News Article: Hakan Andersson earned his reputation by finding late round gems for the Red Wings

[Claypool]

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[Unfriendly Ghost]

The past tense is appropriate here.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

He earned too much of a reputation. He was never "insert late round pick, create star".

He, like any scout, does great due diligence and sometimes it results in a home run, sometimes a dud. However, the Wings have gotten too much adequate to exceptional hockey out of his selections to really deride him.

 

[Frk It]

Couple thoughts

1) Threadworthy? Nice little video and all, but absolutely nothing new in that video.
2) They talk about how much they trust him, yet he hasn't been given a 1st round pick since 2000?
3) Same conversation will happen where people criticize him for not finding stars recently in rounds 2-7, while not understanding how ridiculously bad the odds are of finding stars in rounds 2-7. Or how ridiculous it was that he did it in back to back years while creating an entirely new core for this team for 10 years.

He earned too much of a reputation.

Disagree.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Couple thoughts

1) Threadworthy? Nice little video and all, but absolutely nothing new in that video.
2) They talk about how much they trust him, yet he hasn't been given a 1st round pick since 2000?
3) Same conversation will happen where people criticize him for not finding stars recently in rounds 2-7, while not understanding how ridiculously bad the odds are of finding stars in rounds 2-7. Or how ridiculous it was that he did it in back to back years while creating an entirely new core for this team for 10 years.

Agreed in that his ridiculous success created an impossible standard. I don't know that the first round pick situation is any reflection of trusting him or not. Holland was giving them away like candy for years. And it could just as easily overconfidence in Andersson's ability to find late round gems that made it easier to part with those first rounders.

I'm guessing this will be an unpopular opinion but I would count Ericsson as one of his successes as well. Obviously nowhere near Datsyuk and Zetterberg, but Andersson is the one who convinced Ericsson to switch to defense. With a 9th round, dead last pick in the 2002 draft the Wings took a converted forward and came away with a decent bottom pairing defenseman.

 

[njx9]

I'm guessing this will be an unpopular opinion but I would count Ericsson as one of his successes as well.

If it's unpopular, it's only because the team failed to find actual top pairing defensemen, forcing E to play above his ability. Dude would've been a great, and well-liked, middle-pairing/bottom-pairing player, if that's all he'd ever been asked to do. Fantastic pick/development work, all in all.

 

[Fynn]

He's pretty much a victim of his own success. He could fly under the radar and find the players no one else was looking for. But after you find a Datsyuk, Zetterberg, etc, when Hakan Andersson is at a game, every other scout follows. So we don't really know if he's not "finding" them so much as it is everyone else is onto players he shows interest in. Heard he "discovered" Alex Edler and Vancouver found out the Wings and Andersson were interested and took him first.

 

[Winger98]

If it's unpopular, it's only because the team failed to find actual top pairing defensemen, forcing E to play above his ability. Dude would've been a great, and well-liked, middle-pairing/bottom-pairing player, if that's all he'd ever been asked to do. Fantastic pick/development work, all in all.

Honestly, if his hips weren't an issue and he hadn't busted up his hand, I think he could hold down minutes on the top pair as strictly a defense-first guy. Would he be great at it? No, but I think he'd arguably be our best option for it.

 

[The Zermanator]

Couple thoughts

1) Threadworthy? Nice little video and all, but absolutely nothing new in that video.
2) They talk about how much they trust him, yet he hasn't been given a 1st round pick since 2000?
3) Same conversation will happen where people criticize him for not finding stars recently in rounds 2-7, while not understanding how ridiculously bad the odds are of finding stars in rounds 2-7. Or how ridiculous it was that he did it in back to back years while creating an entirely new core for this team for 10 years.

This is exactly right. You can't pick a player who's not on the board anymore.

Say there might be 1-3 stars in rounds 2-7 in any given draft, and that's if you're lucky. What if those players aren't playing in Sweden (and wherever else he scouts, if anywhere)? How exactly is he supposed to pick a star?

