Have the Flyers Turned the Page on Drafting and Developing Homegrown Defensemen?

[LegionOfDoom91]

Do we know anything about Vasiliev and Larsson? How are they projecting?

We lost Larsson's rights, I don't think he has much of a future in pro hockey.

Vasiliev is entering his second year in the KHL, he left his team last year for a new team this offseason (same team as Gus). He only signed a 1 year deal so I'm thinking that was strategically done with the thought of possibly signing with the Flyers the following year when some spots open up in LHV.

 

[Curufinwe]

In addition both Streit and Timonen are older Dmen. so there is a need in near future for a young PMD.

You mean a young PMD like Shayne Gostisbehere?

Yeah, I'd like to see this supposed report. Everything we've seen has indicated his development is coming along fine.

I'm going to guess this "report" had a weird writing style where every sentence begins on a new line.

 

[Coffe]

Do we know anything about Vasiliev and Larsson? How are they projecting?

We didn't sign Larsson so he's not our property anymore I think, Vasiliev played 36 games last year in the KHL and have traded up to Avangard Omsk (looking at previous records at least) for this season. Perhaps he will play this season in the KHL and then come over and play next season.

How he's faired I do not know but the fact that he didn't play in the MHL last season but rather sticked with the big club all season long should be a good sign.

 

[flyershockey]

Maybe, depends if he develops.
In fact read a report that he did not look that good last year.
Like most prospects he is a work in progress at this point.
I would rather be wrong about Morin, and have him develop into a great Dman.

Just felt they should have gone with a Dman with more offensive skills, like Morrissey or Pulock at #11 OV.
Especially since the defense has a hard time moving the puck out of defensive zone.
In addition both Streit and Timonen are older Dmen. so there is a need in near future for a young PMD.
If he only becomes Luke Schenn then I feel they could have done better at #11.

You couldn't be more wrong about Morin. His offense progressed about as well as should have been expected considering he wasn't getting much powerplay time. His offense could explode next year, as he'll be the number one in all situations for Rimouski. He's also a near lock for the WJC team.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Yeah, I'd like to see this supposed report. Everything we've seen has indicated his development is coming along fine.

He was used on Rimouski's 2nd PP unit which wasn't as good. They stacked up their 1st unit with all their top talent. Morin is better than Kostalek who ran the point for the 1st unit but my guess is since Morin played on the top PK unit & played a lot at ES drawing defensive assignments they wanted to spread his minutes out.

http://www.extraskater.com/chl/players?sort=points_ev_per60&team=rim

 

[Kuato]

They're certainly trending towards getting more serious about drafting and developing some homegrown defensemen.

They're drafting them for sure. It remains to be seen if they are developing them.

 

[Ryker]

Vasiliev is entering his second year in the KHL, he left his team last year for a new team this offseason (same team as Gus). He only signed a 1 year deal so I'm thinking that was strategically done with the thought of possibly signing with the Flyers the following year when some spots open up in LHV.

We didn't sign Larsson so he's not our property anymore I think, Vasiliev played 36 games last year in the KHL and have traded up to Avangard Omsk (looking at previous records at least) for this season. Perhaps he will play this season in the KHL and then come over and play next season.

How he's faired I do not know but the fact that he didn't play in the MHL last season but rather sticked with the big club all season long should be a good sign.

Spartak actually withdrew from the KHL, but it was good he found a new club. Avangard had a bad season last year, but they're a good team. So I'm just hoping he gets enough ice time.

 

[1865]

So are we thinking Vasiliev has an NHL future? That'd be a bonus.

 

[dats81]

So are we thinking Vasiliev has an NHL future? That'd be a bonus.

He could very well be a bottom pairing shutdown D but players of that brand are paid less than any other kind of defensemen.

