Pre-Game Talk: Habs @ Rangers - tonight at 7.

[Tyson]

Can't call up a center...must he a cap issue

 

[Tyson]

Which has nothing to do with their rebuild. Their #1 defenseman forced the Jets to trade him on the cheap to the rangers or he'd not play for the team and they got a stud elite winger in free agency who wanted to play for the rangers. THAT is why they're playing well. Their rebuild didn't lead them there, they were mostly lucky.

Grasping at straws aren't you? They have tons of good young players sprinkled with some UFA signings and a trade or two...is that not rebuilding?

 

[Tyson]

The way things are going, the Leafs could get a better draft pick, and that's scary. They cannot let this happen, Pittsburgh knew how to tank for Sid and Malkin, its the only way out of this mess in Montreal.

Doesn't matter who you draft if you can't develop them...was it really necessary to bring Primeau up already? There were other options

 

[LaP]

This is the biggest problem with Bergevin/Molson for sure. They have been dealt a poker hand this year where they are chasing the straight and even if we get that straight, we are up against a Full House or Royal Flush. Fold the hand for this year please. Lets go after the best pick we can get and play the kids more. Call up Alzner, Play Lindgren more, Keep Drouin and Kotkaniemi out for as long as we can.

There are lots of things we can do where we turn the pressure to win dial down and let our fan base enjoy watching our youth (win or lose) and our management can evaluate them with more ice time.

It's opportunity to test our youth while we try to pick in the top 10 again. Come on man! You can do it Molson. We will support you if you make the right move... lots of empty seats in the Bell centers last night! . If you continue to chase the straight, you won't fool our fan base and it might get worse for your pocket of money

Can't agree more. MB should be actively shopping Tatar and Petry. Not that i hate the players or think they can't be useful (even though i'm not a fan of Tatar). But both of them must be extended at the end of next season and considering their age and career path (both will be on the wrong side of 30 at the end of next season) i highly doubt the contracts they'll ask are ones we should sign. Sell high and buy low.

I would listen to offer for other vets too just in case someone is willing to pay a king's ransom. But obviously can't trade all of them so the focus should be on Tatar and Petry. Go get some picks or young players. Don't take the chance any of the two hits a wall or gets injured next season.

 

[S Bah]

I tried the hot-dogs last night and they are the same cheap hot-dogs they had before. Didnt see any difference.

If people were aware of the ingredients in hotdogs, most would be spewing even though it has been fifteen years or more since I ate one. Not top drawer meat Lips and the other end plus tails etc. no yum yum in those. Zero waste due to making hotdogs with the spare parts!!! LOL Not talking Schwartz's Montreal smoked beef here.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Period! That's a pretty solid argument

Pretty sure you didn't read it, you replied really quickly.

How about all those mediocrity records? Don't they look the same?


Yeah i'll do just that, say you don't get it, here's another reason why: teams have more talent today than 20 years ago because before adding Vegas, we spent 15 years without an expansion which hadn't happened since the first expansion. This filled the league with more talent, but also because recruitment and development also took a major upward turn in the last 20 years. All of this has made the league more competitive. Even the worst of teams have good talent on them. It takes more talent intake today to upgrade a team than it did back then.

I feel much more comfortable with our future potential today vs when Houle was GM. It took Savard and Gainey years to recover from his mess. If Bergevin is gone today, we still have a bright future and the new guy inherits more than Savard!

Keep trying

 

[Runner77]

If people were aware of the ingredients in hotdogs, most would be spewing even though it has been fifteen years or more since I ate one. Not top drawer meat Lips and the other end plus tails etc. no yum yum in those. Zero waste due to making hotdogs with the spare parts!!! LOL Not talking Schwartz's Montreal smoked beef here.

Animal parts are used in most hot dogs, and may include skin, lips, pig snouts, organs, fat, and other parts of animal bodies.

Costco hotdogs: beef, water, dextrose, salt, spices, sodium lactate, garlic, sodium diacetate, sodium erythorbate, paprika and sodium nitrite.

