Proposal: Habs offer sheet Mantha

[Habs Halifax]

You are overpaying him by 3.5m IF he was playing a full season, by 5.5m given the time he spends with injury ?

OK... no problem. Lets say you are right that he is worth $6M only. That $3.5M in cap space is not a problem while you have Suzuki, KK, Romanov, Caufield, Norlinder, Primeau all on ELC/Bridge deals in that 5 year span.

Give your head a shake. We went 3 years in a row with $5M in cap space. What is your breaking point? The point that it's worth it for the Habs and where Yzerman would not match? Lets see how much of a genius you are

I went high for a reason.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Domi's value is very fluid.

He's either a young 25yr old center who scored 70+ points in his first year at center, and is also known to have a high compete level.
Or - he just had a really bad season, supposedly attitude problems and doesn't get along with the coach/insists on playing a certain position, and had bad playoffs.

The first sentence gets you the #8 overall pick - almost easily. The second, not so much. Just comes down to finding the right team who values him highly. I don't think 8th overall is completely unrealistic, but could end up a lot less too.

I think there is lots of interest in Domi but the factor is sign/trade and will he come to terms with the team the Habs find as a trade partner. That is the biggest question

 

[cwede]

Offer sheet Ryan Strome instead.

 

[PavelBrendl]

Remember how much heat Pacioretty took from Habs fans when he was on a $4.5M contract?

This would be essentially the same thing, except he's 2 inches taller, being paid twice as much and cost major future building blocks in comp. What could possibly go wrong?

 

[Habs Halifax]

Because I am quite sure you can spend your cap in a better way. Even Krug at 8m or Hall at 9m or Pietrangelo at 10m is better (which is already a bad deal IMO) than Mantha at 9.5m. Toffoli is a UFA and could be a fit. Even signing Domi for 6.5m is a better deal than this. I am all for offersheets. For example O/S Sergachev if you want, but not Mantha and not at this price.

So you do think Krug, Hall, Toffoli, or Pietrangelo would sign in Montreal . Sorry to burst your bubble but you would go 4 years in a row with over $5M in cap space with your strategy. And Mantha is worth more than $6M. More like $7M.

I'm not afraid over overpaying Mantha $2-3M in his prime years when we need him on wing and we have a large part of our core on ELC/Bridge deals.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Because I am quite sure you can spend your cap in a better way. Even Krug at 8m or Hall at 9m or Pietrangelo at 10m is better (which is already a bad deal IMO) than Mantha at 9.5m. Toffoli is a UFA and could be a fit. Even signing Domi for 6.5m is a better deal than this. I am all for offersheets. For example O/S Sergachev if you want, but not Mantha and not at this price.

I don't know, but it sort of sounds like you just quoted roughly "market value" for those UFAs, in which case why do they choose Montreal over 10 other teams offering that same money? I'm assuming the hope with Mantha is that NOBODY will pay him that much, and that gives him all the incentive necessary to actually sign in Montreal, where those other players are just going to take those same numbers somewhere else?

But it's true, you do also have to have some belief in Mantha as a player to go along with this idea. I think he has another level that he's yet to hit in terms of production. He's better than Toffoli or Domi in my books. That's a relatively "soft" opinion. But I'd for sure add him to my team like this if my team could afford it (we can't).

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Wings have tons of cap space and that's not a problem. Habs have about $10M in cap space if we trade Domi for futures (Sabres for the 8th pick is one example).

Does Yzerman try to low ball his top talent like he did in Tampa? Taxes not the same in Detroit. If Mantha is not happy with the offer from Yzerman, all his agent has to do is call Bergevin.

Offer 1
- 5 years at $9.5M
- If they don't match... 2 Firsts, 1 Second, 1 Third

Offer 2:
- 2 years at $9M. I believe he has 2 RFA years left and he gets to UFA quicker. If the Wings match, Habs can circle back when Mantha becomes UFA in 2 years.
- If they don't match... 2 Firsts, 1 Second, 1 Third

Yzerman's perspective... Trying to rebuild and likely wants Mantha for 7 or 8 years overlapping his rebuild and contention start point. But if Mantha is signed for 2 or 5 years does he consider the futures?

