Panopticon
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Ola said:
Ah, I misunderstood you. I thought you meant that he's the best European goalie. I haven't really followed the game here so I can't really argue what you said.
Have the 04´ NYR prospect depth ever been matched?
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Ah, I misunderstood you. I thought you meant that he's the best European goalie. I haven't really followed the game here so I can't really argue what you said.
Hunter Gathers
The Crown
BMWM3owner said:
That was done well before the trade deadline and the draft.
I'd rank the Rangers top 15 in prospects. Maybe top 10 if I'm feeling biased.
But they are a LOT better off than you come to give them credit for...
BMWM3owner said:
Tyutin, Balej, Murray, Kondratiev, Pock, Wiseman, Moore and Lampman have already played in the NHL but are still considered prospects according to HF. That is 8/30=0.26. If you say that the NYR are lucky if 10% makes it you are on thin ice. 26% Of that list has already "made it" and will all start next year in the NHL, with Lampman as questionable....
The Rangers moved players like Leetch, Kovalev, Nedved, Simon, Barnaby, De Vries, Malahkov and Rucinsky for picks and prospects who make up this list. They have had a bunch of early picks for several years now.
On HF´s ranking its a fact that they only rank early draftpicks who get allot of attention. Either their staff don´t watch many hockey games or the staff who does don´t have allot of impact. When ranked NYR 29th overall they didn´t mention top prospect like Lundqvist and Prucha.(Allot of players have been added to their list of assets after though, for some reason. At the top of the list it says UPDATED 9 FEBUARY but now there are players listed as rangers assets that weren´t even their property 9th feb....). As for players they have left out before who are simular to Lundqvist and Prucha are former ranger property Mike York, Zidlicky, Kim Johnsson among many others. Tyutin was a great prospect from the day he was drafted. Ranger brass hyped him from the get go. He was impressive in CHL, Guelph´s coach said he was one of the best players he had ever seen in OHL. Still he was left out of HF´s top 50 untill last year. That makes me wonder how many hockey games thoose who make this lists watches. Is it to much to ask that they atleast keep track of players in the CHL and watches the WC ect. not just old draft lists and hype on the internet....
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Ola said:
I don't know a lot about the prospects in the Rangers system besides the top end. Draft order doesn't really say to me 'great prospect'. I really don't care where the player was drafted-you are trying to convince me that the Rangers have the greatest prospect depth ever but you are listing where they were drafted. Not convinced.
I look down the Caps, Pens, Hawks even the Kings-much more high-end talent.
1. Denis Grebeshkov-future top two d-man.
2. Dustin Brown, RW-Deadmarsh compared him to ..... well ..... Deadmarsh
3. Petr Kanko, RW-feisty, speedy skilled forward. Compared to a Fleury or a Tikkanen.
4. Jeff Tambellini, LW-a natural goal scorer with tremedous speed.
5. Brian Boyle, C-a monster with great hands and a great foot speed for his size.
6. Konstantin Pushkarev, RW-a pure sniper. Detroit tried to trade up and nab him.
7. Richard Petiot, D-big, tough as nails d-man.
8. Jens Karlsson, LW-big, physical winger with a nasty streak.
9. Brady Murray, C-awesome rookie year playing on the top line at North Dakota
10. Greg Hogeboom, RW-great poise. No glaring weaknesses. Plays a real solid all around game.
11. Noah Clarke, LW-real good speed. Played a couple games with the Kings last year.
12. Connor James, LW-one of the fastest skaters in College. Showed great character coming back early from a broken ankle(I think) to help Denver U win the NCAA championships.
13. Tomas Zizka, D-will play in the NHL. Looked like he belonged with the 15 games he played last year.
14. Matt Zaba, G-had a great freshman year at Colorado College
15. Lauri Tukonen-supposed steal of the first round in the '04 draft.
Barry Brust, Ryan Munce, Marty Geurin, George Parros, you could go on and on. And I'm not even including Cammalleri, Gleason and Barney.
I really think the truth is that there are so many good, young players around the world that you could do this for every team.
Hunter Gathers
The Crown
Reveille said:
You either overrate the ranger prospects or you don't have enough knowledge of the Kings prospects.........
Considering that the Rangers just started rebuilding, they have compiled a pretty good list of prospects. Another two years, this team will be stacked.
Ola said:
If you're not up to speed with the Caps' system:
Ovechkin- franchise player
Semin- all-star level skill, a potential star
Ouellet- *arguably* the 3rd ranked goalie behind Lehtonen/MA Fleury
Aulin- 1st line center upside, likely 2nd line center. Great skill, toughness.
Eminger- 1st pairing potential. Excellent skating and underrated hitter
Morrisonn- 1st pairing potential. Large, mobile, and defensively sound.
