Confirmed with Link: Habs resign Jordan Weal to 2yr 2.8 million deal

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Recently he's gotten Mete, Brook, Ikonen, Romanov, Ylonen, Olofssen, etc.. Instead of the DLR's, Crisps, and Lernouts when he was going for big bodies.

Mete aside, those other prospects have done well and showed promise, but have still showed the same amount that the others have. De la Rose might be able to carve out a 4th line/13th forward career for himself. Not ideal, but we're still waiting to see what the others will do, if anything at all.

 

[26Mats]

Why? We've produced an elite (top 5 in the NHL) five on five offense by employing a quick and tireless group of forwards that generates turnovers and hits you off the rush. Byron was one of the key cogs in this system. You're willing to get rid of him, in order to add unspecified "size". Are we changing our playing philosophy again, all of the sudden?

Theee points:

1. I want a player just as good or better than Byron signed as a UFA. Look at the list. There are many.

2. I want to sign the ufa and then i see byron as the player that makes most sense to move, as his trade value should be at least a 2nd. I want 5o stock up on 1sts and 2nds. So it's not that i want to get a player of equal impact as Byron. Ot' that i want a player of at least equal impact, PLUS a 2nd, to keep stock piling 1sts and 2nds. I don't want to just trade him to get rid of him for more of the same.

3. If we sign a good UFA, who loses their spot?

 

[26Mats]

"Making room" is such a dumb reason to trade someone.

If a player is better than Byron, he'll win his roster spot. If the player is not better than Byron, why trade Byron in order to play the guy in a role he isn't ready / equipped for?

The premise of the previous post is that we're able to sign a good ufa...

 

[Runner77]

I don't see how number of hits is an indication of physical intimidation or playing a style of play that can be described as "heavy and hard to face".
I am sure it's part of the conversation but that alone can't be extrapolated by itself to form an opinion.

It's just like using shots as a means of showing an advantage. Shots isn't only about quality shots or scoring chances. Same with hits -- which can be both a simple contact between players and a more physical play.

 

[Runner77]

"Making room" is such a dumb reason to trade someone.

If a player is better than Byron, he'll win his roster spot. If the player is not better than Byron, why trade Byron in order to play the guy in a role he isn't ready / equipped for?

I would think a reasonable approach is simply to trade from excess strength. And it's been one of the sore spots with the way the Habs have been handled in the Bergevin regime -- since they haven't put themselves on a clear building path from the beginning of his tenure, the org. has never been able to pile quality disposable organizational depth in sufficient numbers, until maybe the last 1 or 2 years.

That is the optimal currency from which deals should be made and organizational needs will be met.

 

[HabsDood]

So you put Suzuki in and take Danault or Drouin out?

Not Danault, Drouin, we'll see. There's always that injured guy too. Let's see what happens with Suzuki 1st. It's all speculations.

 

[scrubadam]

Didn't the habs record tank without Byron in the line up?

 

[26Mats]

Didn't the habs record tank without Byron in the line up?

That stat is skewed. A lot of the time Byron was out Armia or another top 9 player was also out. I said it at the time: we had 10 top 9 forwards. Our depth was a key, especially given that our top 6 aren't elite. But, when two top 9 forwards are out, we only have 8, and still not elite top 6. So, when 1 top 9 forward is out, it's not the end of the world. But when two are it's a big problem. We had Agostino in the top 9.

So, the eye test told me it was really having 2 top 9 forwards out that made our record tank, but we were ok with only 1 out.

But I'd like to see a stat of our record without Byron, when we had no other top 9 forwards injured, to confirm this. And, now that we have Weal and Poehling, we may have the needed surplus to sustain 2 or more injuries. An argument can be made that we have 12 top 9 forwards.

So, if we sign a big UFA, who goes out of the top 9 or top 12?

 

[montreal]

Why? We've produced an elite (top 5 in the NHL) five on five offense by employing a quick and tireless group of forwards that generates turnovers and hits you off the rush. Byron was one of the key cogs in this system. You're willing to get rid of him, in order to add unspecified "size". Are we changing our playing philosophy again, all of the sudden?

I didn't see that many games this year but there were times I noticed when 3 in 4, etc... that they were wore out by the last game. I don't know what the answer is but it's tough to compete for 82 games in the NHL when you are such a small team. Perhaps there are ways to find a little more balance, although having someone like Poehling when he's ready, as he's going to play in the NHL full time at some point baring a Chipchura like injury that impacts him greatly. He will bring size and speed. Trading Leks or others over time depending on the return would also help.

 

[tnq]

By far better deal than Peca contract

 

[scrubadam]

That stat is skewed. A lot of the time Byron was out Armia or another top 9 player was also out. I said it at the time: we had 10 top 9 forwards. Our depth was a key, especially given that our top 6 aren't elite. But, when two top 9 forwards are out, we only have 8, and still not elite top 6. So, when 1 top 9 forward is out, it's not the end of the world. But when two are it's a big problem. We had Agostino in the top 9.

So, the eye test told me it was really having 2 top 9 forwards out that made our record tank, but we were ok with only 1 out.

But I'd like to see a stat of our record without Byron, when we had no other top 9 forwards injured, to confirm this. And, now that we have Weal and Poehling, we may have the needed surplus to sustain 2 or more injuries. An argument can be made that we have 12 top 9 forwards.

So, if we sign a big UFA, who goes out of the top 9 or top 12?

I remember them mentioning on a broadcast once, and with Byron the team was above .500 by a good amount. Just don't have the numbers on hand.

But I agree this team was built on its depth and taking 1 or 2 pieces out(like Shaw+Armia, or Shaw+Byron) threw the team out of whack.

