Speculation: Habs on Tradecentre Part 8 (Post-Deadline & Free Agency Talk: All proposals here)

[Habtchum*]

Why is everyone assuming Bordeleau will be available, with the Avs drafting most probably in the top 3 and getting an impact player who most probably will be on the roster next year I'm sure they will want to keep this kind of player on their team

How come folks on this board and maybe Bergevin don't think the same about protecting our young assets ?

 

[MSLs absurd thighs]

What's your obsession with age? It's not like the Habs have a roster of 35+ players. Good young players need quality veterans around them. Elias is still a 1st line calibre player. Halpern as we have seen can still skate, win faceoffs and kill penalities, that's what you need in a #4 center.

More injuries, less speed, declining play, and body often gives up at some point in an 82 games season.

The Habs are not in a position to add 35+ players.
We'd have Gionta, Bouillon, Halpern, Elias, Markov in that category is we were to listen to you. After that, how can we even blame "bad luck" for having injuries and seeing vets slow down?

 

[Monctonscout]

Why is everyone assuming Bordeleau will be available, with the Avs drafting most probably in the top 3 and getting an impact player who most probably will be on the roster next year I'm sure they will want to keep this kind of player on their team

I'm assuming they will re-sign him if they are happy with him. If they don't then obviously he isn't the great enfocer some here seem to think.

 

[Habs 4 Life]

Because he's dying to play for his home province, just like Briere and all those other Quebecois free agents do.

We could probably get him realistically if we paid more than 1M for his services, but that would be stupid, because he is terrible.

Yes all those great hometown players who just wish to come back, even Laganiere yesterday signed with us, couldn't wait to come home

 

[Monctonscout]

More injuries, less speed, declining play, and body often gives up at some point in an 82 games season.

The Habs are not in a position to add 35+ players.
We'd have Gionta, Bouillon, Halpern, Elias, Markov in that category is we were to listen to you. After that, how can we even blame "bad luck" for having injuries and seeing vets slow down?

There is no proof that older players get hurt more. That's your imagination. Galchenyuk missed all of last year at 17. Crosby is hardly an old man and he's missed huge chunks of time the last few years. If you look at the serious injuries in the NHL it doesn't discriminate based on age.

Blindly just having young players trying to carry your team is a huge failure, just look at Edmonton.

Gionta has one year left on his contract, not 35 yet.

Halpern looks like he is skating better than 2 years ago, don't see why you have a big issue signing him for 1 more year.

Elias doesn't look like a guy on his last legs.

 

[Et le But]

All I hear on this board is how great a city Montreal is, yet none of these guys want to play there. Sad.

FYI - I'm not a Montrealer but I've been there about 50 times.

I'm not a Montreal native and speak almost no French, but if my job gave me an excuse to move back to Montreal, I'd be on the next flight out. Even if it meant making less money due to taxes and all that, but I'm not a multi-millionaire so if anything Montreal's low cost of living benefits me more than low taxes would.

But if anything, people who actually lived most of their life in Montreal/Quebec are sick of the weather and issues...unique to the region.

Obviously a lot of Quebecois players grew up Habs fan, but pro hockey players rarely care about such things. For a guy like Bordeleau, my assumption is his first concern is surviving in the NHL, and the Avs might be able to guarantee him a starting spot.

 

[Draft]

So, we'll have 2 forward spots. 1 top 6, 1 bottom 6.

Number 7 dman.

For the top 6 spot.

Clarkson/Clowe.

Clarkson - A slight drop in offense from Ryder, but a huge boost in toughness/physicality/leadership.

Clowe - A huge drop in offensive, but a huge boost in toughness/physicality/leadership.

Nathan Horton - Seems to really only be tough with Boston and I doubt he comes to Montreal, unless we massively overpay for him.

Wild cards:
Bryan Bickell - big body at 6'4, is physical and can score on great chances.

Victor Stalberg - 6'3, can be physical, has tremendous speed and can score.

Now, we need a 4th line centre.