Fehr- 1st line upside, top 6 lock. One of youngest to score 50 g in WHL, a points leader. Scouts have compared to Bertuzzi/Andreychuck, etc. Great drive and presence around the net.
Fleischmann- 1st line upside, likely 2nd line LW. Centerpiece of Lang deal. Scored at faster rate than Fehr for the WHL.
Klepis- 2nd line center. Pure playmaker. Appeared briefly for Czech National team.
Gordon- 3rd line grinder. An 02 1st round pick. Very reliable, responsible, and diligent. Made Caps out of camp last year. Similar player to Maltby.
Laich- 3rd line grinder C. Had a great WJC for Canada. Has grit and skill to graduate.
Green- 2nd pairing upside. A favorite of scouts. A ferocious hitter, mobile, and defensively sound. 04 1st round pick.
Shultz- 2nd pairing upside. As mobile as any big man in the draft. Skilled, big defenseman with boom or bust potential. 04 first round pick.
Bourque- wildcard. Has everything it takes to have been a 1st round pick but size. Has very good skill, speed, work ethic, edge and maturity. Blew the Caps scouts away. They compare him to a Dale Hunter. Time will tell. Don't sleep on this one.
Yunkov- skilled and savvy Russian playmaking center. 04 2nd round pick.
Lepisto- smallish, but skilled and mobile defenseman from Finnish hockey system. voted best D-man at a recent WJC. A late bloomer.
Hedman- heady, skilled, smallish d-man. One of the steals of 04 IMO. Was expected to be a late first/early 2nd pick. Fell to 5th round. For good reason, but at worst Hedman is a project with very good upside.
I left Yonkman, Stana, Daigenault, Werner, Cutta, and Johansson out. Quality prospects.
*Brian Sutherby may have graduated, but he's another player who's yet to have been given healthy ice-time to blossom. The organization loves this guy. At one point McPhee compared him to a bigger Mike Peca. A future team captain. Young Stars MVP a couple years ago.
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V for Voodoo
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ktownhockey
Registered User
Pens4ever said:
Dan Carcillo plays for the Sarnia Sting in the OHL. and he's agressive but not like domi a fair comparison would be a Sean Avery if his progress continues or a Matthew Barnaby.
good list tho.. the pens are stacked with young talent.
EroCaps said:
You also only listed 17 prospects, which is why you left those guys out.
The guy is saying that Rangers have the best prospects 10-30. You guys are all listing the top 10 prospects in your teams organization and saying no way the rangers are the best look at this. Not talking about the top 10 prospects you have here, talking about depth in terms of prospects.
Reveille said:
Actually I'm not.
If china doll Jared Aulin-who has done absolutley nothing this year-because he's been injured-is Washington's #4 rated prospect and Anshakov is Pittsburgh's #3 rated prospect than they are three possiblities.
#1-Washington and Pittsburgh have vastly overrated these two prospects.
#2-The Kings have vastly underrated these two prospects.
#3-The Kings organization has a number of kick ass prospects which made these two expendable.
I'll take #3-thank you very much.
nyr7andcounting said:
But look at his prospects that he has listed-absolutely nobody out of the Rangers organization and die-hard fans are going to know who some of these kids are.
He has a bunch of kids listed and where they were picked. Big deal. These are just names to me. Nothing more.
Just because he's listed more names than anybody else doesn't mean they have 'the greatest prospect depth' ever.
nyr7andcounting said:
IMO, the Caps/Hawks 10-30 has more talent than New York's. Quantity doesn't equal "depth". It shouldn't surprise anyone. The Rangers have made a name for themselves trading prospects and signing UFAs. I mean that with no disrespect. I really liked what I saw from Pock (underrated), Balej (underrated) and Tyutin (overrated) last year. Adding Korpikoski and Montoya to Jessiman and Lundmark will only help. The league would benefit fromthe Rangers establishing themselves with these guys and succeeding, but Washington's system was ranked #2 before Aulin, Klepis, Morrisonn, Ovechkin, Fleischmann, Green, Shultz, etc.
I might guess-
1. Washington 2. Chicago 3. Montreal 4. Pittsburgh 5. LA 6. New York
As a Ranger fan, I think you're ranking us to high. I think we deserve to be in the mid-to-late teens.EroCaps said:
dashripper said:
I don't know about "ever", but the fact that he has listed more names than anybody else in this thread does mean they have more depth, because that's what depth is. It's how many.
Anyway, I'm not commenting on the Rangers depth as much as I am on the attempts of some people to challenge his assumption that the Rangers have the best depth. He is saying the Rangers are better than other teams 10-30 on the prospect depth chart. So if you want to compare your team with the Rangers than give your teams 10-30 on the prospect list and see how it goes. Don't say Fleury is a top goalie prospect and then list the top prospects your team has... that means nothing as far as depth.
