Proposal: Habs offer sheet Mantha

[glenbuis]

At 8.5 Mantha is overpaid but a million at the most . He is exactly the piece we need . If you could force yzerman’s hand by doing this I’d go for it . Yzerman may prefer a futures package instead

 

[Habs Halifax]

Need to remember that Bergevin and Yzerman are the best of friends, So the odds of Bergevin even throwing an OS to Detroit is slim to none. Montreal would need to offer sheet Mantha in the $8.5m range for Yzerman to take the picks so that 2 1st a 2nd and 3rd anything less and Yzerman easily matches probably have to be around $9m to $9.5m over 5 seasons for Yzerman to take the picks. So yeah for $8.3m Yzerman would match that rather easily.

This is about if Yzerman plays hard ball with Mantha and tries to low ball him. Then Mantha's agent calls Bergevin to reveal the low offer the Wings have on the table. If this narrative does not happen, forget about it.

As far as $8.3M, that is the threshold where it's one less 1st (Actually, it's $8.726M). You still don't match with one less 1st?

I don't have any problems with overpaying Mantha which is the exact type of piece we need on wing. Habs have lots of flexibility with our cap management moving forward.

 

[Flyer lurker]

In a talented east it is the wrong plan times 1000000 to let go of a 2022 1st to lose even a 1 or 2% chance to draft Shane Wright for Mantha.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Would you trade domi , a 2nd and a 3rd for Mantha ?

Detroit would never accept that deal for Mantha, If MB wants Mantha it's going to be brutally painful for him. Yzerman isn't Holland he's in the drivers seat on Mantha and anything less then a major overpayment isn't happening.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Sure, it's very possible Bergevin does not go that high. I realize that. Don't you realize this is fantasy talk by fans and 99% of the stuff we talk about don't happen?

You are questioning the logic?

* Habs went 3 seasons now with $5M+ in cap space. Some are thinking $9M for Mantha is a horrible idea. $2M - $3M overpaid when we had $5M+ in wasted cap space for 3 years now.
* Habs have Suzuki, KK, Romanov, Caufield, Norlinder, Primeau on ELC/bridge deals in the next 3-5 years.
* Habs can let go Byron and Tatar if we are forced to.
* Alzner is off the books in 2 years
* Weber likely retires in 3 years when he salary drops to $1M for his age 38 season
* Mantha has Laine numbers in the last 2 years. I think he fits the Habs very well and I'm willing to gamble a bit

Habs don't have cap problems. I would not have any problems overpaying Mantha by $2M - $3M when we need a winger like this and we have the cap space to pull it off. Now is the right time for the Habs to get aggressive. You don't have to agree but I gave you lots of context to support the logic.

Again, I'd love to hear more about the four year bridge deal...

 

[malcb33]

Mantha is a beast and IMO a great fit in Montreal. However, the OP's plan doesn't consider the long term players the Habs need to get under contract in the next few years and their internal cap structure.

The best-case scenario would be to get Mantha an offer sheet around 8M that walks him to free agency. I would guess that 8M is more than Yzerman probably wants to pay and even if he does after his deal ends Montreal can take another shot at him then. Just to be clear though, I don't think this is a good idea.

 

[Habs Halifax]

With Marner, you're overpaying a guy who scored 94+ points and who you expect to consistently be a 90+ point winger going forward (he paced for it again this year).
With Matthews - you're overpaying a top 5 asset in the league, a player expected to be a top 5 player in the league in his prime, or close. A potential perennial rocket winner, or at least ~45-50 goal guy.

I agree ideally - Leafs should have negotiated better deals based on their RFA status and not paid as much. But i'd be less upset about overpaying an absolute top player than a non-top player. 9.5M$ for Mantha is just.....insane

$9.5M is overpaid by $2M - $3M range yes. What is your sane AAV? $6.5M? And you don't think Mantha produces more in his prime years? Risky yes but I think you are overly conservative. You rather waste more years with $5M in cap space and overpay Gallagher and Tatar after their prime years right?

Your strategy is more middle of the pack years cause you think Hall signs with the Habs

 

[glenbuis]

With Marner, you're overpaying a guy who scored 94+ points and who you expect to consistently be a 90+ point winger going forward (he paced for it again this year).
With Matthews - you're overpaying a top 5 asset in the league, a player expected to be a top 5 player in the league in his prime, or close. A potential perennial rocket winner, or at least ~45-50 goal guy.

I agree ideally - Leafs should have negotiated better deals based on their RFA status and not paid as much. But i'd be less upset about overpaying an absolute top player than a non-top player. 9.5M$ for Mantha is just.....insane

Give it a couple more years and Dubas will be run out of town . They will have to unload Matthews before the final year of his deal because he will have a full no movement clause . The leafs will get nowhere near his value because no team will pay for it knowing he will be testing free agency . Now that was insane . Marner on the other hand is beautiful to watch . Just not in the playoffs when the ref puts the whistle away . Kinda like Johnny hockey. Now giving 22 million to guys who haven’t won you a playoff series is insane . Chicago yes . Toews and Kane delivered three cups .