As far as taking anyone out, I don't worry about that. The team will suffer injuries, suspensions etc... Better to have too many players than too few.

I just wouldn't trade Byron he is a great player for the habs that does it all and has speed to burn. I also don't think we will be getting any top UFA, at best the team probably lands Dzingle.

 

[26Mats]

I remember them mentioning on a broadcast once, and with Byron the team was above .500 by a good amount. Just don't have the numbers on hand.

But I agree this team was built on its depth and taking 1 or 2 pieces out(like Shaw+Armia, or Shaw+Byron) threw the team out of whack.

As far as taking anyone out, I don't worry about that. The team will suffer injuries, suspensions etc... Better to have too many players than too few.

I just wouldn't trade Byron he is a great player for the habs that does it all and has speed to burn. I also don't think we will be getting any top UFA, at best the team probably lands Dzingle.

Yes, this whole series of posts was based on the hypothetical: if we are able to get a top UFA, who loses their spot?

I'm also not comfortable sitting Weal, Lehkonen, or Armia (our present 10th, 11th, and 12th forwards on the depth chart imo) in the press box for long periods. I don't think it's fair to them. If we sign a top UFA and Poehling is NHL ready, I'd trade a vet for a draft pick - and Byron, imo makes more sense to trade than Shaw, etc...

 

[scrubadam]

Yes, this whole series of posts was based on the hypothetical: if we are able to get a top UFA, who loses their spot?

I'm also not comfortable sitting Weal, Lehkonen, or Armia (our present 10th, 11th, and 12th forwards on the depth chart imo) in the press box for long periods. I don't think it's fair to them. If we sign a top UFA and Poehling is NHL ready, I'd trade a vet for a draft pick - and Byron, imo makes more sense to trade than Shaw, etc...

At the end of the day having to many players is a better problem then having to few.

If the Habs land a Panarian then I look at moving a player. I move Lek/Armia before Byron. Its a tough choice between Byron or Shaw, but I might lead more towards Shaw just due to his injury history. Not sure if we will ever get 82 games out of him.

Alas I think the Habs will have to rely on their depth next year and they are going to need to have players who can jump in and out due to the 10-15 game injuries guys will have. The team won't be able to afford losing two guys at the same time because that will mess with rolling 4 lines.

 

[UVMCats]

Great signing. Very happy

 

[Dominator13]

Domi
Danault
Kotkaniemi
Weal

Extra: Thompson

No no.

Domi-Duschene-Shaw
Drouin-KK-Armia/Suzuki
Tatar-Danault-Gallagher
Byron-Poehling-Weal.

I can feel it.

 

[thewall]

I think Bergevin thought he'd get the Weal type of player with Peca. Unfortunattly it wasnt the case but Weal was a nice surprise.

 

[26Mats]

I think Bergevin thought he'd get the Weal type of player with Peca. Unfortunattly it wasnt the case but Weal was a nice surprise.

I think he's the real deal. A very useful player that could surprise from the 4th and sometimes 3rd line. I think a Poehling-Weal duo could be quite productive.

I look forward to seeing what he can do when in the lineup for a full season.

 

[26Mats]

No no.

Domi-Duschene-Shaw
Drouin-KK-Armia/Suzuki
Tatar-Danault-Gallagher
Byron-Poehling-Weal.

I can feel it.

So Duchene takes Lehkonen's spot. What do you think Lehkonen would fetch in a trade?

 

[Dominator13]

So Duchene takes Lehkonen's spot. What do you think Lehkonen would fetch in a trade?

Good bait for a trade up at the draft.

 

[Habssince89]

I think Weal and Byron could form a good pair of wings for KK. Both are smart and can learn to anticipate KK's passing ability. I think both Weal and KK are good linemates for Byron as they both can probably spring him on breakaways pretty consistently.

Lehkonen and Armia lack finish and they would be elite 4th liners, If Thompson becomes the 13th forward, another C could change the fourth line's style.

[Without Additions]

Drouin-Domi-Shaw
Tatar-Danault-Gallagher
Byron-Kotkaniemi-Weal
Lehkonen-Thompson-Armia

 

[26Mats]

I think Weal and Byron could form a good pair of wings for KK. Both are smart and can learn to anticipate KK's passing ability. I think both Weal and KK are good linemates for Byron as they both can probably spring him on breakaways pretty consistently.

Lehkonen and Armia lack finish and they would be elite 4th liners, If Thompson becomes the 13th forward, another C could change the fourth line's style.

[Without Additions]

Drouin-Domi-Shaw
Tatar-Danault-Gallagher
Byron-Kotkaniemi-Weal
Lehkonen-Thompson-Armia

If Poehling is ready, Thompson moves to 13th forward and Poehling or Weal could be the 4c.

I also think Weal would be good on KK's wing - much better than Armia. Perhaps Byron is the other winger, or perhaps Drouin. Lehkonen is also a good 4th liner imo. But he was doing well with Domi and Shaw. That may be able to continue.

Anyways it will be interesting to wait and see if there are any additions during free agency and then re-assess the puzzle... And then we have to see if Suzuki makes it impossible to cut him at camp. In his mind, that's what's going to happen.

 

[26Mats]

Even thou we have other small bottom six pkayers, Weal's advantage over guys like Byron, Lehkonen and perhaps Shaw could be that he can play center. We'll see if he can be as or more productive as they are. It's possible. This year should be his chance to show it. Plus he's got the grit. It's a good package for a 4th liner who can step up in the lineup.

 

[S Bah]

Weal has become a quality, versatile two way forward that has the added plus of being a RHC. ( Being good at faceoffs, a capable playmaker, while dependable defensively.) Good signing IMHO.