Has Bergevin made us a better team so far this summer? Part 3

Will Bergevin fill a need with a major acquisition before the start of the 2019-2020 season?


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Milhouse40

Registered User
Aug 19, 2010
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lol yeah...because Plekanec only turned into an anchor when he retired lol

Not like he stunk the joint out for 3yrs prior to that lol

I would say 2 years prior…..3 years prior he was putting numbers that Danault can't even put up yet.
But you've been on his back for longer than that.
 

417

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Feb 20, 2003
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If Shaw had the same value in real life as he all of a sudden has on these boards, we should have traded him 1 for 1 for Laine.
Its like the HF Habs section had an epiphany the second Andrew Shaw was traded, and realized how valuable he was to the team lol.

Amazing how that works.

We want to see our young players get a chance but keep the dead weight.

We want to build for the future but not acquire draft picks.

Moving Shaw was a no brainer, which is how Bergevin pulled it off
Fans: "I wish Bergevin got rid of all the dead weight (which Shaw was for 2.5yrs according to many here) and give a real chance to the youth"

MB trades Shaw

Fans: "what the hell is Bergevin doing??? He traded our best 50pt winger who can't possibly replaced even though I thought he was trash just a few minutes ago".

I seriously cannot take any of this Shaw support...it's shameful.
 
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417

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I would say 2 years prior…..3 years prior he was putting numbers that Danault can't even put up yet.
But you've been on his back for longer than that.
3yrs ago (2016-17) he had 28pts in 78 games lol

Danault nearly doubled that lol
 

Milhouse40

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Aug 19, 2010
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Its like the HF Habs section had an epiphany the second Andrew Shaw was traded, and realized how valuable he was to the team lol.

Amazing how that works.


Fans: "I wish Bergevin got rid of all the dead weight (which Shaw was for 2.5yrs according to many here) and give a real chance to the youth"

MB trades Shaw

Fans: "what the hell is Bergevin doing??? He traded our best 50pt winger who can't possibly replaced even though I thought he was trash just a few minutes ago".

I seriously cannot take any of this Shaw support...it's shameful.


Is it so hard to understand that most wanted Shaw gone but not for this crap of a return that makes no senses at this point?
I Don't like Drouin, doesn't mean i want him gone for a bag of pucks either. I want him gone, as long as we got a quality NHLer for him.

Same goes for Shaw.
 

417

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Is it so hard to understand that most wanted Shaw gone but not for this crap of a return that makes no senses at this point?
No, it doesn't make sense because what he was traded for, which 95% of this board thought was a gross overpayment...is pretty close to what the Habs acquired when they traded him back to Chicago.

So if you're arguing that a 2nd + 3rd is nothing...how can you simultaneously argue that 2nd + 2nd is an overpayment?

ESPECIALLY after YOU said you'd have given him away for free if you had your way.

Do you not see the inconsistency with that??

I Don't like Drouin, doesn't mean i want him gone for a bag of pucks either. I want him gone, as long as we got a quality NHLer for him.

Same goes for Shaw.
Shaw wasn't traded for a bag of pucks
 
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The Real Timo

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Jun 18, 2019
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Is it so hard to understand that most wanted Shaw gone but not for this crap of a return that makes no senses at this point?
I Don't like Drouin, doesn't mean i want him gone for a bag of pucks either. I want him gone, as long as we got a quality NHLer for him.

Same goes for Shaw.
Getting anything of quality for Droo-ehn will be tough. Maybe a fifth? I mean I know Bergevin values 5th round picks above everything else but not sure about everyone else, so there is a chance.
 

The Real Timo

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Jun 18, 2019
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Do you not see the inconsistency with that??
I see consistency in one thing - people truly hating and wanting Bergevin gone (I admit I am one of them). Hence, no matter what he does will be criticized at this point. It's like political leaders. People are just entrenched in their hatered for certain leaders be it to the left or to the right and every move they make at this point will never make people satisfied. Any action (good or bad) is just a fodder for more criticism, mostly not even on the topic.
 

Kriss E

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May 3, 2007
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You can say the same thing about Sergachev too.
Euh, no, you can't. Sergachev's issues have nothing to do with inconsistent efforts.