Jerred Smithson - 6'3, 34 years old. Physical and can win faceoffs while providing some offense.

David Steckel - 6'6 31 years old. Can be physical. Wins faceoffs and can kill penalties. Has some scoring.

Potential 13th forward.

Patrick Bordeleau.

Potential dman signing.

Cody Franson - Not the best defensively, but can be really physical in terms of body checking/clearing the crease. Isn't a fighter, but at 6'5 he would be an added need on the back end. If he were signed, I'd have no problem trading Diaz.

Douglas Murray - Very strong, big and slow dman. Not expected to provide offense, but can add some much needed size on the back end and shift Bouillon to the number 7 spot where he belongs.

Team actually gets bigger and harder to play against. We're not really needing more small, soft forwards.

I love Gionta, but if we could buy him out/ trade him and sign Clarkson in his spot I'd do it in a heart beat.

Liking how you think, sir.

It's not exactly a popular opinion but... I really don't have much interest in signing Clowe or Clarkson. They're glorified 3rd liners who are going to be paid like 1st/2nd liners. Considering we have Bourque at 3.3mil, Pacioretty at 4.5mil and Plekanec at 5mil, what sense does it make to give one of these guys 4.5mil over 6 years (seems to be the asking price)? They are both very streaky, physically and production-wise. They aren't fast, they aren't heavyweights, they don't bring offence - they are offensive because of the players on their lines. They open up space but honestly, we've got speed to do that. Horton is probably the best option for the 2nd line, similar to Bourque. Too much of a caveman for my taste.

It is a common misconception that Clarkson is a scorer. Look at his stats. He has scored more than 30pts twice, he's scored over 17 goals once. Don't think anything has to be said about Clowe and his offensive contribution.

If we are going to sign 3rd liners, let's sign 3rd liners and pay them accordingly. Bickell and Stalberg are great options, 27yrs old, similar production, could both be signed for 5/6 years 2.5 for Bickell, 3.5 for Stalberg and I wouldn't feel unhappy about it.


Another potentially unpopular opinion - Bring back Lapierre. He's actually turned into a pretty good player in Vancouver. Let him run his mouth and get knocked around so Gallagher doesn't have to. Hits, good defensively, decent size.

Loving the inclusion of Cody Franson. He can run over guys pretty good, this is true. May not bring spectacular defence but he does bring physicality, something we lack. With Subban, Franson and Emelin able to lay out huge hits, makes opposing forwards a little more tentative. As you said, also brings offence, no more Bou-Bou on the PP.

 

[Analyzer*]

Liking how you think, sir.

It's not exactly a popular opinion but... I really don't have much interest in signing Clowe or Clarkson. They're glorified 3rd liners who are going to be paid like 1st/2nd liners. Considering we have Bourque at 3.3mil, Pacioretty at 4.5mil and Plekanec at 5mil, what sense does it make to give one of these guys 4.5mil over 6 years (seems to be the asking price)? They are both very streaky, physically and production-wise. They aren't fast, they aren't heavyweights, they don't bring offence - they are offensive because of the players on their lines. They open up space but honestly, we've got speed to do that. Horton is probably the best option for the 2nd line, similar to Bourque. Too much of a caveman for my taste.

It is a common misconception that Clarkson is a scorer. Look at his stats. He has scored more than 30pts twice, he's scored over 17 goals once. Don't think anything has to be said about Clowe and his offensive contribution.

If we are going to sign 3rd liners, let's sign 3rd liners and pay them accordingly. Bickell and Stalberg are great options, 27yrs old, similar production, could both be signed for 5/6 years 2.5 for Bickell, 3.5 for Stalberg and I wouldn't feel unhappy about it.


Another potentially unpopular opinion - Bring back Lapierre. He's actually turned into a pretty good player in Vancouver. Let him run his mouth and get knocked around so Gallagher doesn't have to. Hits, good defensively, decent size.

Loving the inclusion of Cody Franson. He can run over guys pretty good, this is true. May not bring spectacular defence but he does bring physicality, something we lack. With Subban, Franson and Emelin able to lay out huge hits, makes opposing forwards a little more tentative. As you said, also brings offence, no more Bou-Bou on the PP.

