Hall of Fame talents who faded into oblivion

[GreatGonzo]

Not sure about HOF talent, but I always thought Bobby Ryan was going to be a stud. He was already very skilled in my eyes, he had scored 30+ goals in his and after his second and third season while being a runner up for the Calder, and after his 2011 season, where he had 71 points and 34 goals, I thought he was only going to continue to excel.

His goal scoring didn’t completely fall off right away, but his point totals just continued to dip after his trade and especially following various injuries.

 

[McGuillicuddy]

That's not exactly correct.

Theodore had some disappointing seasons, especially after the 2002 Hart Trophy, but he was instrumental to helping lead the Washington Capitals to their best seasons ever in 2008-10. In 2011-12, Theodore helped backstop the Florida Panthers in claiming the Southeast Division title.

All true, but I don't think those things happened because Jose was providing elite goaltending. He was serviceable but he wasn't getting any Vezina or HOF consideration, which is what this thread is about. Now we all know that Save % is an imperfect stat, but nonetheless his best season by this metric outside his 2 best years in Montreal was 2011-12 in Florida where his 0.917 was just barely above the league average. Which to be fair is pretty darned good for a 35 year old.

 

[Spirit of 67]

If the date is somewhere in 2007, you probably have both Heatley and Spezza as very-likely Hall of Famers in the future, seeing as Heatley just scored 50 goals+100 points for two straight seasons, aged only 26.

Um, no.

 

[95Tal]

Charlie Simmer had 49 goals in 50 games (hat trick in game 50 to get to 49) the same year that Bossy scored 50 in 50.

'79-80 and '80-81 were very impressive; 101 pts. in 64 games (56-45-101) and 105 pts. in 65 games (56-49-105) respectively. Playing with Dionne didn't hurt, of course. Ended up with 711 pts. in 712 games, so not exactly a fade into oblivion, but more a case of what might have been...

 

[ted2019]

Not sure about HOF talent, but I always thought Bobby Ryan was going to be a stud. He was already very skilled in my eyes, he had scored 30+ goals in his and after his second and third season while being a runner up for the Calder, and after his 2011 season, where he had 71 points and 34 goals, I thought he was only going to continue to excel.

His goal scoring didn’t completely fall off right away, but his point totals just continued to dip after his trade and especially following various injuries.

I think it's more about Ryan being lazy then anything else.

 

[ted2019]

If the date is somewhere in 2007, you probably have both Heatley and Spezza as very-likely Hall of Famers in the future, seeing as Heatley just scored 50 goals+100 points for two straight seasons, aged only 26.

Spezza produces at an insane pace during the same stretch (1.31 PPG) at only 24.

For some reason, both of them were basically irrelevant past 28 and if anyone on the Pizza Line is going in without a ticket, it's Alfredsson by far.

Kovalev is an interesting case as well.. watch highlights of him and you'd swear he's a first-ballot HOFer.

Heatley was off to a good start, but a very likely HOF'er? I doubt it. Nothing about Spezza's stats screamed HOF'er either.

 

[Jets4Life]

All true, but I don't think those things happened because Jose was providing elite goaltending. He was serviceable but he wasn't getting any Vezina or HOF consideration, which is what this thread is about. Now we all know that Save % is an imperfect stat, but nonetheless his best season by this metric outside his 2 best years in Montreal was 2011-12 in Florida where his 0.917 was just barely above the league average. Which to be fair is pretty darned good for a 35 year old.

I agree.

I was just sticking to topic. The adore never faded into oblivion

 

[Jets4Life]

Not sure about HOF talent, but I always thought Bobby Ryan was going to be a stud. He was already very skilled in my eyes, he had scored 30+ goals in his and after his second and third season while being a runner up for the Calder, and after his 2011 season, where he had 71 points and 34 goals, I thought he was only going to continue to excel.

His goal scoring didn’t completely fall off right away, but his point totals just continued to dip after his trade and especially following various injuries.

Gonzo.

Long time no chat. How are you

 

[GreatGonzo]

Gonzo.

Long time no chat. How are you

How the hell are you? It’s the same on my end man.