 

[WingsMJN2965]

$9.5M is overpaid by $2M - $3M range yes. What is your sane AAV? $6.5M? And you don't think Mantha produces more in his prime years? Risky yes but I think you are overly conservative. You rather waste more years with $5M in cap space and overpay Gallagher and Tatar after their prime years right?

Your strategy is more middle of the pack years cause you think Hall signs with the Habs

Mantha could be the PPG player he looked to be this year, and he's still not worth being in the top 5 highest paid wingers in the league.

At best, if he hadn't gotten hurt and Corona didn't hit and he got a full season this year, he was only looking at $8M from Detroit.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Mantha is a beast and IMO a great fit in Montreal. However, the OP's plan doesn't consider the long term players the Habs need to get under contract in the next few years and their internal cap structure.

The best-case scenario would be to get Mantha an offer sheet around 8M that walks him to free agency. I would guess that 8M is more than Yzerman probably wants to pay and even if he does after his deal ends Montreal can take another shot at him then. Just to be clear though, I don't think this is a good idea.

False. The offer for Mantha at $9M (+/-) does consider the long term cap for the Habs. This was not some knee jerk proposal. Look at post 100. It explains the context of where the Habs are at. Danault and Petry are the only two I consider guys I retain. I'd flip Domi, Tatar, Gallagher for futures in a heartbeat if I had to. Plus Weber and Alzner will be off the books by the time you got to pay Suzuki, KK, Romanov, Caufield, etc. And with a much higher salary cap too!

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

This is about if Yzerman plays hard ball with Mantha and tries to low ball him. Then Mantha's agent calls Bergevin to reveal the low offer the Wings have on the table. If this narrative does not happen, forget about it.

As far as $8.3M, that is the threshold where it's one less 1st (Actually, it's $8.726M). You still don't match with one less 1st?

I don't have any problems with overpaying Mantha which is the exact type of piece we need on wing. Habs have lots of flexibility with our cap management moving forward.

Who freaking cares if Yzerman plays hard ball with Mantha or not, Even Mantha acknowledges with his injury history that he might not command the money he'd like if he stayed healthy and put up better numbers. Yzerman can offer him 7 x 7 or 7 x 7.5 with the hope that he stays healthy and at least puts up between 60-70 points per season more would be an added bonus. If Yzerman feels that Mantha might not be part of our core going forward he can offer him 3 years $21 million eating 1 year of UFA. Yzerman isn't going to overspend on Mantha in a flat cap world and neither should Marc Bergevin Yzerman just said that he's not going to spend wildly like he did in Tampa. He's going to be very conservative in his signings from here on out.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Mantha could be the PPG player he looked to be this year, and he's still not worth being in the top 5 highest paid wingers in the league.

At best, if he hadn't gotten hurt and Corona didn't hit and he got a full season this year, he was only looking at $8M from Detroit.

Don't care about overpaying Mantha by $2M - $3M if he fits our cap. We have had over $5M in unused cap space for 3 years now and this is with Alzner in the AHL!

This is comical... You then say he could get only $8M if he had a full season. Habs are Pejorative Slured giving him $9M eh where Yzerman does not match? $1M overpaid is a huge problem eh

 

[Habs Halifax]

Who freaking cares if Yzerman plays hard ball with Mantha or not, Even Mantha acknowledges with his injury history that he might not command the money he'd like if he stayed healthy and put up better numbers. Yzerman can offer him 7 x 7 or 7 x 7.5 with the hope that he stays healthy and at least puts up between 60-70 points per season more would be an added bonus. If Yzerman feels that Mantha might not be part of our core going forward he can offer him 3 years $21 million eating 1 year of UFA. Yzerman isn't going to overspend on Mantha in a flat cap world and neither should Marc Bergevin Yzerman just said that he's not going to spend wildly like he did in Tampa. He's going to be very conservative in his signings from here on out.

I just think you are upset that the Habs could offer sheet Mantha. If Yzerman tries to low ball him like he did with his top players in Tampa (less tax than Detroit), it could force Mantha's hands and his agent calls Bergevin. You tried to say Bergevin avoid giving a offer sheet cause he is friends with Yzerman

 

[WingsMJN2965]

This is comical...

Took five pages for you to finally say something right.

This entire thread will be very amusing when Mantha stays in Detroit for $7 to $7.5M.

 

[glenbuis]

Detroit would never accept that deal for Mantha, If MB wants Mantha it's going to be brutally painful for him. Yzerman isn't Holland he's in the drivers seat on Mantha and anything less then a major overpayment isn't happening.

Yes but he may not want to pay Mantha 8.5 million for 7 years . He will only receive a first second and third . He may be more inclined to talk trade than . If we recover a first next year from someone for domi it would essentially be domi and a second and third . If yzerman continues to ask for to much than he can enjoy paying Mantha the 8.5

 

[bobholly39]

$9.5M is overpaid by $2M - $3M range yes. What is your sane AAV? $6.5M? And you don't think Mantha produces more in his prime years? Risky yes but I think you are overly conservative. You rather waste more years with $5M in cap space and overpay Gallagher and Tatar after their prime years right?