It's why I'm hesitant about Clowe. At least if you pay Clarkson the big dollars, he can at least score. He has had a 30 goal season.
Clowe at 4 mill is a huge mistake unless they somehow infuse scoring ability into him. Clarkson at 5 mill, he actually save.

Bickell/Stalberg (preferably Bickell) would be great, but someone would be needed to move out, unless they're the top 6 player we sign.

I'd welcome Lappy back, but he might whine about ice time again. However, we'd also need someone to help protect him and Gallagher.

 

[hototogisu]

I never really thought of Franson as being physical, maybe I'm just not watching him enough. I always found him to be soft but with good offensive instincts.

Anyway he's in for a big payday with the season he's having this year.

 

[Draft]

I never really thought of Franson as being physical, maybe I'm just not watching him enough. I always found him to be soft but with good offensive instincts.

Anyway he's in for a big payday with the season he's having this year.

He's not... tough or gritty. He does line up some big hits and might in time become more physical, still only 25. But he is big and mobile. Not your ideal physical defender but a step up from your typical offensive defenceman.

 

[V13]

I completely agree that defense is the number 1 priority. But I'm not really sure Ladd and Stalberg are all that different anymore. Chicago basically groomed Stalberg to replace Ladd.

I always saw Stalberg as a more offensive version of Jason Chimera. Ladd is more physical and has a better offensive upside imho and i prefer a guy like that who will use his size more often. That said that doesn't mean Stalberg wouldn't be a good fit for our bottom 9. Bergevin was with the Hawks when they got him so he probably know quite a bit about the guy. If he sign him this summer and think he would look good on the Habs then i will trust his judgement.

But give me 1 or 2 D first. I will be disappointed if he gets a forward but we start the season with the same D corps we have now.

 

[Monctonscout]

It's why I'm hesitant about Clowe. At least if you pay Clarkson the big dollars, he can at least score. He has had a 30 goal season.
Clowe at 4 mill is a huge mistake unless they somehow infuse scoring ability into him. Clarkson at 5 mill, he actually save.

Bickell/Stalberg (preferably Bickell) would be great, but someone would be needed to move out, unless they're the top 6 player we sign.

I'd welcome Lappy back, but he might whine about ice time again. However, we'd also need someone to help protect him and Gallagher.

I wouldn't call Clarkson a big scorer just yet. He had a big year last year but is not producing the last 5-6 weeks. His goals are not skill goals, just PP garbage goals, which is not a big need. I agree he brings toughness, and I would take him on the Habs but not at 5 mil per year, I just don't think he brings enough impact. Maybe for 3.75-4 mil over 3 years but even that is a bit of an overpayment. He is not as complete a player as Prust but has better hands around the net.

 

[Analyzer*]

I wouldn't call Clarkson a big scorer just yet. He had a big year last year but is not producing the last 5-6 weeks. His goals are not skill goals, just PP garbage goals, which is not a big need. I agree he brings toughness, and I would take him on the Habs but not at 5 mil per year, I just don't think he brings enough impact. Maybe for 3.75-4 mil over 3 years but even that is a bit of an overpayment. He is not as complete a player as Prust but has better hands around the net.

I edited my previous post, but for some reason I keep thinking Clarkson scored 30 goals twice.

Garbage goals are a bit of a problem for us. Maybe it's just me, but haven't you sat there watching the pp, or even 5 on 5 play and see no one within 10 feet of the net ? If this were a full season at this point I'd honestly be insane.

Now, 5 mill a season for a guy who's going to get us 15-20 is a lot. Especially with the cap going down. However, he does bring size, physicality and a I don't take **** from people attitude.

If Prust had actual goal scoring hands he'd play more and get around 10-15 goals a season easily.

Yes Franson is in for a big pay day, so that makes me worried about him. However, since he landed in Toronto he's been, quietly physical ? If that makes sense. He's like Cole I guess you could say. He hits quite frequently, but you don't really notice as they're not a lot of big time hits.