There's a difference between being critical and being derogatory.
Ya...so? You can be critical or even derogatory and still not want your GM to trade an asset for a return you deem inadequate.
Making up wild scenarios doesn't exactly make your point valid.
Sometimes you need to make drastic analogies so the person you speak to understands your point, especially one that has difficulty seeing the grey zone.

In other words...you just want to oppose whatever the GM does? Cause that's what this sentence looks like to me.

What?? ..You see...it's these types of responses you give that make quite a few posters think you like to play devil's advocate.
I've said this to you for years, somehow, you're still grasping to understand it. I want a clear direction. Simple, the majority of posters understand what I mean by that, not sure why you're struggling.

Again, you can cover your eyes and scream at the top of your lungs that you don't see the direction the GM is taking this team...and i'll just encourage you to look at the moves he's made since February 2018.

This has already been answered to you...for someone who tells others about covering their eyes and screaming, you sure are leading the way.
You kept saying how he's chosen a direction which is to ''get younger and faster'' diregarding the obvious fact this isn't a direction. You can get younger and faster yet still be at the bottom of the league or middle of the pack. That's like saying we want to get bigger. Okay, great, so...are we looking to compete in 3 years? 5 years? now? What is the window? Rebuild or POs?..This is what people mean when discussing a ''direction''..Not how old/fast players are.
I mean, there is no reason for you not to know this. Also, this has been explained to you on more than one occasion already. Some of your answers are very odd..
 
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Kriss E

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May 3, 2007
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Its like the HF Habs section had an epiphany the second Andrew Shaw was traded, and realized how valuable he was to the team lol.

Amazing how that works.
No actually...it's not like that.

What is like is some posters taking the position of others a tad too extreme and missing simple points being presented.
 

Milhouse40

Registered User
Aug 19, 2010
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No, it doesn't make sense because what he was traded for, which 95% of this board thought was a gross overpayment...is pretty close to what the Habs acquired when they traded him back to Chicago.

So if you're arguing that a 2nd + 3rd is nothing...how can you simultaneously argue that 2nd + 2nd is an overpayment?

ESPECIALLY after YOU said you'd have given him away for free if you had your way.

Do you not see the inconsistency with that??


Shaw wasn't traded for a bag of pucks

You know there's a world of difference between trading pick #39 and pick #45 in the same day of the draft then trading for pick #i don't know and pick #i don't know in a year and 2 years away from the day of the trade. On top of that, when we traded for Shaw he never put more than 34 points and now he just came out of a 47 points season. And in the end, it's a lower return than what we've paid no matter what the picks are.

And for the last couple of months Shaw was on my list of trade bait, just like Lehkonen, Drouin and Byron…...but to fix one of our holes, not future picks. I always said that when you trade an NHLer with term, you must get another NHLer. Said it when he traded Eller and i'm still saying it today.

And i would be as pissed about Bergevin trading any of those players for picks too. All assets should have been use to get what this teams needed, form Shaw, Cap Space and picks

But as the day Bergevin traded for Shaw and traded away Shaw….in both case,the return was not what the teams needed.
Back then we needed size, we needed centers…..and he got Shaw.
Now we needed size and needed a LHD.....and he got picks.

Those picks might help the team by 2024.....but just like Eller's return, it might take even longer than that.
So how it hell that trade helps the team going into next year? Plain and simple, it doesn't help at all.
 
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417

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Feb 20, 2003
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I see consistency in one thing - people truly hating and wanting Bergevin gone (I admit I am one of them). Hence, no matter what he does will be criticized at this point. It's like political leaders. People are just entrenched in their hatered for certain leaders be it to the left or to the right and every move they make at this point will never make people satisfied. Any action (good or bad) is just a fodder for more criticism, mostly not even on the topic.
I can respect this...good post
 

417

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Feb 20, 2003
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Euh, no, you can't. Sergachev's issues have nothing to do with inconsistent efforts.
Completely disagree

Ya...so? You can be critical or even derogatory and still not want your GM to trade an asset for a return you deem inadequate.

Sometimes you need to make drastic analogies so the person you speak to understands your point, especially one that has difficulty seeing the grey zone.
lol ok

What?? ..You see...it's these types of responses you give that make quite a few posters think you like to play devil's advocate.
You and/or others are allowed to think whatever you want about me.