 

[trentmccleary]

Heatley was off to a good start, but a very likely HOF'er? I doubt it. Nothing about Spezza's stats screamed HOF'er either.

I think Spezza was tracking near Turgeon's career for maybe the first decade, but he hasn't held up as well. Turgeon being somewhere just under the line as it stands.

 

[a79krgm]

I would call Rick Kehoe a forgotten talent. Scored 55 goals in 1980-81. Helped out the Pens immensely in the late 70's.

 

[leeroggy]

Jonathan Cheechoo lost his career to injury after winning a Richard Trophy.

 

[leeroggy]

Charlie Simmer had 49 goals in 50 games (hat trick in game 50 to get to 49) the same year that Bossy scored 50 in 50.

'79-80 and '80-81 were very impressive; 101 pts. in 64 games (56-45-101) and 105 pts. in 65 games (56-49-105) respectively. Playing with Dionne didn't hurt, of course. Ended up with 711 pts. in 712 games, so not exactly a fade into oblivion, but more a case of what might have been...

And married quite possibly the hottest NHL wife of all time . . .

 

[whcanuck]

Bernie Nicholls. He had excellent numbers in the 80s with LA including that monster 70 goal year when Gretzky arrived. Once LA shipped him out, his numbers were very "ok" in the 90s. Nothing horrible, but only broke 30 goals one more time I think. Tony Amonte was a very good goal scorer with Chicago for about 6 years, then after he went to Philly and Calgary he didn't come close to those totals again.

 

[FerrisRox]

Don Murdoch, Barry Pederson - health, Michel Briere death in car accident, maybe Dan Blackburn training injury.

Calling Michel Briere a Hall of Fame talent is an enormous stretch.

 

[FerrisRox]

Turgeon might be in if his production hadn't dropped off as drastically as it did after his signing with DAL.

Turgeon's first season in Dallas was his fifteenth season in the NHL. What did you think was going to happen?

 

[Canadiens1958]

Calling Michel Briere a Hall of Fame talent is an enormous stretch.

Trailed Bobby Clarke by 2 points in Rookie Scoring. Better skater, skills.

 

[bobbyking]

He had one bad season...

He has a lot left to prove

 

[bobbyking]

Mogilny and Selanne were roughly the same age, and had roughly the same stat line in 1993, tying for first in goals. Selanne went on to have a long HHOF career, Mogilny was never the same.

Alex maybe the most overated player ever

 

[Vanzig]

Definitely one of THE Most Underrated Players who played a Complete Game Defensively and Offensively, Had a HOF Career until a Major Injury due to a Concussion by a cheap shot play that would be a suspension in today’s NHL was Flyers BRIAN PROPP.
Yes he was a quiet player but played the complete game, yes he went 0-5 in the Cup FINALS in his Career but he was on the wrong team at the worst time, LOL, by facing 3 Dynasties (ISLANDERS, OILERS, PENGUINS) I mean how do you beat those Teams when you aren’t playing with ANY Forwards who made the HOF when those teams each had 6 or More Hall Of Famers & we’re stacked.

I know some say well he didn’t win any Awards or Cups but so did a lot of guys & had it NOT been for a CHELIOS Cheap-Shot in the 1989 Playoffs (Which Brian was never the same player playing parts of 5 more seasons after the Concussion Hit) but at the time of the Hit Propp was Leading the 1989NHL Playoffs in POINTS with 14-6-20 in 15 Games But the cheap shot changed everything.

PROPP still had 1000+ Points in 1000 Regular Season Games (425-579-1004) and he is which is friggin incredible for the last 28 Years the HIGHEST SCORING LEFT WINGER IN NHL PLAYOFF HISTORY with (64-84-148).

Now their have been 2000+ Left Wingers in NHL History & Propp is #1 All Time, Plus the Playoffs is Hockey at its Highest Level of Play. I think the 5 Time All Star Who incredible enough who was a Junior star, NHL star, Won GOLD twice in International Tournaments and who Holds 6 NHL PLAYOFF RECORDS might be in the HOF today had he Not been Injured.