Teemu
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I feel obliged to do the hawks now.
1. Cam Barker, D (You know the story)
2. Anton Babchuk, D (One of the top youngsters in the AHL last year)
3. Brent Seabrook, D (Built like a machine, Can play both ends well)
4. Pavel Vorobiev, LW (Russian sniper should be fully healed from surgery now)
5. James Wisniewski, D (One of the top US prospects. Only lacks size)
6. Corey Crawford, G (One of the best goalies in the Q)
7. Dave Bolland, C/RW (Expected to go first round, fell ti early second)
8. Mikhail Yakubov, C (Earned a roster spot at the end of last year)
9. Igor Radulov, RW (Value is falling, but still has great potential to rise again)
10. Ryan Garlock, LW (Another 2004 draft steal)
11. Michal Barinka, D (Steady stay-at-home that should be up this year or next)
12. Jari Viuhkola, C (One of the top players in the SM-Liiga, but may or may not cross the pond)
13. Jakub Sindel, C (Yet another 2004 draft steal)
14. Adam Berti, LW (And hey look, another!)
15. Colin Fraser, C (One of the top players at the prospects camp this year, looks to be the next Ian Laperriere)
16. Matt Ellison, RW (One of the top forwards in Norfolk lst year)
17. Mike Brodeur, G (Next to Crawford, our best bet for a #1 goaltender. Had a great year in the dub)
18. Bryan Bickell, LW (Inconsistancy sccares me, but very high reward)
19. Mitch Maunu, D (And, yes, ANOTHER steal)
20. Duncan Keith, D (Skates like the wind)
21. Bubba Byfuglien, LW/D (Keeps losing weight, looks like NHL talent)
22. Nick Kuiper, D (Signed out of college)
23. Lasse Kukkonen, D (Will probably play on the Hawks next year if we dont sign anyone)
24. Scott McColloch,
ill finish it later...
1. Cam Barker, D (You know the story)
2. Anton Babchuk, D (One of the top youngsters in the AHL last year)
3. Brent Seabrook, D (Built like a machine, Can play both ends well)
4. Pavel Vorobiev, LW (Russian sniper should be fully healed from surgery now)
5. James Wisniewski, D (One of the top US prospects. Only lacks size)
6. Corey Crawford, G (One of the best goalies in the Q)
7. Dave Bolland, C/RW (Expected to go first round, fell ti early second)
8. Mikhail Yakubov, C (Earned a roster spot at the end of last year)
9. Igor Radulov, RW (Value is falling, but still has great potential to rise again)
10. Ryan Garlock, LW (Another 2004 draft steal)
11. Michal Barinka, D (Steady stay-at-home that should be up this year or next)
12. Jari Viuhkola, C (One of the top players in the SM-Liiga, but may or may not cross the pond)
13. Jakub Sindel, C (Yet another 2004 draft steal)
14. Adam Berti, LW (And hey look, another!)
15. Colin Fraser, C (One of the top players at the prospects camp this year, looks to be the next Ian Laperriere)
16. Matt Ellison, RW (One of the top forwards in Norfolk lst year)
17. Mike Brodeur, G (Next to Crawford, our best bet for a #1 goaltender. Had a great year in the dub)
18. Bryan Bickell, LW (Inconsistancy sccares me, but very high reward)
19. Mitch Maunu, D (And, yes, ANOTHER steal)
20. Duncan Keith, D (Skates like the wind)
21. Bubba Byfuglien, LW/D (Keeps losing weight, looks like NHL talent)
22. Nick Kuiper, D (Signed out of college)
23. Lasse Kukkonen, D (Will probably play on the Hawks next year if we dont sign anyone)
24. Scott McColloch,
ill finish it later...
Chimaera
same ol' Caps
I think the Caps system is being overranked... in all honesty.
And I'm a Caps fan.
I wouldn't have dreamed of putting the collection of players they put up at #2 there this past ranking time, especially minus Alexander Semin.
Semin's the wildcard of the prospect system (or was, if you consider he's graduated) in the fact that he could be an amazing player, or he could just be an underachiever.
Either way... the Caps system is still filled with too many potential 3rd and 4th liners to really rave about much of anything.
Give credit where it is due, in the form of their Goaltending, quality puckmoving defensemen (now), Ovechkin and Fehr. Beyond that, I could really care less, because it is a crap shoot.