I've said this to you for years, somehow, you're still grasping to understand it. I want a clear direction. Simple, the majority of posters understand what I mean by that, not sure why you're struggling.
There's nothing difficult to grasp here...I just think a direction has been chosen, you just refuse to acknowledge it.

This has already been answered to you...for someone who tells others about covering their eyes and screaming, you sure are leading the way.
You kept saying how he's chosen a direction which is to ''get younger and faster'' diregarding the obvious fact this isn't a direction.
Says who? Who made you ruling authority?

You're not in a position to tell me what I should think.

You can get younger and faster yet still be at the bottom of the league or middle of the pack. That's like saying we want to get bigger. Okay, great, so...are we looking to compete in 3 years? 5 years? now? What is the window? Rebuild or POs?..This is what people mean when discussing a ''direction''..Not how old/fast players are.
I mean, there is no reason for you not to know this. Also, this has been explained to you on more than one occasion already. Some of your answers are very odd..
The GM told you it's not a rebuild...he told you it's a reset and that competing for the playoffs is their goal.

That's as clear of a message as can be and he's backed this up with moves that support this "reset".

I don't really care if you've explained to me 10000 times, I don't agree...
 

417

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Feb 20, 2003
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No actually...it's not like that.

What is like is some posters taking the position of others a tad too extreme and missing simple points being presented.
Well perhaps if certain posters hadn't taken such an extreme view of Andrew Shaw in the first place...we wouldn't have to be having this discussion.
 

417

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Feb 20, 2003
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You know there's a world of difference between trading pick #39 and pick #45 in the same day of the draft then trading for pick #i don't know and pick #i don't know in a year and 2 years away from the day of the trade. On top of that, when we traded for Shaw he never put more than 34 points and now he just came out of a 47 points season. And in the end, it's a lower return than what we've paid no matter what the picks are.
Firstly, they are 2020 draft picks...so they're not 2 years away from the day of the trade.

Secondly, like you said, you don't know what # those picks will be at...Maybe Kane blows his knee at training camp and Hawks end up in the bottom 5.

In either scenario, the difference between what they paid to acquire Shaw vs what they received to trade him back to Chicago...is not a huge difference. It's certainly can't be defined as "giving him away".

And for the last couple of months Shaw was on my list of trade bait, just like Lehkonen, Drouin and Byron…...but to fix one of our holes, not future picks. I always said that when you trade an NHLer with term, you must get another NHLer. Said it when he traded Eller and i'm still saying it today.
So picks can't be used to fix holes? hmmm...OK then, I won't even bother posting the amount of trades where draft picks went one way and an established player went the other way.

We'd be here all day.

And i would be as pissed about Bergevin trading any of those players for picks too. All assets should have been use to get what this teams needed, form Shaw, Cap Space and picks

But as the day Bergevin traded for Shaw and traded away Shaw….in both case,the return was not what the teams needed.
Back then we needed size, we needed centers…..and he got Shaw.
Now we needed size and needed a LHD.....and he got picks.

Those picks might help the team by 2024.....but just like Eller's return, it might take even longer than that.
So how it hell that trade helps the team going into next year? Plain and simple, it doesn't help at all.
You have a very narrow view of how draft picks can be used as assets.

It appears you think draft picks are to be used exclusively by the team owning the draft pick, to draft players, and nothing else.

I mean...let's just ignore that our 2nd best Dman, Jeff Petry, was acquired for a 2nd round pick.

That never happened and trades like that NEVER happen.

Got it
 

habsfan891

Registered User
Jun 24, 2012
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Nova Scotia
The GM told you it's not a rebuild...he told you it's a reset and that competing for the playoffs is their goal.

That's as clear of a message as can be and he's backed this up with moves that support this "reset".

I don't really care if you've explained to me 10000 times, I don't agree...
You and I have different opinions of what a reset is then because to me trying to make the playoffs should only come after the reset has been completed otherwise its a middle of the road no direction strategy that hasn't in the entire history of the nhl ever worked.
 

417

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You and I have different opinions of what a reset is then because to me trying to make the playoffs should only come after the reset has been completed otherwise its a middle of the road no direction strategy that hasn't in the entire history of the nhl ever worked.
"trying" to make the playoffs is something Bergeve SPOKE about...it's called setting a standard that you want your team to try to strive for.

