Prospect Info: Hartford Wolf Pack (AHL)/Maine Mariners (ECHL) Thread *Part X*
- Thread starter nyr2k2
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Osminator
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For the "wins don't matter, playoffs don't matter for the AHL affiliate" crowd... choke on this:
Mike McKenna
@MikeMcKenna56
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20h
Roope was good for us in Cedar Park last season. He was GREAT in playoffs. It's exactly why your affiliate needs to be in playoffs. Those extra high-pressure games are invaluable. So many guys on our team kept improving as we went and got significant NHL time this season.
Mike McKenna
@MikeMcKenna56
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20h
Roope was good for us in Cedar Park last season. He was GREAT in playoffs. It's exactly why your affiliate needs to be in playoffs. Those extra high-pressure games are invaluable. So many guys on our team kept improving as we went and got significant NHL time this season.
Lindberg Cheese
Registered User
Yeah that’s gross, it’ll be even grosser when Hajek makes the team. I have a feeling that besides the annual AAAA guys, NYR draft some overagers with late picks - seems to be a trend now
I think that's a very good point. I know myself I went into the season thinking that with so many more good prospects than before that Hartford would be much better. But what good does it do Hartford if they are in Europe, college, or juniors?
Still looking forward to changes, though.
eco's bones
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A good % of our best prospects were also recently drafted and you'd expect that Kravtsov was going to do at least another year in the KHL and that Miller (who has only been playing defense for about three years) was going to go to a college program and that Lundkvist wasn't ready for North America--that he needs to get a little bigger and stronger. The Wolfpack also missed out on Chytil and Howden as well who made the Rangers out of camp and only got Andersson for a couple/three months. If we had a deeper NHL team these guys might have spent most of the year in the AHL. A year or two years from now we're going to have higher quality players in Hartford because these players are going to be coming and that should not only make Hartford a better team but we should have higher quality (more NHL ready) call-ups.
- Sep 1, 2010
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i guess "Crap Line" is where you slot guys among Ronning, Newell, Jones, Leedahl, (all signed) Virta(?)
we'll see
personally, I'd like Chytil and Howden to cycle thru Hartford for occasional stints of big minutes, all situations, top 6 time, but if it didn't happen this year ...
we know the new coach will likely bring in a couple guys who he has had before
Beacon
Embrace the tank
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I'd like the Crap Line not to be a crap line where Ronning keeps falling on his butt 3 times shift, but a AAAA line. Need to get into the playoffs one of these years.
eco's bones
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I'm all in the camp of the Rangers going out and signing 2 or 3 high end AHL producing vets for next year. Winning does create a better atmosphere for developing your players in and going to the playoffs puts developing players in situations they won't get if they don't go.
As for McCambridge I can't imagine he was as bad as Gernander became. To me he didn't always have a whole lot to work with. There were times last year when he had at least 6 or 7 ECHL callups in his lineup and some of them weren't even coming out of the Rangers Maine affiliate. Even so maybe we can find someone better than McCambridge but the point I'm making is expecting a quality team without quality players--ones who can lead a team on the ice--is expecting too much.
As for McCambridge I can't imagine he was as bad as Gernander became. To me he didn't always have a whole lot to work with. There were times last year when he had at least 6 or 7 ECHL callups in his lineup and some of them weren't even coming out of the Rangers Maine affiliate. Even so maybe we can find someone better than McCambridge but the point I'm making is expecting a quality team without quality players--ones who can lead a team on the ice--is expecting too much.
Again with the 4A players, they had Cole Schneider and Peter Holland. Bobby Butler was a higher-end AHL player. Beleskey should have been a good player down there. On defense there's nothing wrong with a veteran core of Bigras-O'Gara-Gilmour. I'm not saying the team should have been a juggernaut but it's not as if Drury left them completely bereft of veteran leadership and skill.
Day making the NHL roster seems extremely implausible to me. He made some strides last year which was great, but he's not close at all. IMO.
UnSandvich
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- Sep 7, 2017
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Pretty sure Beacon's one of the people who's always been down on Day, and therefore has him in the ECHL
Definitely could be. Either way, with his ECHL performance, and his AHL performance over his final 30± games, I think Day showed that the AHL is where he belongs.