Ryan O'Bryne is a possibility, but is he really any better than Cube ?

 

[Draft]

I always saw Stalberg as a more offensive version of Jason Chimera. Ladd is more physical and has a better offensive upside imho and i prefer a guy like that who will use his size more often. That said that doesn't mean Stalberg wouldn't be a good fit for our bottom 9. Bergevin was with the Hawks when they got him so he probably know quite a bit about the guy. If he sign him this summer and think he would look good on the Habs then i will trust his judgement.

But give me 1 or 2 D first. I will be disappointed if he gets a forward but we start the season with the same D corps we have now.

I'm not sure there are one or two defencemen that we can sign with this year's UFAs. Honestly, there aren't defenceman that would actually be an improvement. There are several RFAs that would be awesome pick ups. Leddy, Demers, Franson, Alzner, Shattenkirk, Tanev etc. I expect that they would be expensive and likely to sign with their own teams.

Montreal needs a top 9 forward. Kristo isn't ready for the NHL, nor are there other prospects in Hamilton or the CHL that are ready.

 

[Roulin]

I'm not sure there are one or two defencemen that we can sign with this year's UFAs. Honestly, there aren't defenceman that would actually be an improvement. There are several RFAs that would be awesome pick ups. Leddy, Demers, Franson, Alzner, Shattenkirk, Tanev etc. I expect that they would be expensive and likely to sign with their own teams.

Montreal needs a top 9 forward. Kristo isn't ready for the NHL, nor are there other prospects in Hamilton or the CHL that are ready.

It would be kind of a jerk move, but it might be possible to put Nashville in a tough spot with a front loaded offer sheet to Josi. They have capspace, but have a lot of actual cash committed next season, and won't be getting playoff revenue this year.

 

[Draft]

I edited my previous post, but for some reason I keep thinking Clarkson scored 30 goals twice.

Garbage goals are a bit of a problem for us. Maybe it's just me, but haven't you sat there watching the pp, or even 5 on 5 play and see no one within 10 feet of the net ? If this were a full season at this point I'd honestly be insane.

Now, 5 mill a season for a guy who's going to get us 15-20 is a lot. Especially with the cap going down. However, he does bring size, physicality and a I don't take **** from people attitude.

If Prust had actual goal scoring hands he'd play more and get around 10-15 goals a season easily.

Yes Franson is in for a big pay day, so that makes me worried about him. However, since he landed in Toronto he's been, quietly physical ? If that makes sense. He's like Cole I guess you could say. He hits quite frequently, but you don't really notice as they're not a lot of big time hits.

Ryan O'Bryne is a possibility, but is he really any better than Cube ?

Bickell brings size, physicality and a I don't take **** from people attitude. He can also put up some points and comes at potentially 2-2.5mil cheaper. If you check out the NJ boards there aren't many nice comments on Clarkson. We can bring in physicality and size for a lot cheaper.

I think O'Byrne's physicality is more impactful than Cube's, only because he's huge.

 

[Monctonscout]

I edited my previous post, but for some reason I keep thinking Clarkson scored 30 goals twice.

Garbage goals are a bit of a problem for us. Maybe it's just me, but haven't you sat there watching the pp, or even 5 on 5 play and see no one within 10 feet of the net ? If this were a full season at this point I'd honestly be insane.

Now, 5 mill a season for a guy who's going to get us 15-20 is a lot. Especially with the cap going down. However, he does bring size, physicality and a I don't take **** from people attitude.

If Prust had actual goal scoring hands he'd play more and get around 10-15 goals a season easily.

Yes Franson is in for a big pay day, so that makes me worried about him. However, since he landed in Toronto he's been, quietly physical ? If that makes sense. He's like Cole I guess you could say. He hits quite frequently, but you don't really notice as they're not a lot of big time hits.

Ryan O'Bryne is a possibility, but is he really any better than Cube ?