 

[SpookyTsuki]

He hasn’t gotten any stars. But he’s got a couple nyquists/tatars In the last decade. Which is good for late round picks. He’s getting good supporting cast. Holland and the North American scouts haven’t picked superstars

 

[Redder Winger]

Honestly, if his hips weren't an issue and he hadn't busted up his hand, I think he could hold down minutes on the top pair as strictly a defense-first guy. Would he be great at it? No, but I think he'd arguably be our best option for it.

I think you've got Ericsson all wrong. He was never good as a defensive defenseman. People assume because of his size that he plays that game.

Ericsson's strength was his shot. His breakout passing. His skating - especially for his size. And some offensive vision.

In the defensive zone, he's always been fairly clueless about positioning. He's always been a horrible shot blocker for someone in his role. He;s never been much of a netfront presense or good worker on the boards.

On the other hand, his offensive raw skills are good.
The problem his that he takes to long to shoot. For every great breakout pass he coughs up a puck in his own zone.

Ericsson has been a disappointment since 9-10.
He had a great year in the AHL (10-24-34) in 07-08.
In 08-09 he plays a regular shift as the Wings go to the finals and he looks fantastic.
He went 4-4-8 in 22 games.
For reference
Lidstrom went 4-12-16, Rafalski went 3-9-12, Kronwall went 2-7-9, Stuart went 3-6-9.

But the next year, Ericsson was awful. (4-9-13 -15). He wasn't much better the next year either.
To this day he's never put up more than 15 points in the regular season (Though he did have 13 in 45 games during the lockout season).

Big E, a lot like Smith, just never developed. In fact, like Smith, he regressed.
Here's hoping Dekeyser isn't the next chapter in that book.

 

[Redder Winger]

This is exactly right. You can't pick a player who's not on the board anymore.

Say there might be 1-3 stars in rounds 2-7 in any given draft, and that's if you're lucky. What if those players aren't playing in Sweden (and wherever else he scouts, if anywhere)? How exactly is he supposed to pick a star?

You can't criticize the results of Detroit's drafting beyond round 1.
Since Holland became GM

Round 1 Fischer Kronwall Kindl Smith Sheahan Mantha Larkin
Round 2 Kopecky Fleischmann Hudler Howard Abdelkader Matthias Tatar Jarnkrok Ouellet Jurco
Round 3 Filppula Franzen Andersson Janmark
Round 4 Quincey Nyquist Athanasiou
Round 5 Helm Mrazek
Round 6 Datsyuk
Round 7 Zetterberg Meech Marchenko
Round 8
Round 9 Ericsson

-----------
This team went from Kronwall (2000) to Mantha (2013) without a good, successful first round pick. And truthfully, Mantha and Larkin still have to carry through for awhile.

The headscratching first rounders are the Sheahans. And I hope the Rasmussen pick doesn't turn out the same.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

I think you've got Ericsson all wrong. He was never good as a defensive defenseman. People assume because of his size that he plays that game.

Ericsson's strength was his shot. His breakout passing. His skating - especially for his size. And some offensive vision.

In the defensive zone, he's always been fairly clueless about positioning. He's always been a horrible shot blocker for someone in his role. He;s never been much of a netfront presense or good worker on the boards.

On the other hand, his offensive raw skills are good.
The problem his that he takes to long to shoot. For every great breakout pass he coughs up a puck in his own zone.

Ericsson has been a disappointment since 9-10.
He had a great year in the AHL (10-24-34) in 07-08.
In 08-09 he plays a regular shift as the Wings go to the finals and he looks fantastic.
He went 4-4-8 in 22 games.
For reference
Lidstrom went 4-12-16, Rafalski went 3-9-12, Kronwall went 2-7-9, Stuart went 3-6-9.

But the next year, Ericsson was awful. (4-9-13 -15). He wasn't much better the next year either.
To this day he's never put up more than 15 points in the regular season (Though he did have 13 in 45 games during the lockout season).