They have some good tools, but most have knocks on them. Lepisto, like someone pointed out could be an ok defenseman in this league, but his size might limit him from becoming that player. Having met the guy, I think he's got enough character to carry himself into that role, but we'll see. Similarly, other players will have to carve our their 'niche' so to speak on the Caps roster with their player. The sheer number of prospects will be a hinderance, and not a help, as there will eventually be less spots (especially if you add in some choice veterans like the Caps will add).
Drum up the Rangers all you want in my opinion. They've been doing that about their team for years. They do have a strong system that added a lot of prospects to the mix, but at the same point many of those players (Like some Caps prospects) still need a season or two more of either AHL/Juniors to shake out just what type of upside they have.
Who knows if some of those 'potentially' good prospects (which I do label quite a few of both teams players) will turn into a Fehr, who seems to have blossomed in another year of juniors, or a Sutherby, who has taken a step back from a year ago after injuries?
Though, if you want to argue, I think Ovechkin puts the Caps head and shoulders above the Rangers prospect pool. There is no one who comes close to him as far as talent, and like it or not, that's fact... due to his being chosen number 1. Add him to Oulette, Fehr, Morrisonn and Eminger, and that group of 5 (not even counting Semin) is pretty talented. If Ovechkin alone reaches most of his expectations, I'll be happy.
On a side note, I do feel that Montreal deserves a legitimate claim to the top mark (or at least did prior to calling up Ryder and Komisarek) They definitely haven't taken steps back.. others have just taken steps forward
And I'm a Caps fan.
I wouldn't have dreamed of putting the collection of players they put up at #2 there this past ranking time, especially minus Alexander Semin.
Semin's the wildcard of the prospect system (or was, if you consider he's graduated) in the fact that he could be an amazing player, or he could just be an underachiever.
Either way... the Caps system is still filled with too many potential 3rd and 4th liners to really rave about much of anything.
Give credit where it is due, in the form of their Goaltending, quality puckmoving defensemen (now), Ovechkin and Fehr. Beyond that, I could really care less, because it is a crap shoot.
They have some good tools, but most have knocks on them. Lepisto, like someone pointed out could be an ok defenseman in this league, but his size might limit him from becoming that player. Having met the guy, I think he's got enough character to carry himself into that role, but we'll see. Similarly, other players will have to carve our their 'niche' so to speak on the Caps roster with their player. The sheer number of prospects will be a hinderance, and not a help, as there will eventually be less spots (especially if you add in some choice veterans like the Caps will add).
Drum up the Rangers all you want in my opinion. They've been doing that about their team for years. They do have a strong system that added a lot of prospects to the mix, but at the same point many of those players (Like some Caps prospects) still need a season or two more of either AHL/Juniors to shake out just what type of upside they have.
Who knows if some of those 'potentially' good prospects (which I do label quite a few of both teams players) will turn into a Fehr, who seems to have blossomed in another year of juniors, or a Sutherby, who has taken a step back from a year ago after injuries?
Though, if you want to argue, I think Ovechkin puts the Caps head and shoulders above the Rangers prospect pool. There is no one who comes close to him as far as talent, and like it or not, that's fact... due to his being chosen number 1. Add him to Oulette, Fehr, Morrisonn and Eminger, and that group of 5 (not even counting Semin) is pretty talented. If Ovechkin alone reaches most of his expectations, I'll be happy.
On a side note, I do feel that Montreal deserves a legitimate claim to the top mark (or at least did prior to calling up Ryder and Komisarek) They definitely haven't taken steps back.. others have just taken steps forward
infinitesadd
Registered User
when i read this thread all i can think is..
"oh...oh yeah? well my dad could beat up your dad!"
as it was stated on page 1, the rangers have a good start, but they are lacking a franchise caliber prospect (ala Ovechkin, Malkin, MAF, etc.) that could change though, just wait and see before going nuts.
"oh...oh yeah? well my dad could beat up your dad!"
as it was stated on page 1, the rangers have a good start, but they are lacking a franchise caliber prospect (ala Ovechkin, Malkin, MAF, etc.) that could change though, just wait and see before going nuts.
Voodoo said:
it was rumored by a couple of pre-draft sources that the sens like graham and were rumored to be looking at him as a possible 1st round pick but who knows how much they liked him really...it might have simply been a case of 'if all of these players are off the board, we'll take him'
Bure9 said:
that is exactly how ranger fans should be looking at it...forget being the best and realize that a rebuild isn't gonna happen over night and then consider that the rangers have gone from basically nothing to a pretty decent system...progress headed in the right direction for a change
Kritty said:
Exactly Kritty. Here we go again. Funny how any post list comes up and we see lists of pretty much every NHL teams' prospect list.
Or any post for that matter. I looked at the post about the best NHL defences and I see people talking about teams that don't even come close to being near the top.
Kipper933
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