Has anyone else noticed that this is bringing out the "weird" in some people?

DatSnipeMatthews

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Oct 5, 2017
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Your average person does not know what skepticism is and do not use the term correctly. To be a skeptic is to withhold judgement on something until it is demonstrated to be factual, or at least the best explanation available. With the scientific method, for example, it's critical to withhold judgement until you can make observations, test and verify them. When someone claims to be a skeptic in response to established facts, established scientific theories, etc., they are not being a skeptic, they are being incredulous.
Well said!

For covid-19, the peer reviewed research is available for free. Anyone can access it. Anyone can look at the methodology, and question it. Then again, maybe I’m coming from a privileged position where I understand the scientific method.
 

TaLoN

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"They just want to inject me with trackers," said the guy posting from a public ISP, carrying around a traceable cell phone in his pocket everywhere he goes.
Or how about everytime a new piece of document or ID is issued... "they just want to assign us a number!"

You mean, besides your social security number and your driver's license number?
 
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Blender

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Dec 2, 2009
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"They just want to inject me with trackers," said the guy posting from a public ISP, carrying around a traceable cell phone in his pocket everywhere he goes.
"Yea but these new trackers will record and transmit biometric data", said the person walking around with a Fitbit or similar fitness watch.
 

TaLoN

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"Yea but these new trackers will record and transmit biometric data", said the person walking around with a Fitbit or similar fitness watch.
Or use their smartphone health app to track their walks/ runs/ workouts, pulse and oximeter readings etc.
 

Lazlo Hollyfeld

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"They just want to inject me with trackers," said the guy posting from a public ISP, carrying around a traceable cell phone in his pocket everywhere he goes.
That probably also has a facebook page where his every move online is tracked, regularly searches in google resulting in the same...
 

BenchBrawl

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Jul 26, 2010
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What people call the "weird" is all those instinctual mechanisms that the "modern is superior" crowd have been dismissing for years not realizing ancestral instincts and deep intuitions are more proven heuristics than "reason" and "science", even if we are not to discount the two latter as useful tools for sophisticated tasks. It's the tyranny of reason basically.

Respect astrology as an heuristic even if you don't believe in it. It is time-tested by virtue of it's long-term survival. Most people pay a few bucks and feel good for a few days. Like going to the movies. Or it's a front for finding someone to talk about your issues, a space psychology tried to occupy (without succeeding in becoming a monopoly). Or it fills people's desire for mysticity or spirituality. Or for certainty. Regardless, it works for some societal function. Then some minor % of people have an unhealthy relationship with it, like almost all activities. Doesn't change what I said. "But BenchBrawl, it's not scientific". So?

The COVID-19 pandemic crisis turned the switch on for many of those mecanisms.
 
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Treb

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What people call the "weird" is all those instinctual mechanisms that the "modern is superior" crowd have been dismissing for years not realizing ancestral instincts and deep intuitions are more proven heuristics than "reason" and "science", even if we are not to discount the two latter as useful tools for sophisticated tasks. It's the tyranny of reason basically.

Respect astrology as an heuristic even if you don't believe in it. It is time-tested by virtue of it's long-term survival. Most people pay a few bucks and feel good for a few days. Like going to the movies. Or it's a front for finding someone to talk about your issues, a space psychology as a field tried to occupy. Or it fills people's desire for mysticity or spirituality. Or for certainty. Regardless, it works for some societal function. Then some minor % of people have an unhealthy relationship with it, like almost all activities. Doesn't change what I said. "But BenchBrawl, it's not scientific". So?

There's quite a jump between astrology and ''5G controls the virus and Bill Gates is putting nanobots in the vaccine to control us all''.
 

BenchBrawl

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There's quite a jump between astrology and ''5G controls the virus and Bill Gates is putting nanobots in the vaccine to control us all''.

Not at all when stripped to its skeletal form. Putting aside the issue of schizophrenia or related psychotic/paranoid illnesses, there isn't. It's just an heuristic, or probably a bunch of heuristics, be it the desire to belong to some group, some tribal antagonism, the need for certainty, a channel to project your fear on, whatever.

Astrology just managed to have some sort of essence inside it that made it a channel that survived from generation to generation, meaning it's a better channel than most of those that disappeared and were "one hit wonders" of their time since they lacked a lasting power. The connection between celestial objects and earthly occurences is a very good foundation when you think about it, because you have a lot of simple things concentrated in this framework, be it people's wonder for the mysteries of life and the universe, the need to explain synchronicity events, as well as all the human side where talented astrologers would just be talented psychologists if they studied in that field.
 

Treb

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Not at all when stripped to its skeletal form. Putting aside the issue of schizophrenia or related psychotic/paranoid illnesses, there isn't. It's just an heuristic, or probably a bunch of heuristics, be it the desire to belong to some group, some tribal antagonism, the need for certainty, a channel to project your fear on, whatever.

Astrology just managed to have some sort of essence inside it that made it a channel that survived from generation to generation, meaning it's a better channel than most of those that disappeared and were "one hit wonders" of their time since they lacked a lasting power.

That's like saying addiction to Pepsi (astrology) and addiction to heroine (conspiracy theories) is the same thing.
 

BenchBrawl

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Paranoïa, too, serves a very important societal function (but it can also go astray in individuals). Paranoïa survived because those that survived were paranoïd enough to pass on the gene, consistently so. I'm personally happy that some % of humanity is paranoid about Bill Gates, despite me not being so.
 