You really going to offer sheet a player on a team with the most cap space in the league? What a joke first off Mantha just purchased a new home so obviously a deal is pretty close. Free agency is still one month away and Mantha will be signed before then so an offer sheet isn't happening. Mantha has stated numerous times that he loves playing in Detroit and want's to play there his entire career. First off the 2 year offer sheet is a joke takes Mantha up to UFA status and he could walk on Montreal so Mantha isn't worth $9m per just yet he had better start putting up 70 to 90 points per season to get that kind of money. As a Wings fan long term i'm not giving him more then 7 x $6.5m or $7 x $7.0m right now he hasn't proven to be worth any more then that.

 

[RationalExpectations]

OK... no problem. Lets say you are right that he is worth $6M only. That $3.5M in cap space is not a problem while you have Suzuki, KK, Romanov, Caufield, Norlinder, Primeau all on ELC/Bridge deals in that 5 year span.

Give your head a shake. We went 3 years in a row with $5M in cap space.

MTL needs a top LHD, a top scoring winger, two offensive depths players, and Mete or another depth D. At the moment the Habs have 12.9m cap space. Assume you get the depth player one at ELC one at 2m, Mete at 1.5m, asssume you gain 2m by buying out Alzner, i.e. you sit on 10.5m cap for a scoring winger and a top LHD, and you went to spend 9.5m of this on what is not a top scoring forward but a top 6 guy with injury history who never reached 50 point in a season ?

I am all for paying 7.5m for Sergachev, no way I'd pay even 6m for Mantha, that is mostly wasted cap space since statistically he won't play more than 75% games.

Look at it another way : a company has a lot of cash and their sharholders want the firm to spend the cash on investment, should the company wait for the proper opportunity or pay a crazy premium on any asset available ?

 

[Habs Halifax]

Remember how much heat Pacioretty took from Habs fans when he was on a $4.5M contract?

This would be essentially the same thing, except he's 2 inches taller, being paid twice as much and cost major future building blocks in comp. What could possibly go wrong?

Different times cause we actually have centers now. It's 2020, not 2012

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

You want to do another Aho situation that don't work? I actually like offer 2 more. 2 years at $9M. If you are worried about going that high, offer him $8.3M and it's one less 1st. But if you come in at $7M, Yzerman says thank you and chuckles like the Canes did. If they match the 2 year deal, Habs can circle back when he becomes UFA.

Go big or go home. And this comes down to how cheap Yzerman is with Mantha on contract extensions.

Dude Mantha just purchased a new home in the Detroit area, So i'm pretty sure he's getting what he wants and Yzerman isn't being cheap. You don't purchase a new home unless a deal is pretty close and you're getting your asking price.

 

[Habs Halifax]

You really going to offer sheet a player on a team with the most cap space in the league? What a joke first off Mantha just purchased a new home so obviously a deal is pretty close. Free agency is still one month away and Mantha will be signed before then so an offer sheet isn't happening. Mantha has stated numerous times that he loves playing in Detroit and want's to play there his entire career. First off the 2 year offer sheet is a joke takes Mantha up to UFA status and he could walk on Montreal so Mantha isn't worth $9m per just yet he had better start putting up 70 to 90 points per season to get that kind of money. As a Wings fan long term i'm not giving him more then 7 x $6.5m or $7 x $7.0m right now he hasn't proven to be worth any more then that.

* Read my first sentence. I already said cap space is not a problem with the Wings.
* Houses can be purchased and sold
* If you sign Mantha before free agency... good for you.

It's an aggressive offer. Didn't expect Wings fans to like it

 

[bobholly39]

OK... no problem. Lets say you are right that he is worth $6M only. That $3.5M in cap space is not a problem while you have Suzuki, KK, Romanov, Caufield, Norlinder, Primeau all on ELC/Bridge deals in that 5 year span.

Give your head a shake. We went 3 years in a row with $5M in cap space. What is your breaking point? The point that it's worth it for the Habs and where Yzerman would not match? Lets see how much of a genius you are

I went high for a reason.

