Nick Hansen
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Has 40 goals always been the mark for a really good scorer?
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BenchBrawl
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Not always been that way.For example Charlie Conacher won 5 goalscoring titles and his best was 36 goals.Bryan Hextall Sr. was considered one of the best goalscorer of his time and he never cracked 30 goals.Bill Cook's best was 33 goals.Babe Dye, 38 goals, won four goalscoring titles.
For more recent, Maurice Richard won titles with 37 and 38 goals in the mid-1950s.This was a decade after his 50 in 50, which occured in a war year.He also won two other titles with 40+ goals in between.
The best totals were fluctuating quite a bit.
For more recent, Maurice Richard won titles with 37 and 38 goals in the mid-1950s.This was a decade after his 50 in 50, which occured in a war year.He also won two other titles with 40+ goals in between.
The best totals were fluctuating quite a bit.
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Canadiens1958
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Thenameless
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Nick Hansen
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Okay, context's been added to the thread... Seems to me the 40-goal mark might've been established in the late 60's or early 70's... Hull unique in 65-66 but when he scored 58 in 68-69 there were five other players with +40 goals.
BenchBrawl
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You can say that 50 goals has been special ever since the Rocket, but the specialness of it varies.That's about as far as you'll go dealing with pure totals.
Else, use VsX for goals.
For example, in 1992-1993, 5 players scored 60 goals, 14 players scored 50 goals, and 25 scored 40 goals.So clearly it wasn't that special to do it that year.But the number 50 stuck around despite the fluctuations because it always means you're "among the best goalscorers".In 2018, it means you're the best period.
The same phenomenon occurs with 100 pts.People see it as special, and it is... to varying degrees.
Else, use VsX for goals.
For example, in 1992-1993, 5 players scored 60 goals, 14 players scored 50 goals, and 25 scored 40 goals.So clearly it wasn't that special to do it that year.But the number 50 stuck around despite the fluctuations because it always means you're "among the best goalscorers".In 2018, it means you're the best period.
The same phenomenon occurs with 100 pts.People see it as special, and it is... to varying degrees.
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The Panther
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Nowadays, 40 goals is quite an achievement. It was also quite an achievement in the 1950s and 1960s (and in the 1940s, though rarely done).
Between 1940 and 1960, only twelve 40-goal seasons occurred. The first seven of those were ALL by Maurice Richard (x4) and Gordie Howe (x3) (Gordie also had a 4th). Beliveau (x2), Bathgate, D. Moore, F. Mahovlich, Geoffrion, Hull (x4), and N. Ullman complete the players who achieved it in those years.
Maurice Richard was thus the only hockey player to score 40 goals in a season during the 1940s, and he did it three times (counting 1949-50).
Bobby Hull's 54 were the most anybody had ever scored in a season before expansion, after which Hull pushed that up to 58 (1968-69), and then Phil Esposito destroyed this, going to 71 in 1970-71. That was the most until Gretzky in 1981-82, which has yet to be topped (Gretzky himself came closest in 1983-84).
So, obviously the old days were way different, but consider that there were twelve 40-goal seasons from 1940 to 1960, and in 1992-93 alone twenty-five players scored 40+ goals.
I will say that since I started watching NHL in 1986-ish, I've always felt that 50 goals was the magical number for an elite goal-scorer. It didn't matter if it was 1987, 1997, 2007, or 2017 -- if you hit 50, you were an elite goal-scorer. It's still that way, of course, but 50 is now quite rare.
Between 1940 and 1960, only twelve 40-goal seasons occurred. The first seven of those were ALL by Maurice Richard (x4) and Gordie Howe (x3) (Gordie also had a 4th). Beliveau (x2), Bathgate, D. Moore, F. Mahovlich, Geoffrion, Hull (x4), and N. Ullman complete the players who achieved it in those years.
Maurice Richard was thus the only hockey player to score 40 goals in a season during the 1940s, and he did it three times (counting 1949-50).
Bobby Hull's 54 were the most anybody had ever scored in a season before expansion, after which Hull pushed that up to 58 (1968-69), and then Phil Esposito destroyed this, going to 71 in 1970-71. That was the most until Gretzky in 1981-82, which has yet to be topped (Gretzky himself came closest in 1983-84).
So, obviously the old days were way different, but consider that there were twelve 40-goal seasons from 1940 to 1960, and in 1992-93 alone twenty-five players scored 40+ goals.
I will say that since I started watching NHL in 1986-ish, I've always felt that 50 goals was the magical number for an elite goal-scorer. It didn't matter if it was 1987, 1997, 2007, or 2017 -- if you hit 50, you were an elite goal-scorer. It's still that way, of course, but 50 is now quite rare.
TheDevilMadeMe
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Johnny Engine
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The other thing is, popular conception of what those numbers mean can take a while to catch up with reality. I've often seen Phil Kessel referred to as a "40 goal scorer" despite never doing any such thing. Part of that definitely involves over-eager fans rounding up his real totals. But the other thing is that Kessel is exactly what we expect a 40-goal scorer to look like - a just-under-elite sniper who can hang with the Kovalchuks and Pavelskis in the lower reaches of the top 10. The fact that 40 goals has recently been the domain of guys who are straight-up gunning for the Rocket Richard Trophy isn't something that our basic shorthand descriptions of players has adjusted to.