Your strategy is more middle of the pack years cause you think Hall signs with the Habs

I'm literally about to report for trolling now... You're being such a hypocrite. All season long every single post of yours about our strategy for future included "when Hall signs with us UFA". And my stance all year long had been:

1. Why would he sign with us vs any other more attractive destination?

2. I don't even like Hall that much. I thought he was overrated in 2018 when he won the Hart, and i'd probably pay him/want him less than most.

And i've also said this at least 3x in this thread so far and you ignore it each time =/

 

[glenbuis]

Who freaking cares if Yzerman plays hard ball with Mantha or not, Even Mantha acknowledges with his injury history that he might not command the money he'd like if he stayed healthy and put up better numbers. Yzerman can offer him 7 x 7 or 7 x 7.5 with the hope that he stays healthy and at least puts up between 60-70 points per season more would be an added bonus. If Yzerman feels that Mantha might not be part of our core going forward he can offer him 3 years $21 million eating 1 year of UFA. Yzerman isn't going to overspend on Mantha in a flat cap world and neither should Marc Bergevin Yzerman just said that he's not going to spend wildly like he did in Tampa. He's going to be very conservative in his signings from here on out.

I hope he gets to conservative

 

[Go Wings]

2 first round picks where they could end up being lottery picks to Detroit...does Mantha need a ride to the airport?

 

[Hunter368]

Sure, it's very possible Bergevin does not go that high. I realize that. Don't you realize this is fantasy talk by fans and 99% of the stuff we talk about don't happen?

You are questioning the logic?

* Habs went 3 seasons now with $5M+ in cap space. Some are thinking $9M for Mantha is a horrible idea. $2M - $3M overpaid when we had $5M+ in wasted cap space for 3 years now.
* Habs have Suzuki, KK, Romanov, Caufield, Norlinder, Primeau on ELC/bridge deals in the next 3-5 years.
* Habs can let go Byron and Tatar if we are forced to.
* Alzner is off the books in 2 years
* Weber likely retires in 3 years when he salary drops to $1M for his age 38 season
* Mantha has Laine numbers in the last 2 years. I think he fits the Habs very well and I'm willing to gamble a bit

Habs don't have cap problems. I would not have any problems overpaying Mantha by $2M - $3M when we need a winger like this and we have the cap space to pull it off. Now is the right time for the Habs to get aggressive. You don't have to agree but I gave you lots of context to support the logic.

I understand your logic, I just question it’s right. If you sign Mantha to 9-9.5 million per year, how does that effect the negotiations with all your RFA’s and UFA’s over the next 2-3 years? You think Danault will happily sign for 5.5 million when he just watched his team sign an player from a different team who he likely sees himself as a comparable value wise? Signing Mantha to 9-9.5 million blows your entire cap structure internally out of the water.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

I understand your logic, I just question it’s right. If you sign Mantha to 9-9.5 million per year, how does that effect the negotiations with all your RFA’s and UFA’s over the next 2-3 years? You think Danault will happily sign for 5.5 million when he just watched his team sign an player from a different team who he likely sees himself as a comparable value wise? Signing Mantha to 9-9.5 million blows your entire cap structure internally out of the water.

While I agree with this, if Danault or his agent delude themselves into thinking he's worth similar money to Mantha, just cut him loose.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Yes but he may not want to pay Mantha 8.5 million for 7 years . He will only receive a first second and third . He may be more inclined to talk trade than . If we recover a first next year from someone for domi it would essentially be domi and a second and third . If yzerman continues to ask for to much than he can enjoy paying Mantha the 8.5

Mantha isn't getting 8.5 even Yzerman isn't that dumb. Mantha has 2 48 point seasons under his belt possibly a 3rd this year if COVID hadn't ended the season. If Yzerman offered Mantha 8 years $60 million or a $7.5m AAV he'd easily take that deal. Flat cap for possibly 3 more seasons is going to hurt tons of teams.

 

[Guttersniped]

How even 8.5m x 5 years for someone like Mantha is no biggie in a flat cap world when you will have RFAs looking for their own deals is the mystery to me. Some people are predicting the cap won’t go up for years even with the boost from Seattle after the financial losses of this season. I know, I know you have a secret plan you can’t let the other GMs know about...

 

[WingsMJN2965]

How even 8.5m x 5 years for someone like Mantha is no biggie in a flat cap world when you will have RFAs looking for their own deals is the mystery to me. Some people are predicting the cap won’t go up for years even with the boost from Seattle after the financial losses of this season. I know, I know you have a secret plan you can’t let the other GMs know about...

League outlook is that it'll stay flat the next three years, but with Seattle expansion and a new TV deal, that's probably their worst case scenario.

 

[Perennial]

Habs would be better off making that offer to Barzal...

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Habs would be better off making that offer to Barzal...

Or Sergachev.