Some might agree and some might disagree but having watched Hockey for Decades & having 450+ Games on VHS/DVD-r I feel by watching the games with an unbiased opinion helps with my judgement. but that’s half the fun talking hockey with hockey buys like myself, CHEERS.

 

[Vanzig]

I'll go off the grid a bit for the old timers:

Blaine Stoughton
Dennis Maruk
Pierre Larouche
Mark Tardiff

When I had a few Beers with GUY LAFLEUR he told me that even though Scotty Bowman Hated PIERRE LAROUCHE he said that LAROUCHE was the Most SKILLED Player LAFLEUR ever saw on the Montreal Canadiens. Yes he didn’t like playing defensively but with the Hands that Pierre had LAFLEUR said who cares if u play defence or not. Plus Pierre LAROUCHE almost became the ONLY person in NHL HISTORY to Score 50+ Goals with 3 Different Teams, He had 50+ with Penguins, 50+ with Canadiens, and due to injury missing some games scored 48 with the Rangers, Unfortunately LAROUCHE got injured and Retired early at Age 31 and was a Point a Game player with almost 400 Goals and 800+ Points in 800 Games, It’s too bad Injuries held him back but that has happened to a lot of guys.

 

[GlitchMarner]

Turgeon's first season in Dallas was his fifteenth season in the NHL. What did you think was going to happen?

I never said I thought anything was going to happen. All I said was he might be in with even better longevity.

 

[The Panther]

I never said I thought anything was going to happen. All I said was he might be in with even better longevity.

This is the first time I've heard longevity used in an argument against Turgeon. When he started playing, Gretzky was still with Edmonton and Bossy had just retired, and 19 years later he got 46 points in 62 games, with 12 or 13 min. per game ice-time, when Crosby and Ovechkin were playing.

 

[The Panther]

Plus Pierre LAROUCHE almost became the ONLY person in NHL HISTORY to Score 50+ Goals with 3 Different Teams

Right, but that's kind of a double-edged sword. From the other way of thinking, it means that two teams wanted to get rid of a 50-goal scorer in his prime. There was probably a reason for that.

 

[The Panther]

Definitely one of THE Most Underrated Players who played a Complete Game Defensively and Offensively, Had a HOF Career until a Major Injury due to a Concussion by a cheap shot play that would be a suspension in today’s NHL was Flyers BRIAN PROPP.

Did the Chelios hit really impact Propp that much? His stats did go down a bit in 1989-90, but he was 30 by then, a not untypical age for forwards of his time to start slowing down a bit. The Flyers were also in a decline by then, so I don't think he was the only one whose stats suffered.

yes he went 0-5 in the Cup FINALS in his Career but he was on the wrong team at the worst time, LOL, by facing 3 Dynasties (ISLANDERS, OILERS, PENGUINS)

I don't blame Propp, of course, for his team's losing those series, but the question is more one of how did he perform in those series? I remember him being pretty good in the '87 Finals, but I wasn't aware of him in '85 (I was too young), and he didn't make any impression on me later on. (The Pens weren't a dynasty, btw.)

but at the time of the Hit Propp was Leading the 1989 NHL Playoffs in POINTS with 14-6-20 in 15 Games

That's not correct. Gretzky had 22 points in two rounds of playoffs in '89.

I think the 5 Time All Star Who incredible enough who was a Junior star, NHL star, Won GOLD twice in International Tournaments and who Holds 6 NHL PLAYOFF RECORDS might be in the HOF today had he Not been Injured.

I like Propp, but I think you might be over-stating the significance of the Chelios hit. Of course a concussion is serious, but Propp had 4 or 5 months, at least, to rest and recover after it. (This is assuming it was a fairly serious concussion -- I don't know how bad it actually was.) That hit may have had some lingering effect, but more likely Propp was just passing his prime years at the same time the Flyers were entering a decline.

As Propp is the classic 'borderline' kind of Hall-of-Fame Candidate, I think the question comes down to: Was he the kind of player who, besides his borderline Hall of Fame stats, could elevate a team towards victory? His teams' records in the Finals suggests not. (Note: Don't take this as a criticism of Propp -- the same applies to several of my own favorite players. Example: Bernie Nicholls.)