A ton of our goals are garbage goals within 10-15 feet. Look at Gallagher's goals, Gionta's goals, Bourque's goals, Eller's goals, Galchenyuk's goals, Prust's goals and DD's goals...all those players score the majority of their goals from in close, not shots off the rush or from the point.

As I said we could find a spot for Clarkson, but the price tag will be high. His last 28 games with NJ fighting for a playoff spot he has gone 3-2-5. Other than last year he has played 350 NHL games and went 65-56-121.

 

[Draft]

It's why I'm hesitant about Clowe. At least if you pay Clarkson the big dollars, he can at least score. He has had a 30 goal season.
Clowe at 4 mill is a huge mistake unless they somehow infuse scoring ability into him. Clarkson at 5 mill, he actually save.

Bickell/Stalberg (preferably Bickell) would be great, but someone would be needed to move out, unless they're the top 6 player we sign.

I'd welcome Lappy back, but he might whine about ice time again. However, we'd also need someone to help protect him and Gallagher.

This is the way I see it. We don't want our hopes or plans resting on Clarkson signing with the team as a 2nd line player. He's had one season of being a 2nd line worthy player. He isn't a goal scorer, he doesn't bring offence to the team. He isn't a fighter that puts teams off or who plays the role of going after players. He's too good to be a grinder/fighter and he isn't good enough to be a 2nd line player. I really hope we don't have to pay him as a 1st line player (4.5-5milx5).

There is risk involved in not picking up a true 2nd line player. But the "2nd line" players in this FA crop aren't worth signing. Horton likely won't go to the Habs, Iginla is old, Elias is old, Bouchard's brain is broken, Ryder's old/expensive etc.

Pacioretty-Desharnais-Gallagher
Bourque-Plekanec-Gionta
Galchenyuk-Eller-Bickell
Prust-Lapierre-Dumont/Bordeleau/White

I think we have to live with the fact that Gionta and Markov are going to play out their contracts and that Desharnais might be here for through the end of his contract as well.

Bickell and Stalberg are not Top 6 players but, with signing Bickell/Stalberg at least we get some size and tertiary scoring as well as make it possible for Eller or Galchenyuk to get real minutes and potential time on a top line. We can still comfortably roll three lines and have scoring on each of them. It downgrades our 2nd line but greatly improves our 3rd and 4th lines, it increases size throughout the lineup and it increases the 2-way ability of the team. It isn't ideal for us not to have another 2nd line player, I just don't think it's realistic that we'd land one and be happy with it this year.

 

[bud12]

Bordeleau please. And trade for Tootoo.

 

[MSLs absurd thighs]

There is no proof that older players get hurt more. That's your imagination. Galchenyuk missed all of last year at 17. Crosby is hardly an old man and he's missed huge chunks of time the last few years. If you look at the serious injuries in the NHL it doesn't discriminate based on age.

Blindly just having young players trying to carry your team is a huge failure, just look at Edmonton.

Gionta has one year left on his contract, not 35 yet.

Halpern looks like he is skating better than 2 years ago, don't see why you have a big issue signing him for 1 more year.

Elias doesn't look like a guy on his last legs.

There is a huge difference between going "all Edmonton" and just trying to limit the number of 35+ years old players in a roster. We already have guys like Bouillon, Gionta, Plekanec, Bourque, possibly Ryder, Markov, Moen, Prust and Gorges to take care of leadership and to be a veteran presence to insulate those kids.

Ever since potting 78 points with the Devils last season, Elias has played a total of 74 games, and got a total of 39 points in those games. If it's not a clear sign of decreasing play, I don't know what is. And I wouldn't count on him drastically improving next season, considering he plays top minutes on the NJ roster and that Therrien likes to share the big minutes on 3 lines.

Halpern has been a good quick fix, but a 38 years old player on a 4th line is not something I'd forward to. He's still a player all the teams below us in the standings got a chance to get for free, and chose to pass on.

And we're already witnessing a player drastically going down with Gionta. We don't need another one, it would be a stupid, stupid investment.