UnSandvich
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Beacon
Embrace the tank
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Or I had him at #7. Keep in mind that the AHL needs twice as many replacements because both AHL and NHL injuries effect them, so a 7D could play 60+ games.
leetch99
Leetch66 Joined 2007
Go after UNB hockey coach Gardiner MacDougall and offer him enticing enough money to jump from the college ranks . His teams just win win win.....dominant in Canadian Intercollegiate Hockey .
eco's bones
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Butler was awful. Beleskey's game is nowhere near where it used to be. Schneider got moved for Brickley who about 3 weeks later was called up by the Rangers and never went back and Holland got moved for Raddysh--a right D whose offense disappeared as soon as we got him. The Pack also lost Nieves pretty early, Andersson for more than half a season and Lettieri for long stretches and even Fogarty for a while. So they had St. Amant (44 games--6 points), Ronning (23 games--5 points), O'Donnell (53 games--8 points), Leedahl (29 games--0 points), Wallin (23 games-1 point), Melanson (10 games--1 point), Lynch (6 games--0 points), Chase (5 games--0 points), (Kile 2 games--1 point) and at the end Dmowski (10 games--4 points), Jones (10 games--3 points), Elmer (5 games--4 points), Newell (6 games--1 point), Zerter Gossage (5 games--2 points) and McBride (5 games-1 point) for forward replacements. The college signees and Elmer at the end were more productive than the ECHL callups throughout the season.
On defense the Wolfpack had some of the same issues. Bigras their best all around D got hurt and was out the last third of the season. O'Gara as well missed almost all of the second half of the season. Crawley was injured a couple times and Hajek injured on his callup to the Rangers. Raddysh and Bergman didn't work out great. The Rangers band aids were Carolina reject Josh Wesley (15 games--1 point), Matt Finn (4 games--0 points), Matt Register (5 games--1 point) and Zach Tolkinen playing his first AHL games as a 29 year old (9 games--0 points).
None of the goalies did that well including Georgiev who had an .883 save % and only 2 wins in 11 decisions. There were stretches where Mazanec, Tokarski and Halverson did well but none of them could really sustain it for a lengthy period. I'm on the fence as far as giving Halverson another year. I would be alright if we didn't. I really don't think he's NHL material.
The brightest lights for the season were Fogarty and Lettieri on offense and Gilmour on D. Lindgren had a good first season and Hajek made an excellent impression when he was called up. Bigras was pretty solid--then got hurt. Andersson started off very well--got called up, struggled and hit the skids when he was sent back to Hartford. An underwhelming season IMO. Meskanan and Gettinger had good starts but couldn't sustain throughout the year. Gropp improved after being recalled from his demotion to Maine. Fontaine--modest progress. Day and Crawley--okay years I guess.
Yes, this is all true. But again, my point is that I keep seeing people say, "they need better players." I think the roster, as constructed at the beginning of the year (on paper! Looking at Butler and Beleskey) should have been enough to be competitive.
They weren't competitive due to some unexpectedly poor performances, some injuries, call-ups, and other circumstances. I just don't agree that they didn't have players capable of competing. I think Drury did a decent job assembling a team with veterans to lead the team while also leaving room for the large influx of young players we had last year.
eco's bones
Registered User
Well if we do the deal for Callahan--that's if Tampa's offers to upgrade the 2nd to the 1st--we should also have them include Barre-Boulet or Verhaeghe. Younger guys who can score at that level. Part of the issue also is a lot of first and second year guys but Butler was just crap--they got a bad read off of him. Beleskey more or less gave what he has the last two years. Guys they were counting on underwhelmed and at the same time the depth stunk and there were goaltending issues. The more I think about it the more I think we should cut ties with Halverson.
After the season I did this analysis on Day and Gropp but realized it was on the prospects page. I agree with nyr2k2 and unsandvich that Day belongs in the AHL.
"I went back to check how Sean Day and Ryan Gropp did after their recall from Maine. Both got off to bad starts in Hartford and were sent down. Both played very well in Maine and were recalled on December 27.
From December 27 Sean Day played in 40 games scoring his 14 points, 3 goals, 7 A1 and 4 A2, -12 and 50 shots. But I noticed that Day's performance really picked up after several games. So in the final 32 games he had his 14 points, -10 and 50 shots.
Gropp had a similar uptick. Over that same period he played in 42 games with 21 points, 9G, 4A1 and 8 A2, was -2 and had 65 shots. But like Day he started slowly back in Hartford. In his final 32 games he had 19 points, 8G, 3A1 and 8 A2, was -4 and had 57 shots.
