Hall Vs. Gaudreau

Which player is better RIGHT NOW.

  • Hall

  • Gaudreau

  • Too close to call


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WhiskeyYerTheDevils

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Apr 27, 2005
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You need to stop hating on Sean Monahan. it is getting ridiculous. Monahan is not a flashy player like Gaudreau but the guy produces points. At the end of the day that is all that matters. He has done it for years now and he did it before Gaudreau was even in the league. To even say that Bratt and Hischier are better than Monahan is absolutely comical. Monahan has a high hockey IQ and knows where to be to score goals. He just does not do it in a flashy way like johnny hockey.

I know, he's elite in that area. But he lacks in pretty much all other areas, though his defensive game has significantly improved over the past few years to the point I'd say he's above average in his own zone.

He's just too one dimensional offensively and is prone to long cold streaks of really really poor play. When he's hot he's excellent, but when he's fighting it he's borderline unwatchable.
 
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WhiskeyYerTheDevils

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The numbers are from his 19 year old rookie year or extremely small sample sizes.

Monahan would be more than fine without Gaudreau.

Actually, the numbers from his 19 year old season actually make it looks better. Excluding his rookie season Monahan's 5v5 P/60 without Gaudreau drops from 1.47 (~2,880 mins) to 1.43 (~1,215 mins).

The more you know, am I right?
 

Baxterman

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Aug 27, 2017
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Actually, the numbers from his 19 year old season actually make it looks better. Excluding his rookie season Monahan's 5v5 P/60 without Gaudreau drops from 1.47 (~2,880 mins) to 1.43 (~1,215 mins).

The more you know, am I right?

So it's based on a super small sample size then?
 

WhiskeyYerTheDevils

yer leadin me astray
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So it's based on a super small sample size then?

I wouldn't call over 1,200 mins of 5v5 ice time a "super small" sample size. That's an entire season+ of ice time at 5v5.

Just admit you were wrong and move on, this one isn't worth debating.
 

Baxterman

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Aug 27, 2017
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I wouldn't call over 1,200 mins of 5v5 ice time a "super small" sample size. That's an entire season+ of ice time at 5v5.

Just admit you were wrong and move on, this one isn't worth debating.

Except I wasn't wrong at all and it is a small sample size.

It isn't debating because it isn't an issue you are the one trying to spin it into an issue.
 

wasunder

Registered User
Aug 21, 2014
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It isn't really hard to understand losing Gaudreau would have a small impact on the Flames not a big one like dropping to bottom 5.
He's in on 42% of our teams goals. He is unquestionably the driving force of our offence.

I guess if you don't like scoring goals or winning games it wouldn't be too bad.
 
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WhiskeyYerTheDevils

yer leadin me astray
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Except I wasn't wrong at all and it is a small sample size.

It isn't debating because it isn't an issue you are the one trying to spin it into an issue.

1,200+ mins is a small sample size? [mod]
 
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Baxterman

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Aug 27, 2017
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He's in on 42% of our teams goals. He is unquestionably the driving force of our offence.

I guess if you don't like scoring goals or winning games it wouldn't be too bad.

There would be a drop off but not nearly as bad as people think.
 

Baxterman

Registered User
Aug 27, 2017
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What would be a large enough sample size for you?

At minimum a full season straight of him doing it not parts of seasons mashed into one group to try and pawn it off as though it is close to enough to determine anything.

But really he has already shown he is fine on his own without Douchereau so I am already confident in what he can do on his own.
 

barrsdow

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Jul 3, 2017
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In all situations this season . .

Monahan P/60 with Gaudreau:
2.93
Without Gaudreau:
1.70

Gaudreau P/60 with Monahan:
3.71
Without Monahan:
3.10

Over his entire career, Monahan's 5v5 P/60 plummets from 2.23 with Gaudreau (~2,880 mins) to 1.47 without him (~2,170 mins)

Ok? Is any reasonable person really arguing that gaudreau doesnt pad monahan's stats? Gaudreau could take any decent center/winger and give them a chance at 25-30 goals, like he did with ferland. He literally gives Monahan 2-3 tap-ins a month. Monahan is the most useless player when hes not scoring, hes not physical, barely has any speed and he's lost all of his playmaking skills from his rookie year. Anyone who has watched flames games this year knows that when monahan's not scoring hes basically a third-liner. But Monahan does get close to 30 every year which is no easy feat, so you take what you can get.
 
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Hischier and Hughes

“I love to hockey”
Jan 28, 2018
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John Gaudreau

Second in the league in points.

I like Hall (and I like that I can finally say that now that he's traded) but between the two one constantly outproduces the other
One constantly had a center with chemistry. One constantly plays far less defense than the other and barely outproduces for the amount of O-time he gets.

Hall is the better player but is underrated. Guy had an 80-point season with RNH...
 

Hischier and Hughes

“I love to hockey”
Jan 28, 2018
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Also Taylor Hall is an MVP candidate because the discrepancy between him and the next top scorer is so far from the next best in the league - clearly has less to work with this season.
 

WhiskeyYerTheDevils

yer leadin me astray
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Also Taylor Hall is an MVP candidate because the discrepancy between him and the next top scorer is so far from the next best in the league - clearly has less to work with this season.

All that tells you is that he doesn't significantly impact the production of his linemates. Hall is not a terribly inclusive player, he relies a lot on scoring off the rush and doesn't create off the cycle too much, which will typically inflate point totals relative to linemates when you are the first guy up the ice.

Look at Hischier - he's a first overall pick on pace for 53 points, more or less where you'd expect him to be.

I already addressed this earlier:
The fact that he has such a large gap on those two in no way implies that he is boosting their production. If anything its just the opposite. I mean Hischier and Bratt are only on pace for 48-49 points. That's exactly where you would expect a 1st overall pick to be, and Bratt is just a beast of a player.

Hischier actually has a better P/60 at ES without Hall than with Hall. Monahan and Ferland's numbers fall off a cliff without Gaudreau.

Hall has been on the ice for only 21 of Bratt's 33 points and 23 of Hischier's 34 points (64% and 68% respectively)
Gaudreau has been on the ice for 48 of Monahan's 50 points (96%) and 29 of Ferland's 34 points (85%)

Make sense?

One constantly had a center with chemistry. One constantly plays far less defense than the other and barely outproduces for the amount of O-time he gets.

Hall is the better player but is underrated. Guy had an 80-point season with RNH...

Gaudreau is a significantly better two way player than Hall. Like, it's not even close. This year, Hall has cut out a lot of the brain fart plays he would typically make, but he's still completely lost defensively. He literally just follows the puck around the zone, has zero concept of playing his position.
 

Mobiandi

Registered User
Jan 17, 2015
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lol Gaudreau could win the Art Ross twice and would still get no respect on this board.
Let's be honest. This board doesn't watch Gaudreau more than once or twice a year. People probably still think he can't score on the road
 

Ashasx

Registered User
Jun 30, 2010
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No fine as in bubble play-off team like they are now.

You are a Flames fan and your hate for Gaudreau is completely bewildering. This must be a painful season for you.

The Flames would be no worse off without Gaudreau? Are you serious?
 
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Snakepit

Registered User
Nov 19, 2013
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Wait so first people say Monahan would suck without Gaudreau and now people are saying Gaudreau would suck without Monahan?

Is this the new narrative? They're only good with each other?

Laughable
 

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