Big E, a lot like Smith, just never developed. In fact, like Smith, he regressed.
Here's hoping Dekeyser isn't the next chapter in that book.

Honestly I think you've got Ericsson all wrong.

I know people raved about his booming shot in the AHL skills competition but his windup takes a half an hour. It was never going to be effective in the NHL.

I agree about his breakout pass. It's good for a defenseive d-man. His skating is decent for a big man. As for net front presence I'd like him to be more Hatcher-esque but for many years now he's been one of the stronger net front presence the Wings have had.

But he is a forward who converted to defenseman at 19 years old and taken dead last in the draft. Fans over-hyped him because he looked good playing next to Lidstrom in the playoffs. The reality is I could play next to Lidstrom and probably look like a legit #2 D-man (see: Ian White).

Even in 2009 he was used on the PK and not on the PP. At his best the hope was for a defensive d-man with size and physical play who also had a good first pass.

When a scout like Hakaan Andersson tells you as a 19 year old to switch to defense, it's probably not because you've got tremendous offensive skills.

 

[Redder Winger]

Honestly I think you've got Ericsson all wrong.

I know people raved about his booming shot in the AHL skills competition but his windup takes a half an hour. It was never going to be effective in the NHL.

I agree about his breakout pass. It's good for a defenseive d-man. His skating is decent for a big man. As for net front presence I'd like him to be more Hatcher-esque but for many years now he's been one of the stronger net front presence the Wings have had.

But he is a forward who converted to defenseman at 19 years old and taken dead last in the draft. Fans over-hyped him because he looked good playing next to Lidstrom in the playoffs. The reality is I could play next to Lidstrom and probably look like a legit #2 D-man (see: Ian White).

Even in 2009 he was used on the PK and not on the PP. At his best the hope was for a defensive d-man with size and physical play who also had a good first pass.

When a scout like Hakaan Andersson tells you as a 19 year old to switch to defense, it's probably not because you've got tremendous offensive skills.

His passing and skating are the only things that have ever impressed me.
He plays defense like someone who learned the position at 18.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

His passing and skating are the only things that have ever impressed me.
He plays defense like someone who learned the position at 18.

That's sort of my point. He's had to learn gap control and defensive positioning for the first time at the pro level.

Unless you're some kind of savant you're probably not going to be a top pairing guy in the NHL.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

His passing and skating are the only things that have ever impressed me.
He plays defense like someone who learned the position at 18.

His passing shouldn't impress anyone, even before the wrist injury. He has always been slow to make decisions and has never moved the puck well, either in transition or in the offensive zone. I don't think he has ever read the play particularly well transitioning from defense to offense. Some players just know where there teammates are. The big guy isn't one of them.

Now he has always had a hard heavy shot (something we don't see enough of these days because you need to open your own shooting lanes in today's NHL) and has always been a underrated transporter of the puck.

Anyways, being big, long and mobile goes a long way in hockey. Ericsson is proof of that. Sadly, as others have pointed out he is neither fish nor fowl as a defensemen,

 

[Winger98]

It wasn't just a wrist injury, he shattered a finger and had tendon damage. It's something I"m not sure has ever quit affecting his play.

That's sort of my point. He's had to learn gap control and defensive positioning for the first time at the pro level.

Unless you're some kind of savant you're probably not going to be a top pairing guy in the NHL.

I think he's being sold a bit short still. He looked good with Lids and Kronwall, and was at least a solid top4 guy until he got dinged up. It's not like Dekeyser who seems to have just stagnated entirely and not grown his game at all, Ericsson was at worst reliable defensively. He'd pin guys to the board, he'd win his puck battles, and he was one of the few (only?) D on the squad who could and would muscle guys around the net.

Ericsson was a better player than he's being credited.