VanIslander
A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
No.
I've only been watching hockey since the 1970's so I suspect older posters might think 'Hell no!'
I've only been watching hockey since the 1970's so I suspect older posters might think 'Hell no!'
alko
Registered User
No. Last 5 or maybe more season, every player who has more that 30 goals, is the goal-machine. Player with more like 20 goals is a scorer (see Tomas Tatar case).
The Panther
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Wow, I really disagree.
In the last five seasons, there have been 122 player/seasons of 30 or more goals. I don't see Jason Pominville, Kyle Palmieri, Boone Jenner, Loui Eriksson, Radim Vrbata, Vincent Trochek, Brendan Gallagher, Nazem Kadri, and Anders Lee as "goal machines".
I'd say nowadays, 40 goals makes you an elite goal-scorer. Sure, there have only been 21 such in the past five seasons, but that's still several.
However, I maintain that a 50-goal season is the universal elite, since 1945.
Zegras Zebra
Registered User
I think consistency has to be a factor as well. Sure a lot of players in a high scoring era playing with an elite playmaker could fluke their way into a 40 goal season, but to do it year after year is another thing entirely. Era really matters when talking about it. Right now a 40 goal season is a significant accomplishment. In the 1980's not as much, but still probably meant you were a decent player, just not a near elite player.
GlitchMarner
Typical malevolent, devious & vile Maple Leafs fan
I wouldn't say that 40 goals has always been the mark for a really good goal scorer.
Mike Gartner had nine seasons of 40 or more goals. Other than Ovechkin, that's probably more than any active player. But he's not seen as having been a truly elite or "really good" goal scorer, just a consistently good one for a long time.
Dino Ciccarelli had more than 40 goals seven times. How many active players have hit the 40 goal mark even five times?
Mike Gartner had nine seasons of 40 or more goals. Other than Ovechkin, that's probably more than any active player. But he's not seen as having been a truly elite or "really good" goal scorer, just a consistently good one for a long time.
Dino Ciccarelli had more than 40 goals seven times. How many active players have hit the 40 goal mark even five times?
DJ Man
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Lloyd Pettit, the Black Hawks announcer, used to remind us when a player celebrated his 30th goal, that it meant "bonus money" due to the contracts of the time.
I think that standard ended in 1968-69, when the Hawks had a terrible season, finishing 6th in the East and out of the playoffs. Several players rang in at 30 goals (exactly). I remember some fan being interviewed after the game. "Those guys," he complained, "are the worst thirty goal scorers in the league!"
I think that standard ended in 1968-69, when the Hawks had a terrible season, finishing 6th in the East and out of the playoffs. Several players rang in at 30 goals (exactly). I remember some fan being interviewed after the game. "Those guys," he complained, "are the worst thirty goal scorers in the league!"
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ForsbergForever
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Ever since Joe Malone scored 43 (in 20 games) in 1912-13, I'd say 40 has been the threshold to cross for goalscoring greatness. Obviously 50 and then 60 goals became new standards along the way but as other have said, if you can hit 40 you break into at least the fringes of the ranks of elite talents.
DannyGallivan
Your world frightens and confuses me
When I first started watching hockey in the 70's, I considered scoring like like this:
1. 60- plus: Your name is Phil Esposito (A +++)
2. 50 - plus: Among the very best snipers in the game, perhaps who ever played... give or take a rare career year by Hadfield, Larouche or Hodge (A):
3. 40-plus: You are allowed to call yourself an elite goal scorer (B+ to A-)
4. 30-plus: You can call yourself a scoring threat (B to B+)
5. 20-plus: You're a good supporting cast member (B-)
6. 10 - 19: You didn't get a lot of ice time or you're in your 40's. (D to C+)
Today, it's like this:
1. 60 - plus: You don't exist.
2. 50 - plus: You are the best goal scorer in the world right now. (A +++)
3. 40 - plus: You are among the very best snipers in the game. (A)
4. 30 - plus: You are allowed to call yourself an elite goal scorer (B+ to A-)
5. 20-plus: Scoring threat (B to B+)
6. 10-19: You're a good supporting cast member (C+ to B-)
7. 1 -9: You're a defensive specialist, didn't get a lot of ice time, or aren't very good (F to C-)
1. 60- plus: Your name is Phil Esposito (A +++)
2. 50 - plus: Among the very best snipers in the game, perhaps who ever played... give or take a rare career year by Hadfield, Larouche or Hodge (A):
3. 40-plus: You are allowed to call yourself an elite goal scorer (B+ to A-)
4. 30-plus: You can call yourself a scoring threat (B to B+)
5. 20-plus: You're a good supporting cast member (B-)
6. 10 - 19: You didn't get a lot of ice time or you're in your 40's. (D to C+)
Today, it's like this:
1. 60 - plus: You don't exist.
2. 50 - plus: You are the best goal scorer in the world right now. (A +++)
3. 40 - plus: You are among the very best snipers in the game. (A)
4. 30 - plus: You are allowed to call yourself an elite goal scorer (B+ to A-)
5. 20-plus: Scoring threat (B to B+)
6. 10-19: You're a good supporting cast member (C+ to B-)
7. 1 -9: You're a defensive specialist, didn't get a lot of ice time, or aren't very good (F to C-)