I just don't see how they could bait him to come NA to play such a role and even rotate between Philly and Allentown... and stick in that place

 

[JustJim]

Our draft picks for the past 13 years:

2001
1 27 Jeff Woywitka D
3 95 Patrick Sharp C
5 146 Jussi Timonen D
5 150 Bernd Bruckler G
5 158 Roman Malek G
6 172 Dennis Seidenberg D
6 177 Andrei Razin C
7 208 Thierry Douville D
7 225 David Printz D
2002
1 4 Joni Pitkanen D
4 105 Rosario Ruggeri D
4 126 Konstantin Baranov RW
5 161 Dov Grumet-Morris G
6 192 Nikita Korovkin D
6 193 Joey Mormina D
7 201 Mathieu Brunelle LW
2003
1 11 Jeff Carter C
1 24 Mike Richards C/LW
3 69 Colin Fraser C
3 81 Stefan Ruzicka RW
3 85 Alexandre Picard D
3 87 Ryan Potulny C
3 95 Rick Kozak RW
4 108 Kevin Romy C/LW
5 140 David Tremblay G
6 191 Rejean Beauchemin G
6 193 Ville Hostikka G
2004
3 92 Rob Bellamy RW
4 101 Micheal R.J. Anderson D
4 124 David Laliberte RW
5 144 Chris Zarb D
5 149 Gino Pisellini RW
6 170 Ladisalv Scurko C
6 171 Fredreik Cabana C/LW
8 232 Martin Houle G
8 253 Travis Gawryletz D
9 286 Triston Grant LW
9 291 John Carter C
2005
1 29 Steve Downie RW
3 91 Oskars Bartulis D
4 119 Jeremy Duchesne G
5 152 Josh Beaulieu C
6 174 John Flatters D
7 215 Matthew Clackson LW
2006
1 22 Claude Giroux RW
2 39 Andreas Nodl RW
2 42 Michael Ratchuk D
2 55 Denis Bodrov D
3 79 Jonathan Matsumoto C
4 101 Joonas Lehtivuori D
4 109 Jakub Kovar G
5 145 Jonathan Rheault RW
6 175 Michael Dupont G
7 205 Andrei Popov RW
2007
1 2 James van Riemsdyk LW
2 41 Kevin Marshall D
3 66 Garrett Klotz LW
5 122 Mario Kempe RW
6 152 Jonathon Kalinski LW
6 161 Patrick Maroon LW
7 182 Brad Phillips G
2008
1 19 Luca Sbisa D
3 67 Marc-Andre Bourdon D
3 84 Jacob Deserres G
6 178 Zac Rinaldo C
7 196 Joacim Eriksson G
2009
3 81 Adam Morrison G
3 87 Simon Bertilsson D
5 142 Nicola Riopel G
6 153 Dave Labrecque C
6 172 Eric Wellwood LW
7 196 Oliver Lauridsen D
2010
3 89 Micheal Chaput C
4 119 Tye McGinn LW
5 149 Michael Parks RW
6 179 Nicholas Luukko D
7 206 Ricard Blidstrand D
7 209 Brendan Ranford LW
2011
1 8 Sean Couturier C
3 68 Nick Cousins C
4 116 Colin Sullentrop D
4 118 Marcel Noebels LW
6 176 Petr Placek RW
7 206 Derek Mathers RW
2012
1 20 Scott Laughton C
2 45 Anthony Stolarz G
3 78 Shayne Gostibehere D
4 111 Fredric Larsson D
4 117 Taylor Leier LW
5 141 Reece Willcox D
7 201 Valeri Vasiliev D


That's 30 dmen drafted in 13 years with only 3 of them as actual NHL dmen and NONE of them playing for us. That's also 16 goalies drafted and none of them in the NHL. Throwing **** at the wall and seeing what sticks hasn't worked very well for us and until they actually get some scouts who can accurately evaluate dmen and goalies we will continue to flounder at developing them. It's not like we haven't tried to draft and develop these 2 areas, we just continue to fail at it.

Every time I see that wasted pick Nicholas Luuko I get pissed off at Holmgren all over again.