BenchBrawl

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That's like saying addiction to Pepsi (astrology) and addiction to heroine (conspiracy theories) is the same thing.

I was addicted to both pepsi and drugs in my youth, and I'm fairly sure my pepsi addiction has done more damage to my life. Regardless, by the principle of charity to your point, addiction stripped to its essence is still the same. That some individual go astray is unavoidable, but my point is a societal one, not an individual one. It is probably not a good idea for a specific person to go too deep into conspiracy theories, but it is good for a tribe to have paranoid individuals. Even for a specific person, to be paranoid (up to a point) is a good heuristic to protect yourself from black swan occurrences, which have a disproportionate impact and pose a disproportionate danger despite not being regular and unpredictable by definition.
 

Treb

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Paranoïa, too, serves a very important societal function (but it can also go astray in individuals). Paranoïa survived because those that survived were paranoïd enough to pass on the gene, consistently so. I'm personally happy that some % of humanity is paranoid about Bill Gates, despite me not being so.

1. Natural selection pretty much stopped in humans thousands of years ago when we became a society.

2. Paranoia is not purely genetic.

3. Most conspiracy theorist would not be diagnosed with a paranoia disorder.
 

BenchBrawl

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1. Natural selection pretty much stopped in humans thousands of years ago when we became a society.

2. Paranoia is not purely genetic.

3. Most conspiracy theorist would not be diagnosed with a paranoia disorder.

Regardless, I'm not here to write a thesis, it's clear what I'm aiming at. It is good to have a % of the group be fearful of dangers that look far-fetched, but that if they occurred, would cause a disproportionate amount of damage to the group (ruin).

As you say, most conspiracy theorists don't suffer from a mental illness. That means they are functional (to varying degrees, like non-conspiracy theorists). So that means their conspiracy theory heuristic serves a purpose either to them or to the group or both. You can also see a bunch of them being able to use reason very sharply in some field, then claim totally irrational conspiracy theorists and believe in them dead seriously. You see already the limit of reason. Reason is like a sharp knife, useful for a surgery. Otherwise, it's not the end all be all. The conspiracy theory side serves some emotional or instinctual purpose, for the individual and for the group (that would need to be unpacked more clearly, but that is probably a work for a decade and maybe a life).
 

Treb

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May 31, 2011
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Regardless, I'm not here to write a thesis, it's clear what I'm aiming at. It is good to have a % of the group be fearful of dangers that look far-fetched, but that if they occurred, would cause a disproportionate amount of damage to the group (ruin).

As you say, most conspiracy theorists don't suffer from a mental illness. That means they are functional (to varying degrees, like non-conspiracy theorists). So that means their conspiracy theory heuristic serves a purpose either to them or to the group or both. You can also see a bunch of them being able to use reason very sharply in some field, then claim totally irrational conspiracy theorists and believe in them dead seriously. You see already the limit of reason. Reason is like a sharp knife, useful for a surgery. Otherwise, it's not the end all be all. The conspiracy theory side serves some emotional or instinctual purpose, for the individual and for the group (that would need to be unpacked more clearly, but that is probably a work for a decade and maybe a life).

Conspiracy theorist contribute nothing positive to society by believing garbage. Let's agree to disagree.
 
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BenchBrawl

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Conspiracy theorist contribute nothing positive to society by believing garbage. Let's agree to disagree.

I completely disagree yeah, so agreed. The contribution is "meta" but it is there. Like psychopaths contribute nothing to society, but the psychopathic element in our diversity serves a purpose for some situations that increases our overall chance of survival in the long run. Is rational what boost your chance of survival.
 

Pookie

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Oct 23, 2013
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"They just want to inject me with trackers," said the guy posting from a public ISP, carrying around a traceable cell phone in his pocket everywhere he goes.

Not to mention giving his data away for free with every google search or app he downloads into said phone.

Wonder if he’s got Alexa to turn his lights on?
 

Pookie

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Oct 23, 2013
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I completely disagree yeah, so agreed. The contribution is "meta" but it is there. Like psychopaths contribute nothing to society, but the psychopathic element in our diversity serves a purpose for some situations that increases our overall chance of survival in the long run. Is rational what boost your chance of survival.

I’m not sure I follow you about increasing our chance for survival.

Skeptical is one thing. Convinced in an alternative reality without evidence is another.

To me, conspiracy theory serves a more basic self servicing purpose.

When exposed to facts that run counter to an established belief we feel cognitive dissonance.

So, we want to find ways to reduce that dissonance as it’s uncomfortable.

For those really uncomfortable things, you can either change your views to mesh with the evidence or discount the evidence to allow you to keep your view.

For example, this is how Dissonance can be both positive and how it can be negative:

ViewFact New View/Action
healthyGained 20 Covid poundsNot healthy. Need to lose weight
Racist 1st Black President elected What? Maybe he wasn’t born here though so it doesn’t count? Ok, yeah. Let's go with that. Get validation from birther movement
Lots of people I know work in Coal, as did my familyClimate change will be deadly Says here, Climate change evidence is sketchy and it’s a green conspiracy. Coal production is ok.
Vaccines=badNeed a COVID vaccine to create immunity Vaccines are part of a global conspiracy. No way will I take something that is part of a global conspiracy.
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Conspiracy theories only function to alleviate dissonance caused by facing reality.

Birthers, Climate Change deniers or Anti-Vax views don’t contribute anything positive in society.

They allow some really harmful actions to continue that are counter productive to the survival of the species.

The only benefit they serve is making the individual feel better by denying reality.
 
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