So when Suzuki is due for a contract - do you think he'll accept a 5-6M$ bridge deal after Habs just paid 9.5M$ to a career 48 point winger? Or KK? Or any of the others?

Nobody (certainly not me) is saying we shouldn't use our cap space. This is just such a horrible way of doing so. If you want to throw an extra 3.5M$ out the window - at least do so on an actual star/elite player. Mantha doesn't move the needle for us.

 

[RationalExpectations]

So you do think Krug, Hall, Toffoli, or Pietrangelo would sign in Montreal . Sorry to burst your bubble but you would go 4 years in a row with over $5M in cap space with your strategy. And Mantha is worth more than $6M. More like $7M.

I'm not afraid over overpaying Mantha $2-3M in his prime years when we need him on wing and we have a large part of our core on ELC/Bridge deals.

Not saying they would come to MTL just listing another list of bad ideas and saying Mantha at 9.5 is an even worse idea

Mantha has never reached 50 points on a whole season. He played 67 games in 18/19, 43 games this season. He was not in line with a PPG but closer to 70 points pro rata.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Dude Mantha just purchased a new home in the Detroit area, So i'm pretty sure he's getting what he wants and Yzerman isn't being cheap. You don't purchase a new home unless a deal is pretty close and you're getting your asking price.

Sure. I can help him sell his house if he wants. Calm down... Offer sheet talk is allowed and it's a possibility. 99% of the stuff on these trade boards never happen so chill. It's an aggressive move idea from the Habs.

And stop pretending that Mantha would not like it in Montreal. Wings going to contend in the next 5 years? Doubt that

 

[abo9]

So you do think Krug, Hall, Toffoli, or Pietrangelo would sign in Montreal . Sorry to burst your bubble but you would go 4 years in a row with over $5M in cap space with your strategy. And Mantha is worth more than $6M. More like $7M.

I'm not afraid over overpaying Mantha $2-3M in his prime years when we need him on wing and we have a large part of our core on ELC/Bridge deals.

If Mantha is worth $7M, how much is Gallagher worth ???
Problem is overpaying AND compensating with high draft picks. Do you really think adding Mantha, subbing Domi for an 8th pick makes us a playoff team tomorrow? Unless you have much more planned, those 1sts have a real chance of being 2 lottery picks.

Worst case scenario in 2 years Mantha leaves and... we're back to square 1?

A question about your offers though, why offer less on a years contract? I'd actually be more chill giving 9,5 over 2 years as if it's a flop then at least it's a short term flop...

 

[Hennessy]

Not even in 2020 would any team do this.

 

[Habs Halifax]

So when Suzuki is due for a contract - do you think he'll accept a 5-6M$ bridge deal after Habs just paid 9.5M$ to a career 48 point winger? Or KK? Or any of the others?

Nobody (certainly not me) is saying we shouldn't use our cap space. This is just such a horrible way of doing so. If you want to throw an extra 3.5M$ out the window - at least do so on an actual star/elite player. Mantha doesn't move the needle for us.

Suzuki has to produce first. You deal with that in 2 more years. And I have the cap jumping forward by a lot in 3 years time. Very aggressive move by the Habs yes but it's the right time. Price and Weber still around... young core on ELC/bridge deals. BTW, Weber's $1M salary years are coming... 3 more seasons away.

You keep pretending that we have thrown an extra $3.5M out the window when we had 3 seasons in a row with $5M out the window. Your conservative approach will get the Habs nowhere but another season with $5M+ of cap space. Please don't tell me you think Hall will sign?

 

[Habs Halifax]

You guys are comical. If someone posted a $6.5M offer sheet you would make fun of them for it being too low.

 

[njx9]

Not entirely clear why Mantha, with his injury history, is going to sign a 2 year offer for any reason whatsoever, when he can likely get much better term for slightly less dollars from Yzerman. But, I suppose this is the realm of "we offered it so he has to sign it." In that case, I'll take the picks and just sign him once he hits UFA in two years, if we still need him.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Sure. I can help him sell his house if he wants. Calm down... Offer sheet talk is allowed and it's a possibility. 99% of the stuff on these trade boards never happen so chill. It's an aggressive move idea from the Habs.