Fan-tas-tic.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I was thinking last night about this strategy when we need a goal late in the 3rd... What about using Chiarot up front on some shifts? He's a physical beast and I bet he causes havoc... where it frees up space for a guy like Suzuki

 

[Pat Riot]

If people were aware of the ingredients in hotdogs, most would be spewing even though it has been fifteen years or more since I ate one. Not top drawer meat Lips and the other end plus tails etc. no yum yum in those. Zero waste due to making hotdogs with the spare parts!!! LOL Not talking Schwartz's Montreal smoked beef here.

Good for you

 

[peate]

If people were aware of the ingredients in hotdogs, most would be spewing even though it has been fifteen years or more since I ate one. Not top drawer meat Lips and the other end plus tails etc. no yum yum in those. Zero waste due to making hotdogs with the spare parts!!! LOL Not talking Schwartz's Montreal smoked beef here.

Two, all dressed.

 

[BLONG7]

I think Habs are back to Rejean Houle era.

Bergevin is making Houle look good.

 

[HBDay]

Animal parts are used in most hot dogs, and may include skin, lips, pig snouts, organs, fat, and other parts of animal bodies.

Costco hotdogs: beef, water, dextrose, salt, spices, sodium lactate, garlic, sodium diacetate, sodium erythorbate, paprika and sodium nitrite.

Fan-tas-tic.

Yes, and in those ingredients, replace the word beef with cow, gives a better visual of whats in it. Beef evokes images of red meat and i can assure you they arent using loin to make hot dogs.

 

[The Real Timo]

Bergevin is making Houle look good.

That;s just second-guessing

 

[bobholly39]

Good news fellow Hab fans. Tonight starts Carey Price's walk to the 2020 Hart trophy.

4-0 Montreal.

 

[The Real Timo]

I think they are pretty comparable according to this... end result is the same - useless teams built by both.

https://thehockeywriters.com/canadiens-gm-showdown-bergevin-vs-houle/

 

[BLONG7]

That;s just second-guessing

According to the results...................it's pretty bang on!! lol

But wait, look at da Blues last season!! If we make da playoff, who knows what can appen!!

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

I feel much more comfortable with our future potential today vs when Houle was GM. It took Savard and Gainey years to recover from his mess. If Bergevin is gone today, we still have a bright future and the new guy inherits more than Savard!

Keep trying

You don't know this. How's Brook doing lately? How about Poehling? KK's a mess so far this year. Caufield is still up in the air. Fleury might be bottom 6 when all is said and done.

You expect too much potential. I remember how Lekhonen was touted the same way, by me included, and rightfully so as he too had showed a lot of promise (beat Alfredsson's playoff goal record as an 18yold), just like Peelman, Brook showed promise. There's a problem in developmemt in Montreal, especially offensive development.

Romanov might become very good, but even today, we know he is unlikely to be as good as Markov.

I think you either forget or are unaware of how good Markov was when he came in. We see Suz is doing really good so far, but it's not as good.

Caufield, KK, Peel, Suz, Brook, Romanov and whoever else, how many will get close to Markov's impact? As good as Ribiero was? Will Primeau be as good as at least Theodore?

I think you clearly lack perspective of how it was back then as there are a lot of parallels. We had many young promising players when Houle left; Markov was 20, Theodore was 24, Souray 24, Zubrus 22, Ribeiro 20, Ryder 20, Bouillon 25.

And that's without the other prospects who didn't pan out like Hossa 19, Deslile 23, Asham 22, (Matt) Higgins 23, Chouinard 20...

And just several months after he left, we added Komisarek as a draftee, and Bulis 22 and Zednik 24 for Zubrus and Linden.

It's easy with hindsight to say those prospects weren't as good as our present prospects, but it becomes quite ridiculous when you suppose any of our present prospects and young players will be as good as the best prospects and young players we had back then.

Even if our present crop is better, it won't be by much, and the league itself is better too and in the end, it's another close parallel with the Houle era, including the records in mediocrity which you consistently ignore.

The two eras are getting pretty close.