And yes, players slow down and tend to have a couple more little injuries here and there as they age. That's no rocket science. Does that mean they can tear their ACL any shift for no particular reason? No. But 82 games schedule is harder on their bodies, and they feel the effects much more than younger players.

You want to add a veteran this summer? Add a guy who actually adds a particular extra dimension to this team. Not any more of what we already have.

 

[Robiyardov]

Franson

I like Cody.
Not overly physical like some stated in Big Impact checks, but he hits, he clears and above all he is helped by a big body and tremendos reach, which we clearly lack off at the back end. And, he is mobile.

I think we're having difficulties with the Leafs mostly because they are all huge and big at the back end and can toss some of our guys away, and our speed is not as effective as against other teams because they're quite mobile as far as big defensemen are concerned.

I'd like to add Franson on this team. And, he does have a bit of offensive potential.

 

[gusfring]

We could also start drafting these types of players, but that's asking a lot I guess.

 

[Roulin]

We could also start drafting these types of players, but that's asking a lot I guess.

Agreed, totally in favor of drafting the next Elias.

 

[Draft]

I like Cody.
Not overly physical like some stated in Big Impact checks, but he hits, he clears and above all he is helped by a big body and tremendos reach, which we clearly lack off at the back end. And, he is mobile.

I think we're having difficulties with the Leafs mostly because they are all huge and big at the back end and can toss some of our guys away, and our speed is not as effective as against other teams because they're quite mobile as far as big defensemen are concerned.

I'd like to add Franson on this team. And, he does have a bit of offensive potential.

Franson would be an incredible acquisition for the Habs. Having another big, mobile defenceman in addition to Tinordi would be huge for the future of the defence. Am I mistaken in believing he's an RFA? What is his contract worth and what would it take to acquire him?

In two years? Looks awesome to me.

Gorges-Subban
Tinordi-Beaulieu
Franson-Emelin
(Nygren/Ellis)

 

[1993]

This is the way I see it. We don't want our hopes or plans resting on Clarkson signing with the team as a 2nd line player. He's had one season of being a 2nd line worthy player. He isn't a goal scorer, he doesn't bring offence to the team. He isn't a fighter that puts teams off or who plays the role of going after players. He's too good to be a grinder/fighter and he isn't good enough to be a 2nd line player. I really hope we don't have to pay him as a 1st line player (4.5-5milx5).

There is risk involved in not picking up a true 2nd line player. But the "2nd line" players in this FA crop aren't worth signing. Horton likely won't go to the Habs, Iginla is old, Elias is old, Bouchard's brain is broken, Ryder's old/expensive etc.

Pacioretty-Desharnais-Gallagher
Bourque-Plekanec-Gionta
Galchenyuk-Eller-Bickell
Prust-Lapierre-Dumont/Bordeleau/White

I think we have to live with the fact that Gionta and Markov are going to play out their contracts and that Desharnais might be here for through the end of his contract as well.

Bickell and Stalberg are not Top 6 players but, with signing Bickell/Stalberg at least we get some size and tertiary scoring as well as make it possible for Eller or Galchenyuk to get real minutes and potential time on a top line. We can still comfortably roll three lines and have scoring on each of them. It downgrades our 2nd line but greatly improves our 3rd and 4th lines, it increases size throughout the lineup and it increases the 2-way ability of the team. It isn't ideal for us not to have another 2nd line player, I just don't think it's realistic that we'd land one and be happy with it this year.

Yes to Bickell and Stalberg. I'd also move Gionta at the draft to try and move up in the 1st round. Trade Desharnais (not likely to happen) and Ryder's rights to Nashville as they need scoring. Maybe give them back their 2nd and these two for their 1st. I'd also move Moen and Bourque if possible. Add Clowe or Clarkson and trade for Hossa as Chicago is in cap trouble. Offer sheet Chris Stewart

Pac Galchenyuk Gally
Clowe Pleks Hossa
Stalberg Eller Stewart
Prust Lapierre Bickell / Dumont / White

Try to add a 7th Dman that will hurt people - one with the crazy eyes!!