Would you have preferred if he said that he wanted his team to be the absolute worse that they can be? I don't get it, since when is speaking into existence wanting to make the playoffs as a bad thing?

I bet if you asked 30 other GM's before the season started what their goal was, I'd wager the majority of them would say that making the playoffs was there goal.

But If making the playoffs was the absolute for Bergevin, you would have seen him be way more active at the trade deadline, he would have packaged the many picks we had at the 2019 draft, along with some of our prospects and moved them for short term help to get in the playoffs.

But we didn't see that did we?

No, instead, we saw him make depth moves which didn't cost much in terms of picks, then in the offseason, he continued his "reset" by moving Andrew Shaw, which for now should pave the way for one of the younger prospects to potentially grab a spot.

This doesn't seem like someone who doesn't know what direction he's headed in.

Like i'm not sure what the disconnect here is.

The GM told every Habs fans that he wants to make the team younger and faster...

So why are you perplexed when he trades Andrew Shaw???

Like he literally told you what he's trying to do lol
 

habsfan891

Registered User
Jun 24, 2012
8,725
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"trying" to make the playoffs is something Bergeve SPOKE about...it's called setting a standard that you want your team to try to strive for.

Would you have preferred if he said that he wanted his team to be the absolute worse that they can be? I don't get it, since when is speaking into existence wanting to make the playoffs as a bad thing?

I bet if you asked 30 other GM's before the season started what their goal was, I'd wager the majority of them would say that making the playoffs was there goal.

But If making the playoffs was the absolute for Bergevin, you would have seen him be way more active at the trade deadline, he would have packaged the many picks we had at the 2019 draft, along with some of our prospects and moved them for short term help to get in the playoffs.

But we didn't see that did we?

No, instead, we saw him make depth moves which didn't cost much in terms of picks, then in the offseason, he continued his "reset" by moving Andrew Shaw, which for now should pave the way for one of the younger prospects to potentially grab a spot.

This doesn't seem like someone who doesn't know what direction he's headed in.

Like i'm not sure what the disconnect here is.

The GM told every Habs fans that he wants to make the team younger and faster...

So why are you perplexed when he trades Andrew Shaw???

Like he literally told you what he's trying to do lol
I'm not perplexed that he traded Shaw I have no problem with it, he should be saying however that he intends to make this team into a contender by any means possible not make the playoffs and anything can happen garbage. As far as I can tell so far his "reset" consists of shuffling deck chairs instead of actual improvement which is unacceptable imo.
 

417

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I'm not perplexed that he traded Shaw I have no problem with it, he should be saying however that he intends to make this team into a contender by any means possible not make the playoffs and anything can happen garbage.
Really who cares what he says at this point...it's what he does.

As far as I can tell so far his "reset" consists of shuffling deck chairs instead of actual improvement which is unacceptable imo.
I never said he's going about this reset the right way. That's another discussion.

But so far, since he brought up this "reset" notion...

He traded his captain/leading scorer, traded his 1st ever draft pick and traded his "50 point winger" and added multiple picks for current and future entry drafts.

These aren't the moves of a team whose goal is to make the playoffs at all cost.

But that's just me...apparently, i'm crazy for see this as it is.
 

DramaticGloveSave

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Apr 17, 2017
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The future roster looks great at least

Domi-KK-Gallagher
Caulfield-Poehling-Suzuki
Drouin-Danault-Yolo
Teasdale-Oloffson-McCarron

Romanov-Brook
Mete-Weber
Struble/Harris/Norlinder-Juulsen/Fleury

Primeau

And that’s not counting future picks and returns for Petry, Tatar, and Byron...
 

Runner77

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Jun 24, 2012
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You and I have different opinions of what a reset is then because to me trying to make the playoffs should only come after the reset has been completed otherwise its a middle of the road no direction strategy that hasn't in the entire history of the nhl ever worked.

I see it the same way. A reset is a prelude to making the playoffs. Saying you’re doing both sends a mixed message. Words matter but not to this GM. He says virtually anything, the more contradictory and obscure, the easier for him to absolve himself of responsibility when his team ends up in no man’s land. Never understood the idea of a reset where your team ends up with the worst lottery pick in the draft.
 
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