 

[RandR]

This is the biggest problem with Bergevin/Molson for sure. They have been dealt a poker hand this year where they are chasing the straight and even if we get that straight, we are up against a Full House or Royal Flush. Fold the hand for this year please. Lets go after the best pick we can get and play the kids more. Call up Alzner, Play Lindgren more, Keep Drouin and Kotkaniemi out for as long as we can.

There are lots of things we can do where we turn the pressure to win dial down and let our fan base enjoy watching our youth (win or lose) and our management can evaluate them with more ice time.

It's opportunity to test our youth while we try to pick in the top 10 again. Come on man! You can do it Molson. We will support you if you make the right move... lots of empty seats in the Bell centers last night! . If you continue to chase the straight, you won't fool our fan base and it might get worse for your pocket of money

Good post, but it is far too early for management to go that route. Every single player and coach on this team is trying to turn this recent skid around and at least make the playoffs. So it would be a terrible message to those players and coaches if management threw in the towel on their playoff chances at a time when they are literally 1 point out of a non-wildcard playoff berth in which as things stand now they would end up playing another team with basically the same record.

Perhaps later towards the trade deadline.

 

[Mike Towers]

Rangers point blank announced to their fans that they were blowing up the team and starting a rebuild...less than 2 years later they are over 500 and a decent young team is emerging.

Yes,the Rangers knew they were not contending and had the foresight to trade off some veterans like McDonagh and Rick Nash.

 

[Habs Halifax]

You don't know this. How's Brook doing lately? How about Poehling? KK's a mess so far this year. Caufield is still up in the air. Fleury might be bottom 6 when all is said and done.

You expect too much potential. I remember how Lekhonen was touted the same way, by me included, and rightfully so as he too had showed a lot of promise (beat Alfredsson's playoff goal record as an 18yold), just like Peelman, Brook showed promise. There's a problem in developmemt in Montreal, especially offensive development.

Romanov might become very good, but even today, we know he is unlikely to be as good as Markov.

I think you either forget or are unaware of how good Markov was when he came in. We see Suz is doing really good so far, but it's not as good.

Caufield, KK, Peel, Suz, Brook, Romanov and whoever else, how many will get close to Markov's impact? As good as Ribiero was? Will Primeau be as good as at least Theodore?

I think you clearly lack perspective of how it was back then as there are a lot of parallels. We had many young promising players when Houle left; Markov was 20, Theodore was 24, Souray 24, Zubrus 22, Ribeiro 20, Ryder 20, Bouillon 25.

And that's without the other prospects who didn't pan out like Hossa 19, Deslile 23, Asham 22, (Matt) Higgins 23, Chouinard 20...

And just several months after he left, we added Komisarek as a draftee, and Bulis 22 and Zednik 24 for Zubrus and Linden.

It's easy with hindsight to say those prospects weren't as good as our present prospects, but it becomes quite ridiculous when you suppose any of our present prospects and young players will be as good as the best prospects and young players we had back then.

Even if our present crop is better, it won't be by much, and the league itself is better too and in the end, it's another close parallel with the Houle era, including the records in mediocrity which you consistently ignore.

The two eras are getting pretty close.

I didn't read everything and I apologize. All I need to say is we never had both quality and quantity like this in a decade. You can try to compare to the past all you want. I played that game too so it's not like you are trying to tell me something I already don't know.

I got jumped for saying we will turn the corner with drafting and developing back in 2017 (Dec I believe). It's been 2 years since and our prospect pool has only gotten better. Keep fighting probability if you wish and we can talk about who was right when all those kids are 22/23 ish. I will have no problem saying you were right. But will you apologize and say you were wrong if several of them turn into impact players? Something tells me you won't. We will see.

There will be bust but there will also be surprises. I'm not betting on hope, I'm betting on probability based on my research

 

[Habs Halifax]

Good post, but it is far too early for management to go that route. Every single player and coach on this team is trying to turn this recent skid around and at least make the playoffs. So it would be a terrible message to those players and coaches if management threw in the towel on their playoff chances at a time when they are literally 1 point out of a non-wildcard playoff berth in which as things stand now they would end up playing another team with basically the same record.

Perhaps later towards the trade deadline.

It doesn't have to happen overnight but we should move in that direction. We need stars and another top 10 pick would help our probability! Getting Caufield at 15 was extremely lucky.