In Day's case I heard him on an interview and I think he initially was overwhelmed by the jump from Junior to the AHL. But after getting acclimated in the ECHL his play improved significantly. I don't know why Gropp would have had such a slow start as a second year player but after his demotion his game really picked up.
I think we all sometimes forget that with these prospects we are talking about young men who are maturing at different rates and have different levels of confidence. The question is whether if they have the skill and smarts, they can mature and develop the necessary level of confidence to continue to develop as players.
It is important that both of these players build on their back end of the season performance next year if they are going to have any chance to make it in the NHL. I think there is a pulse in both. But it is going to have to get stronger next year."
"I went back to check how Sean Day and Ryan Gropp did after their recall from Maine. Both got off to bad starts in Hartford and were sent down. Both played very well in Maine and were recalled on December 27.
From December 27 Sean Day played in 40 games scoring his 14 points, 3 goals, 7 A1 and 4 A2, -12 and 50 shots. But I noticed that Day's performance really picked up after several games. So in the final 32 games he had his 14 points, -10 and 50 shots.
Gropp had a similar uptick. Over that same period he played in 42 games with 21 points, 9G, 4A1 and 8 A2, was -2 and had 65 shots. But like Day he started slowly back in Hartford. In his final 32 games he had 19 points, 8G, 3A1 and 8 A2, was -4 and had 57 shots.
In Day's case I heard him on an interview and I think he initially was overwhelmed by the jump from Junior to the AHL. But after getting acclimated in the ECHL his play improved significantly. I don't know why Gropp would have had such a slow start as a second year player but after his demotion his game really picked up.
I think we all sometimes forget that with these prospects we are talking about young men who are maturing at different rates and have different levels of confidence. The question is whether if they have the skill and smarts, they can mature and develop the necessary level of confidence to continue to develop as players.
It is important that both of these players build on their back end of the season performance next year if they are going to have any chance to make it in the NHL. I think there is a pulse in both. But it is going to have to get stronger next year."
When I was involved in the minor leagues, I had many long talks with NHL GMs about this. Most telling was John Ferguson (when he was running Winnipeg) Let me paraphrase...
I’m only going to have 5-6 real prospects in the minor leagues. I’ll also have a couple of lottery tickets. The other 8-10 positions aren’t there for development. Get some good veterans who are role models and leaders and can also play winning hockey and that’s the minor league team that I want. Teach the prospects how to play and how to win.
Interesting point about Barre-Boulet. He was a free agent signing from the QMJHL. The Rangers have focused free agent and hartford signings on college free agents but have not dipped into junior hockey free agent pool very much. This year, Jake Elmer, 2018 none, 2017 Dawson Leedahl, 2014-2016 none although Michael Joly signed by Hartford in 2016. 2013 Troy Donnay. You have to go back to 2012 when the Rangers signed Tommy Hughes, Michael Kantor and and Josh Nicholls. There are several possible OHL and QMJHL free agents still playing in the playoffs that might help strengthen the Rangers-Wolfpack- Mariner system.
eco's bones
Registered User
And that makes sense to me and if we take a look back to the 90's Binghamton Rangers teams they were loaded with quality AHL players like Don Biggs and Craig Duncanson and Shawn McCosh but that was a great environment to stick the Kovalev's, Zubov's, Domi's, Norstrom's and Zamuner's in. All those guys (who were kids then) got plenty of ice time and they grew in a winning environment. As I said about Zubov--he wasn't expected to become a big time point produce but some of those Binghamton teams were scoring in the neighborhood of 400 goals a year.
But of the real prospects in Hartford last year--Georgiev (shuttled between Hartford and NY for a while) Andersson (split the season between the Pack and NY) Lindgren and Hajek spent most of the year in Hartford but each had a cup of coffee--actually Lindgren had two. Nieves got called up to be a 4th liner but he doesn't really have a whole lot of upside.
Fogarty's not really a prospect anymore but he's gotten better. Lettieri is a possible NHL player--same with Bigras. Gettinger, Fontaine and Meskanen are kind of iffy. So we really had a half dozen or so really legit prospects and most all of those guys got a chance to play with the Rangers but pretty much the rest of the team (or those not mentioned) were bad.
eco's bones
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Not always easy to find the right guys out of the CHL. Maybe Elmer will be--4 points in 5 games to close out the season. We don't have a very good history though. Girardi was a very good one though or at least until he got too old and banged up.
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