 

[Redder Winger]

His passing shouldn't impress anyone, even before the wrist injury. He has always been slow to make decisions and has never moved the puck well, either in transition or in the offensive zone. I don't think he has ever read the play particularly well transitioning from defense to offense. Some players just know where there teammates are. The big guy isn't one of them.

Now he has always had a hard heavy shot (something we don't see enough of these days because you need to open your own shooting lanes in today's NHL) and has always been a underrated transporter of the puck.

Anyways, being big, long and mobile goes a long way in hockey. Ericsson is proof of that. Sadly, as others have pointed out he is neither fish nor fowl as a defensemen,

Well, I'm impressed with defenseman who can hit guys in stride on breakaways.
And Ericsson can.
The problem, as I said, is that he's more likely to cough it up in his own zone. His decision making and execution just doesn't cut it.

 

[Redder Winger]

Ericsson was a better player than he's being credited.

When?
The AHL.
The 09 playoffs.
Maybe the lockout season?
Other than he's been mediocre and never worth more than $2M/Y

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

When?
The AHL.
The 09 playoffs.
Maybe the lockout season?
Other than he's been mediocre and never worth more than $2M/Y

You just confirmed Winger's statement. He's definitely been better than you're crediting him.

 

[njx9]

Honestly, if his hips weren't an issue and he hadn't busted up his hand, I think he could hold down minutes on the top pair as strictly a defense-first guy. Would he be great at it? No, but I think he'd arguably be our best option for it.

Sure, but I think that still says more about our lack of talent than his ability.

Which I don't say to discount his ability, as I said, I think fans would love him if he'd never been stuck on/stapled to the top pair. But the inadequacies in his game, especially after injury, are hard to hide when you have to take on the most/hardest minutes against the toughest players.

It's like, how many people really have legit complaints about his play last year into this year? He seems to be, at worst, invisible. Which is a heck of a trait for any of our guys. And I think it's entirely because he's finally playing against appropriate competition.

 

[Redder Winger]

You just confirmed Winger's statement. He's definitely been better than you're crediting him.

Explain yourself.

 

[Redder Winger]

Sure, but I think that still says more about our lack of talent than his ability.

Which I don't say to discount his ability, as I said, I think fans would love him if he'd never been stuck on/stapled to the top pair. But the inadequacies in his game, especially after injury, are hard to hide when you have to take on the most/hardest minutes against the toughest players.

It's like, how many people really have legit complaints about his play last year into this year? He seems to be, at worst, invisible. Which is a heck of a trait for any of our guys. And I think it's entirely because he's finally playing against appropriate competition.

Ericsson has made several blunders this year that have cost this team points.

 

[Winger98]

Sure, but I think that still says more about our lack of talent than his ability.

Which I don't say to discount his ability, as I said, I think fans would love him if he'd never been stuck on/stapled to the top pair. But the inadequacies in his game, especially after injury, are hard to hide when you have to take on the most/hardest minutes against the toughest players.

It's like, how many people really have legit complaints about his play last year into this year? He seems to be, at worst, invisible. Which is a heck of a trait for any of our guys. And I think it's entirely because he's finally playing against appropriate competition.

Fair enough.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Explain yourself.

You listed the only time Ericsson has been better than credited as the AHL, the 09 playoffs, and maybe the lockout season. To me that's a perfect example of what Winger posted.

Ericsson has certainly been good more times than just those you listed, in spite of him being the fans' whipping boy for much of his tenure with the Wings. The season after his shattered finger and the one where his mom was being treated for cancer were definite lowpoints but he's been a solid dman a lot of the time for the Wings. He's one of the few who can actually handle big forwards in front of the crease, and he's important on the PK. He's still here while Smith and Kindl are gone yet somehow he seemed to get the most grief of the three.

The Wings took what is as throwaway pick as you can possibly have and turned it into a regular roster defenseman.

The biggest issues with Ericsson are his hip injury and that once Lidstrom, Rafalski and Stuart were gone he's been playing more minutes than he should because the blueline is painfully thin.