All we are doing right now is riding the roller coaster middle of the pack ride. I would relieve the pressure to win and give the kids more minutes. It's opportunity to test them more than we have been while we rest vets, sell some, and get a better understanding of what our needs are. A draft lottery win is not probable but we won't get it if we don't try.

The point is winning a cup, not making the playoffs as a cup pretender. If we are not careful, we will trip and fall on our face for a decade (like the Leafs did). Our roster has issues to sort out. Centers and LD will mature so we have to wait on that. But the soft style/smurf types are way too much of a % of our forward group. It's not about going after just size or just skating, it's about going after both skating and size!

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

I didn't read everything and I apologize. All I need to say is we never had both quality and quantity like this in a decade. You can try to compare to the past all you want. I played that game too so it's not like you are trying to tell me something I already don't know.

I got jumped for saying we will turn the corner with drafting and developing back in 2017 (Dec I believe). It's been 2 years since and our prospect pool has only gotten better. Keep fighting probability if you wish and we can talk about who was right when all those kids are 22/23 ish. I will have no problem saying you were right. But will you apologize and say you were wrong if several of them turn into impact players? Something tells me you won't. We will see.

There will be bust but there will also be surprises. I'm not betting on hope, I'm betting on probability based on my research

Good gawd... i never said they won't become good. What a childish strawman. Please quote where I've said this?

Maybe you should read it entirely.

Also, you say our prospects have only gotten better since what you said in Nov 2017, yet that's untrue as so far, three of our most important prospects are having trouble this year, mainly Peel, Brook and KK.

And please quit it with your big "research". You're clearly expecting too much potential, and me saying this doesn't equal me thinking any of them won't be any good, ffs I'm constantly debating against people who call out bust on any of our young prospects, so once more, I'm asking you to refrain from strawmaning me with words i havent used and intents i do not have and opinions I do not share.

You simply pretend im an extremist (saying i don't think any will be impact players?? Wth, get your head out of your ***) just so you can ignore my arguments. What I said is that you can't say it's better today when we don't know if any of them will be as good as Markov. That's not just an impact player, that's a #1 franchise D.

 

[AshyHabs]

Doesn't matter who you draft if you can't develop them...was it really necessary to bring Primeau up already? There were other options

This is why I have no optimistic outlook for this team's future. Let's say we happen to get Lafreniere who says he will be developed properly. It's a really shitty feeling to have as a fan.

 

[RandR]

It doesn't have to happen overnight but we should move in that direction. We need stars and another top 10 pick would help our probability! Getting Caufield at 15 was extremely lucky.

All we are doing right now is riding the roller coaster middle of the pack ride. I would relieve the pressure to win and give the kids more minutes. It's opportunity to test them more than we have been while we rest vets, sell some, and get a better understanding of what our needs are. A draft lottery win is not probable but we won't get it if we don't try.

The point is winning a cup, not making the playoffs as a cup pretender. If we are not careful, we will trip and fall on our face for a decade (like the Leafs did). Our roster has issues to sort out. Centers and LD will mature so we have to wait on that. But the soft style/smurf types are way too much of a % of our forward group. It's not about going after just size or just skating, it's about going after both skating and size!

You make some good points. Hopefully the Habs won't be in that same position at the trade deadline when there will be some buyers for players that aren't in this team's long-term plans. At least Bergevin isn't (yet) giving up any futures (picks or prospects) for help that won't last past this season just to keep his job for another year.

Making the playoffs is not such a bad thing even if they aren't contenders for the cup though. None of the players want to be golfing the 2nd week of April. And young players like Domi and Fleury could use some playoff experience for when this team hopefully does becomes a contender. As for the Leafs, they only got to be a playoff contender after multiple terrible seasons with high draft picks and a lottery win; and yet right now questions are already being asked if they have to wait another year before they win even a single playoff round.

The thing I agree with you most about is the need for more size on forward. Boy do the Avs have that combination of speed and size. Poehling will help the Habs big time with his size but he isn't NHL-ready just yet.

 

[Adam Michaels]