And stop pretending that Mantha would not like it in Montreal. Wings going to contend in the next 5 years? Doubt that

Marc Bergevin doesn't even know how to do offer sheets, His $5.3m offer sheet on Sebastian Aho was a royal joke yeah like Carolina wasn't easily going to match that one. He'd be dumb enough to offer Mantha 5 x $6.5m and Yzerman easily matches and says thank you for helping him out here.

 

[RationalExpectations]

Marc Bergevin doesn't even know how to do offer sheets, His $5.3m offer sheet on Sebastian Aho was a royal joke yeah like Carolina wasn't easily going to match that one. He'd be dumb enough to offer Mantha 5 x $6.5m ad Yzerman easily matches and says thank you for helping him out here.

8.5m for Aho I agree it was useless though. Regarding Mantha, he is not worth the proposed O/S, cap space is a scarce resource.

 

[T_Cage]

9.5m a year for an inconsistent scoring winger

I wondered what happened to Jason botterill, guess he posts on HF now...

 

[bobholly39]

Suzuki has to produce first. You deal with that in 2 more years. And I have the cap jumping forward by a lot in 3 years time. Very aggressive move by the Habs yes but it's the right time. Price and Weber still around... young core on ELC/bridge deals.

You keep pretending that we have thrown an extra $3.5M out the window when we had 3 seasons in a row with $5M out the window. Your conservative approach will get the Habs nowhere but another season with $5M+ of cap space. Please don't tell me you think Hall will sign?

Dude you've literally been saying "Hall to Montreal" in almost everyone of your posts all season long lol. Why are you being so hypocritical about that now? No I don't think we will sign Hall and i don't particularly want to either - I've never been that high on him. You're the one whose been saying Hall to Montreal non-stop.

If you want to be aggressive and make use of cap space, let's do it. Let's acquire an extra 1st round pick by virtue of a 1 year cap dump from a team that's strapped. Or let's trade one of Domi/Tatar/Danault/Gallagher in return for a player we can sign long term. Or - yes - let's look at the UFA market and see if anyone is worthy of either a short-term or long-term deal where we overpay (not the strongest crop this year, but there are some good targets).

There's a lot of things we can do with cap space.

If you absolutely want to throw millions upon millions at an RFA more than they're worth - at least target one of the better ones. Such as Barzal, Dubois or even Sergachev.

Personally - i'd be fine taking a cap dump for picks this year - and then try to go super aggressive after RFAs of UFA's next year. Will be a much stronger crop of players. EP, Hughes, Dahlin, Makar, Heisk, etc. I'd pay 4 1st round picks and a crazy high offer sheet for a player that caliber.

I don't want to pay 9.5M$ to a 48 point winger lol. That's insane.

 

[Leafs87]

9.5 for Mantha is crazy talk.

 

[Habs Halifax]

If Mantha is worth $7M, how much is Gallagher worth ???
Problem is overpaying AND compensating with high draft picks. Do you really think adding Mantha, subbing Domi for an 8th pick makes us a playoff team tomorrow? Unless you have much more planned, those 1sts have a real chance of being 2 lottery picks.

Worst case scenario in 2 years Mantha leaves and... we're back to square 1?

A question about your offers though, why offer less on a years contract? I'd actually be more chill giving 9,5 over 2 years as if it's a flop then at least it's a short term flop...

I'm not going to reveal all my strategy here. I've looked into cap projections for the next 3 years and it likely means Tatar and Byron off loaded. It's not a massive problem. And I would be not worried about some of our players getting jealous of what Mantha makes. My plan is to roll 3 lines... I'll let you think about the advantage to that both on the ice and off the ice.

Sure. The 2-5 year term and AAV is not set in stone. This would come in contract talks after Mantha's agent tells us what the offer the Wings have on the table. Then you go from there. But would Yzerman match if the compensation was 1st, 2nd, 3rd? Probably