 

[Flyotes]

Best case scenarios IMO:

Vasiliev, No.4 D man, shut down. (Grossmann)

Larsson, No. 5-6 D man, shut down.

Those aren't best case scenarios.

 

[Embiid]

Every time I see that wasted pick Nicholas Luuko I get pissed off at Holmgren all over again.

I remember when they made that pity pick and tried to justify it as not being an example of nepotism. It was pretty funny.

The most egregious act of nepotism was Clarke with Peter White...it was embarrassing. Guy totally sucked and should never have gotten a single shift...

 

[Cyborg LeClair]

Morin-Gostisbehere
Sanheim-Hagg
MacDonald-L.Schenn

I like the look of that in 4 years

 

[JustJim]

Morin-Gostisbehere
Sanheim-Hagg
MacDonald-L.Schenn

I like the look of that in 4 years

No Coburn? Or Hal Gil? You mean there may be some hope in the future for this horrible defense?

 

[Jtown]

Morin-Gostisbehere
Sanheim-Hagg
MacDonald-L.Schenn

I like the look of that in 4 years

I don't see the point in paying the 3rd pairing close to 9 million even if the other 2 pairings are cheap. Would much rather go with cheaper alternatives like Alt, and the dude from cornell.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

No Coburn? Or Hal Gil? You mean there may be some hope in the future for this horrible defense?

Wow you just lumped Coburn & Gill together.

 

[Random Forest]

Every time I see that wasted pick Nicholas Luuko I get pissed off at Holmgren all over again.

I hated the Luukko pick, but it was no worse than Amorosa or Placek. Was he on our radar because of his connection to the team? Probably. But he was just as distinguished a player as those other guys as well, so if you're going to be mad at one pick, you should be mad at all similar picks.

Just reinforces my desire to stay far away from drafting prep school players. Those are just total wastes unless they are clearly on another level from their peers (eg, Ryan Donato).

 

[flyershockey]

I hated the Luukko pick, but it was no worse than Amorosa or Placek. Was he on our radar because of his connection to the team? Probably. But he was just as distinguished a player as those other guys as well, so if you're going to be mad at one pick, you should be mad at all similar picks.

Just reinforces my desire to stay far away from drafting prep school players. Those are just total wastes unless they are clearly on another level from their peers (eg, Ryan Donato).

Picking guys out of prep school programs is a total waste. Those leagues are just so up and down with the talent. Even kids out of the EJHL and EHL (old AJHL) are usually playing against better talent overall.

Just as a side note: Luukko played in the USHL for Dubuque in 2010-2011. That team was absolutely stacked with future NHL talent by USHL standards.

 

[Random Forest]

Picking guys out of prep school programs is a total waste. Those leagues are just so up and down with the talent. Even kids out of the EJHL and EHL (old AJHL) are usually playing against better talent overall.

Trust me, I know. I played three years at prep school in pursuit of the dream (cawlidge hawkey). Dominating players like me should not make you an NHL prospect.

To clarify, there are a couple legit prospects each year out of prep school, but it is so damn difficult to spot them given the range of talent. For example, I played Ghost in his first draft year, and he was no more a standout than any of the other prep school stars. It's just not worth picking them until you've seen them at the college or USHL levels.

EDIT: Though I would disagree with your second statement. I would change "better talent" to "more consistent levels of talent". The top half of prep school could compete with EJHL teams.

 

[Cyborg LeClair]

I don't see the point in paying the 3rd pairing close to 9 million even if the other 2 pairings are cheap. Would much rather go with cheaper alternatives like Alt, and the dude from cornell.

You need veterans somewhere and MacDonald is locked up for a while and L. Schenn would be a part of making the team feel like a family. Plus, I still think Luke can play well in the future, he's still young yet, it feels like Coburn only just started figuring it out a couple years ago. We need to have some players on the backend who've been here. and it's a better third pair option than a shaky AHL player in clutch time.