had mighty thin front office & hockey ops staffs already. And just because they haven't announced staffing cuts, it doesn't mean that furloughs haven't happened or that staff members aren't working reduced hours. Seems to me that Mr. Jeffries had more motivation in announcing his decision that just grieving the loss of headcount.
 
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CHRDANHUTCH

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Quite a few SPHL teams had mighty thin front office & hockey ops staffs already. And just because they haven't announced staffing cuts, it doesn't mean that furloughs haven't happened or that staff members aren't working reduced hours. Seems to me that Mr. Jeffries had more motivation in announcing his decision that just grieving the loss of headcount.
most teams have since the Pandemic, we just haven't heard about it, independent of what league it is.... when this broke though, they said the Havoc were not ceasing operations...
 

JMCx4

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If the SPHL fails (I'm assuming the FPHL goes under too if this happens), does this pretty well scare off anyone from trying this level again and permanently solidify the ECHL as the floor for minor professional hockey?
The two leagues have significantly different business models & budget structures. I would not assume that whither goeth the SPHL, there goeth the Fed.
 
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mk80

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I think the unfortunate reality is leagues at all levels below the AHL are going to lose teams directly or indirectly from this pandemic.
 

JMCx4

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Just curious. How much earn this people? Do they live from month to month? Or they can make a good financial pillow from their wages?
Of those laid off by the Havoc, the team president is probably in the best financial position of the lot (presuming his savings didn't get decimated by the pandemic market plunge). Below that, their Digital Media & Ticket Sales lead personnel were full-time positions but probably not paying extravagant salaries. Any ticket sales people below them could have been seasonal workers or earning commissions above a minimal annual salary. So unless those 2nd & 3rd tier employees were laid off under informal promises of getting their jobs back in a month or two (unlikely IMO), they'd probably be seeking governmental unemployment assistance and/or other full-time jobs.
 

CrazyEddie20

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I can tell you from experience that the base salary for a ticket or corporate sales person was around $18K in the late 2000s, and probably hasn't risen over $25K since then. A sales person who is really crushing it in the SPHL is, tops, making $40K.

Do they live month-to-month? More like week-to-week. Even in parts of the country where the cost of living is lower, like say, Alabama, a $25K/year salary, according to SmartAsset.com's Paycheck Calculator, gives them a bi-weekly take-home of $847, and that's with minimal withholding.

Balch doesn't make more than $60K, tops, if I had to guess. Jeffries nickel-and-dimes the operation because it's his only business, so his family depends on him siphoning out as much profit as possible each year.

If they try and play 56 games in a span of 120 days, the workman's compensation insurance premiums will be untenable for a lot of teams. More games in less time means more injuries, and insurance companies know that.

The FPHL will never fold as long as Soskin has all that gun shop money rolling in and he needs to lower his AGI come April 15.
 

SemireliableSource

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Quite a few SPHL teams had mighty thin front office & hockey ops staffs already. And just because they haven't announced staffing cuts, it doesn't mean that furloughs haven't happened or that staff members aren't working reduced hours. Seems to me that Mr. Jeffries had more motivation in announcing his decision that just grieving the loss of headcount.

I was mainly saying it because of who I know that hasn’t cut staff and comparing to their history.

———

I’ll pull from my personal experience: when I asked my buddy in the Havoc organization a few years ago, he told me the person who had been let go had been making a base of $21k plus commission. But this person didn’t make a ton of sales so his commission wasn’t super high. I didn’t even get a chance to negotiate a higher base, despite my buddy wanting me to be hired, because the guy who was fired burned bridges so badly with Jeffries that he just moved forward with my buddy and other splitting the role.

That’s less than what I made when I worked in the league but not that much lower. I’ll leave it at that.

Later on, I had to turn down a job in Evansville because they were only able to offer $30k. Single me probably would have taken it but I couldn’t justify moving my then fiancée now wife for only $30k.
 
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CrazyEddie20

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I was mainly saying it because of who I know that hasn’t cut staff and comparing to their history.

———

I’ll pull from my personal experience: when I asked my buddy in the Havoc organization a few years ago, he told me the person who had been let go had been making a base of $21k plus commission. But this person didn’t make a ton of sales so his commission wasn’t super high. I didn’t even get a chance to negotiate a higher base, despite my buddy wanting me to be hired, because the guy who was fired burned bridges so badly with Jeffries that he just moved forward with my buddy and other splitting the role.

That’s less than what I made when I worked in the league but not that much lower. I’ll leave it at that.

Later on, I had to turn down a job in Evansville because they were only able to offer $30k. Single me probably would have taken it but I couldn’t justify moving my then fiancée now wife for only $30k.

If you aren't selling tickets or sponsorships, you have no value to Keith, no matter what else you can do or talents you may have. Revenue is the only thing that matters to him. Except for the players [MOD]
 
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210

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If you aren't selling tickets or sponsorships, you have no value to Keith, no matter what else you can do or talents you may have. Revenue is the only thing that matters to him. Except for the players - he wants to sniff all the SPHL jocks he can.

If you're a salesperson that isn't selling the product you're worthless to any business.
 

CrazyEddie20

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If you're a salesperson that isn't selling the product you're worthless to any business.

Did I say "salesperson?" No, I didn't. You may not believe it, but "salespeople" aren't the only front office employees.

Keith has no use for employees who aren't salespeople. He's the typical small-minded small-business owner with the "production people cost me money, sales people make me money" mindset.
 
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210

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Did I say "salesperson?" No, I didn't. You may not believe it, but "salespeople" aren't the only front office employees.

Keith has no use for employees who aren't salespeople. He's the typical small-minded small-business owner with the "production people cost me money, sales people make me money" mindset.

You quoted a post that talked about salespeople. And in every business large and small, "production people" cost you money.
 

CrazyEddie20

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You quoted a post that talked about salespeople. And in every business large and small, "production people" cost you money.

If you can't think in the abstract and understand how people who don't directly contribute to revenue make the business money, you're not that good a businessperson to begin with.
 
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CrazyEddie20

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And let me expound on this a bit further. I don't know the particulars of the position that Geoff interviewed for with Huntsville, but if memory serves, he did a lot of digital and social media stuff with Pensacola - work that doesn't directly bring in revenue, and takes time away from his sales responsibilities, if he had any. (Geoff, feel free to chime in if I'm right or wrong.) As his post about Huntsville alludes, Keith Jeffries doesn't value that kind of work. Yes, a lot of positions that do social media/website/broadcasting/pr/community relations in the minor leagues have a sales component to them. You'll notice that the organizations that do those things better than the others almost invariably have people in those positions that are 100 percent focused on that aspect of the business. That's because they 1) hire talented people and 2) let them use their talents in the way that best helps the organization, rather than telling them "We want you to do social media as well as an NHL team does it, but we also want you to sell season and group tickets with 85 percent of your work week."

And spare me the "The SPHL is a cost-containment league." Translated, that's saying "We know we're a garbage league and so we don't have to have high standards."
 

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